Is "Christian Zionism" Biblical ?

[parousia70]

About the Law of Moses: I think it is very clear from Paul that the Law of Moses is no longer in force. I also believe that Jesus strongly implied that the Law of Moses was coming to an end.

Indeed... according to scripture It was "about to vanish" in the 1st century, and indeed came to its firey end in AD 66-70

And, yes, I am aware of Matthew 5:18 - I am prepared to argue that Jesus is using a figure of speech that has generally been misunderstood.

It would have to be, since every Jot and Tittle of the law is now passed.

 

[BABerean2]

Again to the question of the faith of those who founded the modern State of Israel.
Were these men of strong faith or politicians?

Here we will look at the first Prime Minister of the nation, David Ben-Gurion.

David Ben-Gurion - Wikipedia

"Religious parties and status quo
In order to prevent the coalescence of the religious right, the Hisdadrut agreed to a vague "status quo" agreement with Mizrahi in 1935.
Ben Gurion was aware that world Jewry could and would only feel comfortable to throw their support behind the nascent state, if it was shrouded with religious mystique. That would include an orthodox tacit acquiescence to the entity. Therefore, in September 1947 Ben-Gurion decided to reach a status quo formal agreement with the Orthodox Agudat Yisrael party. He sent a letter to Agudat Yisrael stating that while being committed to establishing a non-theocratic state with freedom of religion, he promised that the Shabbat would be Israel's official day of rest, that in state-provided kitchens there would be access to Kosher food, that every effort would be made to provide a single jurisdiction for Jewish family affairs, and that each sector would be granted autonomy in the sphere of education, provided minimum standards regarding the curriculum be observed.[43]
To a large extent this letter (or agreement) provided the framework for religious affairs in Israel till the present day, and is often used as a benchmark regarding the arrangement of religious affairs in Israel.
Though supportive of Zionism, David also described himself as an irreligious person who developed atheism in his youth and who demonstrated no great sympathy for the elements of traditional Judaism, though he quoted the Bible extensively in his speeches and writings.[44]
Modern Orthodox philosopher Yeshayahu Leibowitz considered Ben-Gurion "to have hated Judaism more than any other man he had met".[45]
In later time, Ben-Gurion refused to define himself as "secular," and he regarded himself a believer in God. In a 1970 interview, he described himself as a pantheist, and stated that "I don't know if there's an afterlife. I think there is."[46] During an interview with the Leftist weekly Hotam two years before his death, he revealed, "I too have a deep faith in the Almighty. I believe in one God, the omnipotent Creator. My consciousness is aware of the existence of material and spirit . . . [But] I cannot understand how order reigns in nature, in the world and universe – unless there exists a superior force. This supreme Creator is beyond my comprehension . . . but it directs everything."[47]
In a letter to the writer Eliezer Steinman, he wrote "Today, more than ever, the 'religious' tend to relegate Judaism to observing dietary laws and preserving the Sabbath. This is considered religious reform. I prefer the Fifteenth Psalm, lovely are the psalms of Israel. The Shulchan Aruch is a product of our nation's life in the Exile. It was produced in the Exile, in conditions of Exile. A nation in the process of fulfilling its every task, physically and spiritually . . . must compose a 'New Shulchan'--and our nation's intellectuals are required, in my opinion, to fulfill their responsibility in this."[47]"

 

[BABerean2]

We have already connected the famous Rothschild banking dynasty to the establishment of the modern State of Israel in the well known Balfour Declaration, which was a correspondence between Lord Rothschild and the British government.


Now we will take a look at the Israeli Parliament building designed, and financed by the Rothschild family.

Does this building represent the remnant of 7,000 who were faithful to God, or does it represent those who bowed down to the image of Baal? (Romans 11:2-5)

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[Shempster]

I realize this is a touchy subject but it shouldn't be.
I see Israel as a continuous focal point of the entire bible. We know that the Father sees Israel as an organized country and people. Even as generations come and go and other ethnic blood is introduced into the population that He still considers Israel the apple of His eye and will not always forsake them.

