Is "Christian Zionism" an Oxymoron?

jgr

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^_^ How are you coming up with 10% ? It is 100% because a person cannot be a dispensationalist without dividing history up as I wrote.
How many of these?

Pretrib rapture, disembodied 70th week, futurized antichrist, futurized tribulation, parenthetic church, Israel separate from Church, postponed kingdom of heaven, kingdom of heaven separate from kingdom of God, old covenant prophecies not all fulfilled in Christ, literalized prophecies
 
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God bless Joshua

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Jesus has confirmed there is no need for 3rd Temple till the end of this present world thus no need for any nation of OT HEBREW

Matt 24:2 I tell you the truth, they will be completely demolished. Not one stone will be left on top of another!
==============================
Ezekiel 36:
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

10 And I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, even all of it: and the cities shall be inhabited, and the ruins shall be rebuilt.

The above prophecy made by Ezekiel during Hebrew captivity in Babylon has been fulfilled with the decree of Cyrus, ending their 70 years captivity and returning them to rebuild Jerusalem.
 
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redleghunter

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What dispensational doctrines do you reject?
That's kind of the issue. There are many in Christian History who taught in dispensations. One being St Augustine:

The wide range opened up by this question may be seen by any one who is competent and careful to observe the contrast between the beautiful and the suitable, examples of which are scattered, we may say, throughout the universe. For the beautiful, to which the ugly and deformed is opposed, is estimated and praised according to what it is in itself. But the suitable, to which the incongruous is opposed, depends on something else to which it is bound, and is estimated not according to what it is in itself, but according to that with which it is connected: the contrast, also, between becoming and unbecoming is either the same, or at least regarded as the same. Now apply what we have said to the subject in hand. The divine institution of sacrificewas suitable in the former dispensation, but is not suitable now. For the change suitable to the present age has been enjoined by God, who knowsinfinitely better than man what is fitting for every age, and who is, whether He give or add, abolish or curtail, increase or diminish, the unchangeable Governor as He is the unchangeable Creator of mutable things, ordering all events in His providence until the beauty of the completed course of time, the component parts of which are the dispensations adapted to each successive age, shall be finished, like the grand melody of some ineffably wise master of song, and those pass into the eternal immediate contemplation of God who here, though it is a time of faith, not of sight, are acceptably worshipping Him. (Letter 138 (A.D. 412)

CHURCH FATHERS: Letter 138 (St. Augustine)



A dispensation is how God deals with mankind in covenants. As noted above Augustine taught such as well.

The eschatology of some like Walvood and Ryrie show another dispensation yet to come focused on the time of Jacob's trouble the ensuing tribulation which will be focused on the ethnic people of Israel as they become acquainted with Messiah Jesus of Nazareth.

They get this idea from yet to be fulfilled OT prophecies which clearly note a physical Israel tied with a physical land and kingdom.

For example, we as Christians take the following literally:

Luke 4: KJV

16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,


18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.


20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

21 And he began to say unto them,
This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

The above coming from Isaiah 61. Notice where Jesus stops in Luke 4 and what follows after yet to be fulfilled in the remainder of chapter 61: (Jesus said was fulfilled in purple)

Isaiah 61 King James Version (KJV)
61 The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord
, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified.

4 And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.

5 And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.

6 But ye shall be named the Priests of the Lord: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.

7 For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them.

8 For I the Lord love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.

9 And their seed shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people: all that see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the seed which the Lord hath blessed.

10 I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

11 For as the earth bringeth forth her bud, and as the garden causeth the things that are sown in it to spring forth; so the Lord God will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.(KJV)

Notice the remainder of verse 2 through the end of the chapter and following yet to be fulfilled.

God is not finished with His chosen people as Paul makes clear in Romans 11.

To dispel another rumor, the same Grace we are saved by the Israelites will also be saved. Even if a remnant (Romans 11).

Revelation is a Hebrew story after chapter 3. The church is no longer mentioned.

The debate should be who will lead the tribulation Israel to Christ? Some say the church, some say those raised up by God. (Revelation 7 & 14).

I gather that would include another dispensation or dealing God has with mankind.
 
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redleghunter

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Jesus has confirmed there is no need for 3rd Temple till the end of this present world thus no need for any nation of OT HEBREW

Matt 24:2 I tell you the truth, they will be completely demolished. Not one stone will be left on top of another!
==============================
Ezekiel 36:
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

10 And I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, even all of it: and the cities shall be inhabited, and the ruins shall be rebuilt.

