Is Christianity patriarchal...? Why/why not? (Moved from General Politics)

[StarryEyedShoeGazer]

The question is self explanatory.

 

[redleghunter]

The question is self explanatory.

Patriarchal in the post modern sense or Biblical sense?

 

[PloverWing]

Christianity developed within a patriarchal culture, and we see some of those cultural assumptions in some of the early Christian writings. However, Christianity itself does not need to be patriarchal. In fact, we see in the New Testament writings some ways that Jesus and early Christians broke away from the patriarchy of their culture, moving instead towards a community in which Christians are commanded to love their neighbors as themselves.

 

[JackRT]

Christianity developed within a patriarchal culture, and we see some of those cultural assumptions in some of the early Christian writings. However, Christianity itself does not need to be patriarchal. In fact, we see in the New Testament writings some ways that Jesus and early Christians broke away from the patriarchy of their culture, moving instead towards a community in which Christians are commanded to love their neighbors as themselves.

I agree that the very early church was largely gender blind but within a century of the crucifixion patriarchy had re-established itself. It is only in the past few centuries that patriarchy has entered its death throes. However, many within Christianity will continue to resist to the point that they will become quite marginalized.

 

[MoonlessNight]

Christianity recognizes that there are inherent differences between men and women, and that due to this men are suited for some roles that women are not and vice versa. I suppose whether you call this "patriarchal" is up to your interpretation.

If you are referring to the priesthood, then yes in Christianity the priesthood is restricted to men. This is largely due to Christians not believing that they know more than God. Jesus selected only male apostles to serve as the first bishops, despite the existence of priestesses in contemporary religions and despite some of the more prominent of His followers being female. I guess you can argue that He was restricted in His choice due to the history of a male priesthood in Judaism, but that history was due to the law that God Himself gave to Moses so such an argument would in effect be arguing that God wasn't able to choose to allow women to be priests because He himself had set up a precedent that prevented it. In light of God's eternity this viewpoint is absurd, so Christianity has come down on the side of a male priesthood.

 

[StarryEyedShoeGazer]

Patriarchal in the post modern sense or Biblical sense?

Either or both.

 

[redleghunter]

Either or both.

Biblically as per God's design men are to be head of the household yet are equals in union with their wife. For example Paul says the woman owns the husband and the husband the wife (1 Corinthians 7:4). It's a complementarian relationship.

As we see in the pastoral epistles of Paul men are elders and deacons. That does not exclude women from ministry in the church in many other functions.

That could be called patriarchal although women had such a vital and energetic presence in the NT church. To which as children of God there is no distinction as we see in Galatians 3:28

The difference between our post modern version of patriarchy and the NT is now anything considered male dominated is to be resisted in our society. That's because in the worldly view both men and women look to "roles" as something oppressive.

Whereas in the Biblical sense according to God's design from the beginning man and woman were made in God's image and according to His likeness. It's a complimentary relationship from the beginning.

 

[FireDragon76]

In the past I would say that is true, however there are more than a few denominations today that reject excluding women from ordained ministry on doctrinal grounds, and reject the notion that men and women are essentially different as human beings.

 

[Paidiske]

If you are referring to the priesthood, then yes in Christianity the priesthood is restricted to men. This is largely due to Christians not believing that they know more than God. Jesus selected only male apostles to serve as the first bishops, despite the existence of priestesses in contemporary religions and despite some of the more prominent of His followers being female. I guess you can argue that He was restricted in His choice due to the history of a male priesthood in Judaism, but that history was due to the law that God Himself gave to Moses so such an argument would in effect be arguing that God wasn't able to choose to allow women to be priests because He himself had set up a precedent that prevented it. In light of God's eternity this viewpoint is absurd, so Christianity has come down on the side of a male priesthood.

Not all denominations restrict the priesthood (or diaconate or episcopate) to men. Some of us recognise that God calls whom He wills, men and women both, and that this is a good and healthy thing for the church.

Calling women who are priests "priestesses" is inaccurate and an insult. It would be polite (and avoid running foul of CF's flaming/goading rules) to avoid that term. (Edit: sorry, I read more carefully and just realised you only used that term of pagans. People often call women who are Christian priests "priestesses," and it's a bugbear of mine).

To answer the OP, Christianity does not have to be patriarchal, but as it has generally been lived out in patriarchal cultures, it is very difficult for us to ignore or remove all patriarchal elements of thought and practice now. Gradually we are overcoming the most harmful.

 

[Tallguy88]

Not all denominations restrict the priesthood (or diaconate or episcopate) to men. Some of us recognise that God calls whom He wills, men and women both, and that this is a good and healthy thing for the church.

Calling women who are priests "priestesses" is inaccurate and an insult. It would be polite (and avoid running foul of CF's flaming/goading rules) to avoid that term. (Edit: sorry, I read more carefully and just realised you only used that term of pagans. People often call women who are Christian priests "priestesses," and it's a bugbear of mine).

To answer the OP, Christianity does not have to be patriarchal, but as it has generally been lived out in patriarchal cultures, it is very difficult for us to ignore or remove all patriarchal elements of thought and practice now. Gradually we are overcoming the most harmful.

Priestess is the feminine form of priest. Why is that offensive?

 

[FireDragon76]

Priestess is the feminine form of priest. Why is that offensive?

Because "priest" is the accepted term in our denominations, priestess is not.

 

[PloverWing]

Priestess is the feminine form of priest. Why is that offensive?

To my ears, it suggests 1) that female priests aren't real priests, they're a different category of clergy and 2) that female priests are a pagan intrusion into Christianity, because of the association of the word "priestess" with assorted pagan religions.

If we're going to ordain women to the priesthood, it's important that we agree that it's really the full, genuine priesthood, just like the ordination men receive. (I do acknowledge that this is something that your church and mine disagree on. But this underlying belief is why the language is important.)

 

[Tallguy88]

Because "priest" is the accepted term in our denominations, priestess is not.

Priest is a male term. Priestess is the female term.

 

[PloverWing]

Priest is a male term. Priestess is the female term.

In our tradition, "priest" is a gender-neutral term, and "priestess" is a female-specific term.

 

[PloverWing]

Mercifully, no one has suggested "bishopess" yet.

 

[compassion 4 humanity]

The question is self explanatory.

You didn't post any scripture from the New Testament which substantiates the claim that Christianity is patriarchal. You are tacitly implying that Christianity is anti-women. If you can find one Bible verse in the Gospels or anywhere in the New Testament that is hostile towards women and supports the ridiculous concept that men should rule over women, please do so. Hint: no such scripture exists.

 

[Paidiske]

Priest is a male term. Priestess is the female term.

Nope. I am a priest in the Church of God, not a priestess. Priest is, in Christian practice, the term for men and women ordained to the presbyterate.

You didn't post any scripture from the New Testament which substantiates the claim that Christianity is patriarchal. You are tacitly implying that Christianity is anti-women. If you can find one Bible verse in the Gospels or anywhere in the New Testament that is hostile towards women and supports the ridiculous concept that men should rule over women, please do so. Hint: no such scripture exists.

I can find you a whole stack that routinely get interpreted that way...

 

[MoonlessNight]

Mercifully, no one has suggested "bishopess" yet.

Pretty sure that I saw that term used in an anime once.

 

[Ringo84]

It traditionally has been, but I think it's mostly moved past the old fashioned "women should remain silent" stuff. It seems that fewer Christians believe that, and I'm glad for that. Who's to say that God can't speak through a woman?
Ringo

 

[LaSorcia]

MOD HAT ON

The topic of this thread is more appropriate for General Theology, so it has been moved.

MOD HAT OFF