Now, as for modern Israel, you have to remember that the vast majority of Israels population is rather secular and prefers to ignore religion. Another ugly thing is that the government regularly shoots and bombs Palestinians in various areas especially Gaza. Yes, they are responding to Palestinian rockets but most of them are intercepted where all Israeli rockets hit their targets with much more destruction. If you have not seen the condition of the Gaza strip today you should. Much prayer is needed.
The point is that for the most part, Israel is still in a state of divorce from God, but I think it is very clear that He will prove who He is to Israel and many will come to Him.

So I suppose we should mentally support them as a group, but condoning violence is why liberal-minded folks oppose the US supporting Israel. The Palestinian issue has got to be the most volatile issue in the world right now. But you also have to remember that the majority of citizens on both sides are just good people who want to raise their families in peace and safety. It is the leadership calling the shots.

 

[BABerean2]

I realize this is a touchy subject but it shouldn't be.
I see Israel as a continuous focal point of the entire bible. We know that the Father sees Israel as an organized country and people. Even as generations come and go and other ethnic blood is introduced into the population that He still considers Israel the apple of His eye and will not always forsake them.

The nation of Israel has always been made up of at least two different groups of people.
There were those Israelites who were faithful to God and those who turned from God.
We find Paul writing about this in Romans 11:1-5.
There were those Israelites who bowed down to Baal, and a remnant of 7,000 Israelites who remained faithful. Paul said the same was true during his time.
The same is true today.

God promised a New Covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13. It is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:18-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.
On the Day of Pentecost Peter addressed the crowd as "men of Judea", then as "men of Israel" in in Acts 2:36 as "all the house of Israel". On that day about 3,000 Israelites accepted the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31 and spoken by Christ at the Last Supper in Matthew 26:28.

The most important genealogy in the Bible is found in Matthew 1:1. This is confirmed by Paul in Galatians 3:16. Christ is the One Seed to who the Abrahamic promise was made, instead of the many seeds.

I have heard many Christians say the following..." The Jews are still God's chosen people."
The problem is that John the Baptist told his own people not to make that statement in the verse below.

Mat 3:9　 and do not think to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.　


We also find below a warning from Timothy about endless genealogies.

1Ti 1:4　 nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith.


God does not now judge people based on their DNA, but by a relationship with His Son.


1Jn 2:22　 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.　
1Jn 2:23　 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.　

　
There is now no difference between a naked native living in the Amazon Rain Forest and a modern descendant of Jacob living in the modern State of Israel.

They both need Christ for the same reason and in the same way, as revealed by the New Testament writers.

Below we find the words of the Son of God.

Joh 10:16　 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.　

.

 

[BABerean2]

Is war one of the fruits of Christian Zionsim?

Consider the following, based on New Testament scripture.

 

[BABerean2]

If you think modern Talmudic Judaism is just a "sister-religion" to Christianity, take a look at the rabbi's reaction to those sharing the Gospel with Jews.

The Babylonian Talmud is now the accepted source of truth in most synagogues around the world.
If you want to know what the Talmud says about Christ, read the book "Jesus in the Talmud", by Dr. Peter Schafer (who is Jewish).

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[SeventyOne]

Chromosome #1 is definitely included within the text, as well as the others to make a total of 23 pairs.
Twenty-three come from the mother and twenty-three more from the father, to make a total of 46 chromosomes.

You get a copy of chromosome #1 from your mother and another copy of chromosome #1 from your father.

At least that is what my college genetics professor would say about any ancient text which refers to human genealogy.

.

No kidding. This is why your question was silly. God said they would be Jews, so they will be Jews. Again, if you have a problem with that go ask Him. Quit asking me to explain how God defines something that He doesn't expound on.

Pointless.

 

[SeventyOne]

Well then you have a very odd idea of Just who IS Israel.

You count the disobedient sons of Abraham as "Israel" while discounting entirely the faithful sons of Abraham!

The mark of faithful obedience was so central to the identity of God's chosen Israel, that most major figures of the New Testament preached concerning who is reckoned as a true Israelite.

The point scripture makes is that God already saved natural Israel by saving the obedient sons of Abraham and cutting off the disobedient sons. The early Christians were Hebrews of the tribes of Israel, and they were the obedient sons. God saved "All Israel" by saving them. The same way ALL ISRAEL (the Believing remnant) was saved from the Wilderness with Moses, and ALL ISRAEL (the believing remnant) entered the Promised land.

