Is Church necessary?

[Your Brother In Christ]

I do need to clarify what I mean by Church. I'm referring to the common American format.

You have praise and worship, one pastor who preaches a sermon, and congregation that checks there good Christian card every Sunday.

Is this what the Church was supposed to be?

 

[HTacianas]

I do need to clarify what I mean by Church. I'm referring to the common American format.

You have praise and worship, one pastor who preaches a sermon, and congregation that checks there good Christian card every Sunday.

Is this what the Church was supposed to be?

Is that what church is supposed to be? No. That's only someone's recent idea of what church should be.

 

[section9+1]

In a sense, yes. That's basically what you get and a lot of people seem to find virtue in it. Maybe you don't but what does that matter?

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

There are a good number of problems in today's average church and a careful study of the word will show what is to be taught and why. The scriptures talk a bit about our gifts as being different parts of the body and all parts working together as one. Ephesian goes into this a bit and in ch 4 1 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.

This can be achieved in the format you note if it is Biblical in its worship and the teaching is the equipping of the saints and scriptural. Its more the context over the format as to weather it is legit or not.

 

[Greg J.]

There is no one definition for what church can be. You can argue that it should be like we see in Scripture, except there is a gargantuan amount of Scripture about what church was to different Godly groups of people. It the sort of topic that typically one would read at least a dozen contemporary authors' books just to find out what all the issues are (each of whom will have pored over the whole Bible).

A simple answer is that a local church is a local body of followers of Christ with enough in common that they gather together to communally worship God, get to know God better together, love/help each other, and demonstrate God's love to those outside the church.

One overview of "church" can be found in Ephesians 4:11-17:

It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work. So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. (Ephesians 4:11-17, 1984 NIV)

 

[Albion]

I do need to clarify what I mean by Church. I'm referring to the common American format.

You have praise and worship, one pastor who preaches a sermon, and congregation that checks there good Christian card every Sunday.

Is this what the Church was supposed to be?

Well, that is one of many formats and I am not sure that you are correct to describe it as the common American format. If you find it lacking, there are many churches which follow the historic format instead.

 

[Tolworth John]

I do need to clarify what I mean by Church. I'm referring to the common American format.

You have praise and worship, one pastor who preaches a sermon, and congregation that checks there good Christian card every Sunday.

Is this what the Church was supposed to be?

If you don't bother to look below the surface yes that is what church has been for centuaries.

Look at where people are and you'll find those struggling with sickness, low income, divorce, bereavment, childlessness, seek for meaning, searching for God, a real hunger to learn more of God and of course there is the unseen activities ranging from giving lifts, volunteering to help people/charities and the giving of cash and the saying of a great many prayer.

None of this can be seen by just looking at the inside of a church.

Go in and talk to people.

 

[Your Brother In Christ]

There are a good number of problems in today's average church and a careful study of the word will show what is to be taught and why. The scriptures talk a bit about our gifts as being different parts of the body and all parts working together as one. Ephesian goes into this a bit and in ch 4 1 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.

This can be achieved in the format you note if it is Biblical in its worship and the teaching is the equipping of the saints and scriptural. Its more the context over the format as to weather it is legit or not.

That is not to hard to test all we need to do is check it's fruits. According to its size is is producing an equal amount? In my experience, no.

I have visited may churches and found that some for a short time produce as expected but fail when there is a change of leadership, some make a small effort but fall sort do to a lack of conviction in the congregation, but most are cancerous giving people a false sense of "righteousness" and "security" wile failing to equip them to stand on their own.

In truth, I have yet to see a church that can effectively and continuously equip the Saints to walk with God independently of the church, let alone go into the ministry.

 

[Tolworth John]

I should add:-
If none of what I've listed can be found in your church, ask why of the pastor and if no comprehensive demonstration that they do exist is provided, leave.

 

[Your Brother In Christ]

Well, that is one of many formats and I am not sure that you are correct to describe it as the common American format. If you find it lacking, there are many churches which follow the historic format instead.

Then what are those formats that they follow?

 

[section9+1]

I think it's good for a person to be ideologically independent of a church. I feel that I am, so I do not look to a church to define my ideology or my theology. That being said, I seek out church to worship communally with others. It is a good thing to experience and know that you are a part of something that is bigger than yourself and church provides that.

 

[Your Brother In Christ]

Is that what church is supposed to be? No. That's only someone's recent idea of what church should be.

What matters is the fruit, what is it producing? And this format does not easily or effectively produce strong Christians. Most are weak Christians who cannot even study or walk with the Lord without the church bottle feeding them. The question I would have is what would be a more effective format or is this the best there is?

 

[Your Brother In Christ]

I think it's good for a person to be ideologically independent of a church. I feel that I am, so I do not look to a church to define my ideology or my theology. That being said, I seek out church to worship communally with others. It is a good thing to experience and know that you are a part of something that is bigger than yourself and church provides that.

Then what does define your ideology & theology.

 

[HTacianas]

What matters is the fruit, what is it producing? And this format does not easily or effectively produce strong Christians. Most are weak Christians who cannot even study or walk with the Lord without the church bottle feeding them. The question I would have is what would be a more effective format or is this the best there is?

The Divine Liturgy has been working for two thousand years now.

 

[section9+1]

What defines my ideology and theology is my understanding of scripture and the experiences of my life as a Christian.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

It seems that most of the New Testament was written to the ones in the church. It did not seem to mention the stay-at-home ones who practice in their closet.

The best place to fellowship and take communion with others would be in the church.

M-Bob

 

[Your Brother In Christ]

It seems that most of the New Testament was written to the ones in the church. It did not seem to mention the stay-at-home ones who practice in their closet.

The best place to fellowship and take communion with others would be in the church.

M-Bob

Fellowship with fellow Christians is a critical part of any Christian's walk. We are not made to be independent, but co-dependent. Co-dependent with Christ and co-dependent with each other. My main question is this, is the current format in which we find most American churches valid or is it invalid?

 

[Your Brother In Christ]

What defines my ideology and theology is my understanding of scripture and the experiences of my life as a Christian.

Good, then you are further along than most, that is quite a sad statement. But do keep this in mind we are made to be co-dependent with each other and the best defence against heresy is a bunch of Christians who read the Bible daily.

 

[Your Brother In Christ]

The Divine Liturgy has been working for two thousand years now.

No, the Divine Liturgy is a perfect example of stagnation. I was referring to something living.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Many seem very valid.

We prefer teachings in
the Reformed Church.

M-Bob