The above prophecy made by Ezekiel during Hebrew captivity in Babylon has been fulfilled with the decree of Cyrus, ending their 70 years captivity and returning them to rebuild Jerusalem.
That would be fine if you stop at verse 24.
 
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Quasar92

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Jesus has confirmed there is no need for 3rd Temple till the end of this present world thus no need for any nation of OT HEBREW

Matt 24:2 I tell you the truth, they will be completely demolished. Not one stone will be left on top of another!
==============================
Ezekiel 36:
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

10 And I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, even all of it: and the cities shall be inhabited, and the ruins shall be rebuilt.

The above prophecy made by Ezekiel during Hebrew captivity in Babylon has been fulfilled with the decree of Cyrus, ending their 70 years captivity and returning them to rebuild Jerusalem.


THERE WILL BE TWO MORE TEMPLES BUILT IN ISRAEL

The tribulation temple:
Matthew 24:15 - When you see the “abomination of desolation,” spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place…
2 Thessalonians 2:4 - "...so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God"
Revelation 11:1 - "...Go and measure the temple of God and the alter..."

The Millennial temple:

Ezekiel 43:7 - "...this is the place of my throne...This is where I will live among the Israelites forever."

Ezekiel 43:27 - …your priests will your burnt offerings and peace offerings on the altar, and I will accept you, declares the Lord.

Zechariah 6:12 - Here is the Man whose name is the Branch, and he will…build the temple of the Lord.
At the present time there is no temple on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem,
the location of both the first and second Jewish Temples. Instead, two
Muslim shrines, The Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque, stand on
the Temple Mount. Meantime, the Jewish people to consider the Temple
Mount to be the most sacred place for Jews in all the world. No wonder
the Temple Mount is a political powder keg and must be part of any
formula for peace in the Middle East!

According to the Bible, a temple will once again stand on the Temple
Mount. How and when the Temple Mount will be available for a future
temple remains to be seen. Biblical prophecy “buffs” have proposed all
kinds of potential scenarios for how all of this could take
place—everything from earthquakes to explosives to the collapse of the
Temple Mount platform!

Some well-meaning Christians have felt that the biblical predictions of a
future Temple should be spiritualized, saying that these prophecies
refer to the Church or to the individual Christian. Indeed, 1
Corinthians 3:16 makes it quite clear that the Church, as the body of
Christ, is the spiritual temple of the Holy Spirit. And in 1 Corinthians
6:19 we are taught that the physical body of every individual believer
is to be honored and kept clean, because it is the temple of the Holy
Spirit. But these wonderful New Testament truths do not alter the
biblical predictions of a literal future Temple in Jerusalem.

The question of a future Temple gets more complicated when we realize
that the Bible teaches that two temples are yet to stand on the Temple
Mount in the future. First will come a Tribulation Temple, followed by a
Millennium Temple which will be built when the Lord returns and sets up
His kingdom on this earth. Let's look at the Scriptures dealing with
these two future temples.


Here: Israel's Third and Fourth Temples

Here: http://sonstoglory.com/ThirdTempleEzeki ... Temple.htm [No tribulation temple shown]


Quasar92
 
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BABerean2

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Revelation 11:1 - "...Go and measure the temple of God and the alter..."


Rev 11:19  Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail.


 

1Pe 2:3  if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is gracious. 
1Pe 2:4  Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, 
1Pe 2:5  you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 


.

.
 
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jgr

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THERE WILL BE TWO MORE TEMPLES BUILT IN ISRAEL

The tribulation temple:
Matthew 24:15 - When you see the “abomination of desolation,” spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place…
2 Thessalonians 2:4 - "...so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God"
Revelation 11:1 - "...Go and measure the temple of God and the alter..."

The Millennial temple:

Ezekiel 43:7 - "...this is the place of my throne...This is where I will live among the Israelites forever."

Ezekiel 43:27 - …your priests will your burnt offerings and peace offerings on the altar, and I will accept you, declares the Lord.

Zechariah 6:12 - Here is the Man whose name is the Branch, and he will…build the temple of the Lord.
At the present time there is no temple on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem,
the location of both the first and second Jewish Temples. Instead, two
Muslim shrines, The Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque, stand on
the Temple Mount. Meantime, the Jewish people to consider the Temple
Mount to be the most sacred place for Jews in all the world. No wonder
the Temple Mount is a political powder keg and must be part of any
formula for peace in the Middle East!