Do we count the continuation of Physical Israel through the Wicked sons who were slain in the wilderness or through the Faithful Remnant who survived to enter the Promised Land?

St. Paul said that when the nation was in mass apostasy, the TRUE Israel was carried on not through the lineages of the wicked sons but rather through the OBEDIENT FEW (called the "remnant"), such as was true in Isaiah's day (Romans 9:27-29) and Elijah's day (Romans 11:3-5).

Peter says the same thing at Acts 3:22-24, where it is clear that the wicked jews who refuse Christ were to be "cut off from among the People of Israel" while the faithful jews (John the Baptist, Joseph and Mary, the Twelve, the Seventy, the three thousand on Pentecost day, and many other jews) were the True Faithful Israel.

Just as the Jewish church abode with Moses in the wilderness (Acts 7:37-38), so Jesus had HIS jewish church (Mt. 16:18-19). And within a few years after Pentecost, the faithful Israel learned how to start accepting both jewish and also gentile followers from all over the empire to convert into their Nation (1 Peter 2:9-10; Mt 21:40-45). And so the tiny remnant True Israel grew into a worldwide Judaism living under the promised NEW covenant of Israel's Messiah.

And so it was also in Moses' day, when the countless thousands of wicked sons of Abraham were slain in the wilderness while the faithful sons of Abraham survived and got to enter the Promised Land.

We must NEVER count the continuation of Israel through the wicked sons but rather always through the faithful remnant!

Did you get that?

We must NEVER count the continuation of Israel through the wicked sons but rather always through the faithful remnant!

Scripture makes it clear that any individual can join him/herself to Christ's Israel via obedience to Messiah and His New Covenant. But there is no longer a "natural Israel," for no human on earth today knows if he/she has any genetic link to any Hebrew of bible times. Indeed today the likelyhood that everyone on earth has some Abrahamic DNA in them is 100%. However, The tribal-family system went extinct nearly 2000 years ago, at God's perfect timing when Messiah came. Once Messiah came, there was no longer any need for a racial link to father Abraham, and so the family tribes assimilated into the surrounding populations. Israel of the Messiah didn't require racial preference, and so that ancestral link was completely, forever, dissolved and passed away in human history.

Finally, in real historic terms, that means that the Nazarene Jewish sect (Acts 24:5) was the only one that survived AD 70. All the other sects---Sadducees, Essenes, Pharisees, Zealots--were destroyed and went extinct at AD 70. This is historic reality, as Jewish and secular histories admit. And it is quite remarkable that what saved the Nazarenes was their NEW covenant teaching that taught them to prepare to detach from animal sacrifices, the Temple, physical circumcision, and the priestly class of Aaron. The jews who did this survived AD 70 while the ones who clung to a salvation via the Old Covenant were all wiped out. They were ground to powder by the Chief Cornerstone, when the Lord of the Vineyard came and destroyed them. (Matthew 21:33-45)

Amazing history.

This is that covenantal theology blind spot that's so prevalent. There is more than one thing going on in the scripture in parallel to each other. One pertains to the Church, and the other to national Israel. Until you can understand that, there's no way for us to communicate with one another on this topic.

 

[SeventyOne]

We always get ourselves into trouble when we view the New Testament through the Old Testament, instead of vice-versa.

David was most certainly the greatest king in the history of ancient Israel.
However, we must remember that he was a man.
He was guilty of adultery and conspired to have Uriah killed so that he could have Uriah's wife. In that regard, he is a sinner just like us.

Is the passage above referring to David or to David's offspring, Jesus of Nazareth?

If we do a search on the name "David" in the New Testament, what do we find?

Mat_1:1 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham: (Here we find the most important genealogy in the Bible, based on the words of Paul in Galatians 3:16.)

Mat_1:6 and Jesse begot David the king. David the king begot Solomon by her who had been the wife of Uriah.

Mat_1:17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations.

Mat_1:20 But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.

Mat_9:27 When Jesus departed from there, two blind men followed Him, crying out and saying, "Son of David, have mercy on us!"

Mat_12:3 But He said to them, "Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him:

Mat_12:23 And all the multitudes were amazed and said, "Could this be the Son of David?"

Mat_15:22 And behold, a woman of Canaan came from that region and cried out to Him, saying, "Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David! My daughter is severely demon-possessed."

Mat_20:30 And behold, two blind men sitting by the road, when they heard that Jesus was passing by, cried out, saying, "Have mercy on us, O Lord, Son of David!"

Mat_20:31 Then the multitude warned them that they should be quiet; but they cried out all the more, saying, "Have mercy on us, O Lord, Son of David!"

Mat_21:9 Then the multitudes who went before and those who followed cried out, saying: "Hosanna to the Son of David! 'BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!' Hosanna in the highest!"

Mat_21:15 But when the chief priests and scribes saw the wonderful things that He did, and the children crying out in the temple and saying, "Hosanna to the Son of David!" they were indignant

Mat_22:42 saying, "What do you think about the Christ? Whose Son is He?" They said to Him, "The Son of David."

Mat_22:43 He said to them, "How then does David in the Spirit call Him 'LORD,' saying:

Mat_22:45 If David then calls Him 'LORD,' how is He his Son?"

Mar_2:25 But He said to them, "Have you never read what David did when he was in need and hungry, he and those with him:

Mar_10:47 And when he heard that it was Jesus of Nazareth, he began to cry out and say, "Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me!"

Mar_10:48 Then many warned him to be quiet; but he cried out all the more, "Son of David, have mercy on me!"

Mar_11:10 Blessed is the kingdom of our father David That comes in the name of the Lord! Hosanna in the highest!"

Mar_12:35 Then Jesus answered and said, while He taught in the temple, "How is it that the scribes say that the Christ is the Son of David?

Mar_12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Spirit: 'THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD, "SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND, TILL I MAKE YOUR ENEMIES YOUR FOOTSTOOL." '

Mar_12:37 Therefore David himself calls Him 'LORD'; how is He then his Son?" And the common people heard Him gladly.

Luk_1:27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. The virgin's name was Mary.

Luk_1:32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David.

Luk_1:69 And has raised up a horn of salvation for us In the house of His servant David,

Luk_2:4 Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and lineage of David,

Luk_2:11 For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

Luk_3:31 the son of Melea, the son of Menan, the son of Mattathah, the son of Nathan, the son of David,

Luk_6:3 But Jesus answering them said, "Have you not even read this, what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him:

Luk_18:38 And he cried out, saying, "Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me!"

Luk_18:39 Then those who went before warned him that he should be quiet; but he cried out all the more, "Son of David, have mercy on me!"

Luk_20:41 And He said to them, "How can they say that the Christ is the Son of David?

Luk_20:42 Now David himself said in the Book of Psalms: 'THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD, " SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,

Luk_20:44 Therefore David calls Him 'LORD'; how is He then his Son?"

Joh_7:42 Has not the Scripture said that the Christ comes from the seed of David and from the town of Bethlehem, where David was?"

Act_1:16 "Men and brethren, this Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus;

Act_2:25 For David says concerning Him: 'I FORESAW THE LORD ALWAYS BEFORE MY FACE, FOR HE IS AT MY RIGHT HAND, THAT I MAY NOT BE SHAKEN.

Act_2:29 "Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.

Act_2:34 "For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: 'THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD, "SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,

Act_4:25 who by the mouth of Your servant David have said: 'WHY DID THE NATIONS RAGE, AND THE PEOPLE PLOT VAIN THINGS?

Act_7:45 which our fathers, having received it in turn, also brought with Joshua into the land possessed by the Gentiles, whom God drove out before the face of our fathers until the days of David,

Act_13:22 And when He had removed him, He raised up for them David as king, to whom also He gave testimony and said, 'I HAVE FOUND DAVID THE SON OF JESSE, A MAN AFTER MY OWN HEART, WHO WILL DO ALL MY WILL.'

Act_13:34 And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, He has spoken thus: 'I WILL GIVE YOU THE SURE MERCIES OF DAVID.'