According to the Bible, a temple will once again stand on the Temple
Mount. How and when the Temple Mount will be available for a future
temple remains to be seen. Biblical prophecy “buffs” have proposed all
kinds of potential scenarios for how all of this could take
place—everything from earthquakes to explosives to the collapse of the
Temple Mount platform!

Some well-meaning Christians have felt that the biblical predictions of a
future Temple should be spiritualized, saying that these prophecies
refer to the Church or to the individual Christian. Indeed, 1
Corinthians 3:16 makes it quite clear that the Church, as the body of
Christ, is the spiritual temple of the Holy Spirit. And in 1 Corinthians
6:19 we are taught that the physical body of every individual believer
is to be honored and kept clean, because it is the temple of the Holy
Spirit. But these wonderful New Testament truths do not alter the
biblical predictions of a literal future Temple in Jerusalem.

The question of a future Temple gets more complicated when we realize
that the Bible teaches that two temples are yet to stand on the Temple
Mount in the future. First will come a Tribulation Temple, followed by a
Millennium Temple which will be built when the Lord returns and sets up
His kingdom on this earth. Let's look at the Scriptures dealing with
these two future temples.


Here: Israel's Third and Fourth Temples

Here: http://sonstoglory.com/ThirdTempleEzeki ... Temple.htm [No tribulation temple shown]


Quasar92
Lotsa luck with that.

Sozomen (ca. A.D.375-447)
"Ecclesiastical History"
Book V, Chapter XXII


Though the emperor [Julian the Apostate] hated and opressed the Christians, he manifested benevolence and humanity towards the Jews. He wrote to the Jewish patriarchs and leaders, as well as to the people, requesting them to pray for him, and for the prosperity of the empire. In taking this step he was not actuated, I am convinced, by any respect for their religion; for he was aware that it is, so to speak, the mother of the Christian religion, and he knew that both religions rest upon the authority of the patriarchs and the prophets; but he thought to grieve the Christians by favoring the Jews, who are their most inveterate enemies. But perhaps he also calculated upon persuading the Jews to embrace paganism and sacrifices; for they were only acquainted with the mere letter of Scripture, and could not, like the Christians and a few of the wisest among the Hebrews, discern the hidden meaning.

Events proved that this was his real motive; for he sent for some of the chiefs of the race and exhorted them to return to the observance of the laws of Moses and the customs of their fathers. On their replying that because the temple in Jerusalem was overturned, it was neither lawful nor ancestral to do this in another place than the metropolis out of which they had been cast, he gave them public money, commanded them to rebuild the temple, and to practice the cult similar to that of their ancestors, by sacrificing after the ancient way. The Jews entered upon the undertaking, without reflecting that, according to the prediction of the holy prophets, it could not be accomplished. They sought for the most skillful artisans, collected materials, cleared the ground, and entered so earnestly upon the task, that even the women carried heaps of earth, and brought their necklaces and other female ornaments towards defraying the expense. The emperor, the other pagans, and all the Jews, regarded every other undertaking as secondary in importance to this. Although the pagans were not well-disposed towards the Jews, yet they assisted them in this enterprise, because they reckoned upon its ultimate success, and hoped by this means to falsify the prophecies of Christ. Besides this motive, the Jews themselves were impelled by the consideration that the time had arrived for rebuilding their temple. When they had removed the ruins of the former building, they dug up the ground and cleared away its foundation; it is said that on the following day when they were about to lay the first foundation, a great earthquake occurred, and by the violent agitation of the earth, stones were thrown up from the depths, by which those of the Jews who were engaged in the work were wounded, as likewise those who were merely looking on. The houses and public porticos, near the site of the temple, in which they had diverted themselves, were suddenly thrown down; many were caught thereby, some perished immediately, others were found half dead and mutilated of hands or legs, others were injured in other parts of the body. When God caused the earthquake to cease, the workmen who survived again returned to their task, partly because such was the edict of the emperor, and partly because they were themselves interested in the undertaking. Men often, in endeavoring to gratify their own passions, seek what is injurious to them, reject what would be truly advantageous, and are deluded-by the idea that nothing is really useful except what is agreeable to them. When once led astray by this error, they are no longer able to act in a manner conducive to their own interests, or to take warning by the calamities which are visited upon them.