Act_13:36 "For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell asleep, was buried with his fathers, and saw corruption;

Act_15:16 'AFTER THIS I WILL RETURN AND WILL REBUILD THE TABERNACLE OF DAVID, WHICH HAS FALLEN DOWN; I WILL REBUILD ITS RUINS, AND I WILL SET IT UP;

Rom_1:3 concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh,

Rom_4:6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

Rom_11:9 And David says: "LET THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP, A STUMBLING BLOCK AND A RECOMPENSE TO THEM.

2Ti_2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ, of the seed of David, was raised from the dead according to my gospel,

Heb_4:7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, "TODAY," after such a long time, as it has been said: "TODAY, IF YOU WILL HEAR HIS VOICE, DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS."

Heb_11:32 And what more shall I say? For the time would fail me to tell of Gideon and Barak and Samson and Jephthah, also of David and Samuel and the prophets:

Rev_3:7 "And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write, 'These things says He who is holy, He who is true, "HE WHO HAS THE KEY OF DAVID, HE WHO OPENS AND NO ONE SHUTS, AND SHUTS AND NO ONE OPENS":

Rev_5:5 But one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals."

Rev_22:16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star."



When it comes to any "forever" land promise on this earth, we must remember that a day is coming when this rotten, sin-cursed world is going to be burned up and dissolved, based on 2 Peter 3:10-13.

We find in Hebrews 11:16 that Abraham was looking for a heavenly country and city.
I am looking for the same thing.

The covenant of peace mentioned in the passage was revealed by David's offspring at the Last Supper. In 2 Corinthians 3:6-8 Paul contrasts it to the "ministry of death written and engraved on stones", which is the Old Covenant. This New Covenant is the marriage covenant of which we are a part. It is celebrated each time we commemorate the Last Supper. We find in Hebrews 13:20 that it is the "everlasting" covenant.

Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


We know from the New Testament that Christ is the temple. He said so in His own words.
He is now the sanctuary.


Joh_2:19 Jesus answered and said to them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."

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To answer your question, it's pertaining to David. The Lord is speaking in the first person "I", while talking about David in the third person and as His servant. Plus there is no offspring of David anywhere in the context.

So, it's David.

 

[SeventyOne]

But that is not what the text says! Again, when people gloss over what the text actually says, the alarm bells go off. Once again, note how specific the author is to the effect that the Gentile was an outsider relative to the covenant promises but is now an equal partner with the Jew:

remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off [j]have been brought near [k]by the blood of Christ

And then the author goes on to affirm that the Jew and the Gentile can be thought of as one person. How, then, can we talk of Jew-only promises.

You are not dealing with the text - it refers specifically to the covenant and its promises and clearly says the Gentile is as much a beneficiary as the Jew. You cannot, legitimately, anyway "spiritualize" this important point away.


You are correct that Paul sees all believers as a new "Israel" where both Jews and Gentiles are welcome. But I am certainly not assuming that God is done with physical Israel. It is Paul (or whoever wrote Ephesians 2) who says there are no covenant promises for which the Gentile is not a beneficiary. Your issue is with Paul, not me.

I don't know how many ways to explain it to you. I've already addressed this. I'm done addressing it now.

 

[BABerean2]

No kidding. This is why your question was silly. God said they would be Jews, so they will be Jews. Again, if you have a problem with that go ask Him. Quit asking me to explain how God defines something that He doesn't expound on.

Pointless.

It is clearly found defined in God's Word.

The most important genealogy in the Bible is found in the first verse of the New Testament.

Mat 1:1　 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.


This is confirmed below by Paul, who said that the promises made to Abraham were made only to Christ.

　
Gal 3:16　 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.　



Paul said below that we are Abraham's seed, through Christ.


Gal 3:29　 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.　



John the Baptist warned his own people not to say they were Abraham's seed.
Why would we do what he warned should not be done.

Mat 3:9　 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.　



Paul reveals below who are truly Jews.

Rom 2:28　 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:　
Rom 2:29　 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.　



Below Timothy gives a specific warning about genealogy.

1Ti 1:4　 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
　

The New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is found fulfilled by Christ in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is about Grace, instead of Race.
It has made the Old Covenant "obsolete" (Hebrews 8:13), and is "everlasting" (Hebrews 13:20).
There is no other way of salvation, outside of the New Covenant Church.
This is confirmed by those under the Blood of the Lamb in Revelation 12:11.