The Jews, I believe, were just in this state; for, instead of regarding this unexpected earthquake as a manifest indication that God was opposed to the re-erection of their temple, they proceeded to recommence the work. But all parties relate, that they had scarcely returned to the undertaking, when fire burst suddenly from the foundations of the temple, and consumed several of the workmen.

This fact is fearlessly stated, and believed by all; the only discrepancy in the narrative is that some maintain that flame burst from the interior of the temple, as the workmen were striving to force an entrance, while others say that the fire proceeded directly from the earth. In whichever way the phenomenon might have occurred, it is equally wonderful. A more tangible and still more extraordinary prodigy ensued; suddenly the sign of the cross appeared spontaneously on the garments of the persons engaged in the undertaking. These crosses were disposed like stars, and appeared the work of art. Many were hence led to confess that Christ is God, and that the rebuilding of the temple was not pleasing to Him; others presented themselves in the church, were initiated, and besought Christ, with hymns and supplications, to pardon their transgression. If any one does not feel disposed to believe my narrative, let him go and be convinced by those who heard the facts I have related from the eyewitnesses of them, for they are still alive. Let him inquire, also, of the Jews and pagans who left the work in an incomplete state, or who, to speak more accurately, were able to commence it.
 
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redleghunter

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Lotsa luck with that.

Sozomen (ca. A.D.375-447)
"Ecclesiastical History"
Book V, Chapter XXII


Though the emperor [Julian the Apostate] hated and opressed the Christians, he manifested benevolence and humanity towards the Jews. He wrote to the Jewish patriarchs and leaders, as well as to the people, requesting them to pray for him, and for the prosperity of the empire. In taking this step he was not actuated, I am convinced, by any respect for their religion; for he was aware that it is, so to speak, the mother of the Christian religion, and he knew that both religions rest upon the authority of the patriarchs and the prophets; but he thought to grieve the Christians by favoring the Jews, who are their most inveterate enemies. But perhaps he also calculated upon persuading the Jews to embrace paganism and sacrifices; for they were only acquainted with the mere letter of Scripture, and could not, like the Christians and a few of the wisest among the Hebrews, discern the hidden meaning.

Events proved that this was his real motive; for he sent for some of the chiefs of the race and exhorted them to return to the observance of the laws of Moses and the customs of their fathers. On their replying that because the temple in Jerusalem was overturned, it was neither lawful nor ancestral to do this in another place than the metropolis out of which they had been cast, he gave them public money, commanded them to rebuild the temple, and to practice the cult similar to that of their ancestors, by sacrificing after the ancient way. The Jews entered upon the undertaking, without reflecting that, according to the prediction of the holy prophets, it could not be accomplished. They sought for the most skillful artisans, collected materials, cleared the ground, and entered so earnestly upon the task, that even the women carried heaps of earth, and brought their necklaces and other female ornaments towards defraying the expense. The emperor, the other pagans, and all the Jews, regarded every other undertaking as secondary in importance to this. Although the pagans were not well-disposed towards the Jews, yet they assisted them in this enterprise, because they reckoned upon its ultimate success, and hoped by this means to falsify the prophecies of Christ. Besides this motive, the Jews themselves were impelled by the consideration that the time had arrived for rebuilding their temple. When they had removed the ruins of the former building, they dug up the ground and cleared away its foundation; it is said that on the following day when they were about to lay the first foundation, a great earthquake occurred, and by the violent agitation of the earth, stones were thrown up from the depths, by which those of the Jews who were engaged in the work were wounded, as likewise those who were merely looking on. The houses and public porticos, near the site of the temple, in which they had diverted themselves, were suddenly thrown down; many were caught thereby, some perished immediately, others were found half dead and mutilated of hands or legs, others were injured in other parts of the body. When God caused the earthquake to cease, the workmen who survived again returned to their task, partly because such was the edict of the emperor, and partly because they were themselves interested in the undertaking. Men often, in endeavoring to gratify their own passions, seek what is injurious to them, reject what would be truly advantageous, and are deluded-by the idea that nothing is really useful except what is agreeable to them. When once led astray by this error, they are no longer able to act in a manner conducive to their own interests, or to take warning by the calamities which are visited upon them.

The Jews, I believe, were just in this state; for, instead of regarding this unexpected earthquake as a manifest indication that God was opposed to the re-erection of their temple, they proceeded to recommence the work. But all parties relate, that they had scarcely returned to the undertaking, when fire burst suddenly from the foundations of the temple, and consumed several of the workmen.