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[parousia70]

This is that covenantal theology blind spot that's so prevalent. There is more than one thing going on in the scripture in parallel to each other. One pertains to the Church, and the other to national Israel. Until you can understand that, there's no way for us to communicate with one another on this topic.

Show me ANY scripture that teaches that during times of apostasy, the continuation of Israel is NOT to be counted through the obedient faithful sons and instead IS ONLY to be counted through the disobedient, unfaithful ones, and I will begin to consider your argument as one that is scriptural. Otherwise I'll be forced to conclude that what you teach on the subject can not be found in scripture.

I have shown the scriptures that fully support my assertion that The continuation of Israel must never be counted through the unfaithful sons but only through the faithful believing ones. You are welcome to take the Scriptures I cited and show us why they don't mean what I contend they do, if you can.

 

[BABerean2]

When modern Christians say... "We must support Israel", which of the following people are they supporting?

Very few Christians have any idea of what is taught in the Talmud, which is used as a source of truth by Orthodox rabbis.

Mat_15:3　 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

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[BABerean2]

I have heard many pastors speak of the "miracle" of the Six Day War, when the modern State of Israel regained control of Jerusalem.

I have never heard these same pastors mention the fact that during the same week, on June 8, 1967, the Israeli Defense Force attacked an American ship in International Waters, killing 34 of our sailors.

Is was a miracle that the ship did not sink after being hit with a torpedo.

Judge the following based only on the words of the men who survived the attack.

After the incident the Israelis threatened to charge President Lyndon Johnson with "Blood Libel" (anti-Semitism).

Most Americans have never heard of the attack, because there was an effort to keep the truth of the incident from the people. Spouses of the dead and the survivors were told not to speak of the attack.

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[BABerean2]

One of Hell's greatest hoaxes upon the Church is related to the modern State of Israel, according to the message below by Pastor Chuck Baldwin.

This man is a former Dispensationalist who has come under tremendous personal attack after he abandoned the doctrine.

At time 37:00 is an interview with Rabbi Yisrael Dovid Weiss from "Jews Against Zionism", who speaks against modern Zionism.

 

[Another Lazarus]

The real Biblical Hebrew were the Black Slaves

 

[Another Lazarus]

There is also a tremendous amount of politics involved in all of this.

Does politics involve too regarding the real Jews:
The real Biblical Hebrew were the Black Slaves

The Hebrew role in Israel was "over" after Messiah birthed and crucified.
Its Askhenazi Zionism who brought the Khazarian Jews/Askhenazi to Israel,
which will later bring the antichrist to rule at the FINAL WEEK.
This Final Week = 7 years of Grief Tribulation.

Rothschild Horror Picture Show Global Research Project.com

 

[BABerean2]

Does politics involve too regarding the real Jews:
The real Biblical Hebrew were the Black Slaves

What did Paul say about who is a real Jew?

Rom 2:28　 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh;　
Rom 2:29　 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.　


What about the 70th week of Daniel?
What did the angel Gabriel say?


Was the Gospel taken "first" to the Jews for about 3 1/2 years during the earthly ministry of Christ?
Was the Gospel taken to the Jews through Stephen and the other Apostles before it was taken to the Gentiles?
Did at least 3 years go by before Paul took the message to the Gentiles?

Gal 1:17　 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.　
Gal_1:18　 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and remained with him fifteen days.


Nobody can deny that the Gospel was taken to the Jews during a period of time before it was taken to the Gentiles.
For those who say we cannot prove it was a seven year time period, we would say you cannot prove it was not a period of seven years.

The covenant with the many in Daniel 9:27 is the same covenant with the many in Matthew 26:28.
Acts 10:38 and Hebrews 10:16-18 proved that Daniel 9:24 was accomplished during the ministry of Christ.
Since the New Covenant had already been promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, why would we think the angel Gabriel forgot to mention the New Covenant?

The following comes from the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America.

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Daniel 9:27

And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

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The only way to see the 70th week of Daniel is with a time machine set to return you to the first century.
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[BABerean2]

Modern Judaism, based on the opinions of rabbis found in the Babylonian Talmud, vs. the Old Testament:

The Babylonian Talmud says that Jesus is the illegitimate child of Mary and a Roman soldier.