This fact is fearlessly stated, and believed by all; the only discrepancy in the narrative is that some maintain that flame burst from the interior of the temple, as the workmen were striving to force an entrance, while others say that the fire proceeded directly from the earth. In whichever way the phenomenon might have occurred, it is equally wonderful. A more tangible and still more extraordinary prodigy ensued; suddenly the sign of the cross appeared spontaneously on the garments of the persons engaged in the undertaking. These crosses were disposed like stars, and appeared the work of art. Many were hence led to confess that Christ is God, and that the rebuilding of the temple was not pleasing to Him; others presented themselves in the church, were initiated, and besought Christ, with hymns and supplications, to pardon their transgression. If any one does not feel disposed to believe my narrative, let him go and be convinced by those who heard the facts I have related from the eyewitnesses of them, for they are still alive. Let him inquire, also, of the Jews and pagans who left the work in an incomplete state, or who, to speak more accurately, were able to commence it.
Maybe the timing was off.....?
 
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Devin P

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John Nelson Darby came to America around the time of the Civil War and brought the Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology to our nation.

The doctrine was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible.
After that time, the doctrine spread like a virus through the modern evangelical Church.
Some people sitting in modern Southern Baptist churches have never heard anything else.
Dispensational preachers like John Hagee and Dr. David Jeremiah dominate much of Christian television in the United States.


The doctrine claims that at some future point in time modern descendants of Jacob will come to salvation outside of the Church.

Today millions of Christians all over the world support the cause of "Zionism".
Thousands of American soldiers have been killed in the Middle East during my lifetime.


Recently the present Lord Rothschild admitted the role that his family of money-changers played in the creation of the modern State of Israel.

Some American Christians have given financially to rebuild a Jewish temple in Jerusalem, whose goal is to renew animal sacrifices.

Is the modern Zionist movement really "Christian", based on 1 John 2:22-23?


.
Yeah it's an oxymoron, there's nothing Christian or biblical about it at all. They're the people Jesus warns about when He was talking about the synagogue of satan.
 
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redleghunter

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Yeah it's an oxymoron, there's nothing Christian or biblical about it at all. They're the people Jesus warns about when He was talking about the synagogue of satan.
Does anyone actually call themselves "Christian Zionist" or is that something call others in derision?
 
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Devin P

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Does anyone actually call themselves "Christian Zionist" or is that something call others in derision?
No, I don't think anyone calls themselves that. The synagogue of satan I was referring to were zionists though, not Christian zionists.

After looking into the track record of zionism, the innocent blood that's on their hands, the plans they've performed and are performing, you'd have to be either brainwashed, completely ignorant or a zionist to still be on the side of zionism.

I'm not saying you are for zionism, I just can't stand them. They use a biblical term to gain approval, but nothing they do is biblical.
 
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Quasar92

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Rev 11:19  Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail.


 

1Pe 2:3  if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is gracious. 
1Pe 2:4  Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, 
1Pe 2:5  you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 


.

.


The literal prophecy pertains to a stone building that refutes you

Daniel 9:27 - And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Matthew 24:15 - When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Revelation 11:1-2 - And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. (Read More...)

Daniel 11:31 - And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily [sacrifice], and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

2 Thessalonians 2:4 - Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


The Bible clearly teaches that a new temple — which will be called The Third Temple — will be built in the future. The First Temple was the one that Solomon built and which was destroyed in 586 BC. The Second Temple (516 BC to 70 AD) was built after the Jews returned from Babylonian captivity. The platform on which it sat was greatly expanded and beautified by King Herod, as was the temple itself, but since the sacrifices were never stopped during this renovation and expansion, the new temple was still considered to be The Second Temple.

The Third Temple will exist during the Great Tribulation. Daniel refers to this temple when he says that “the prince who is to come” (the Antichrist) will enter it and stop the sacrifices in the middle of the Tribulation (Daniel 9:27). The Apostle Paul mentions it when he declares that the “man of lawlessness” will profane the temple by entering it and declaring himself to be God (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4). The Third Temple is also mentioned in the book of Revelation when John is told to measure it — a symbolic way of telling him to assess its spiritual condition (Revelation 11:1-2).

This raises the question as to precisely when the temple will be rebuilt. The Bible does not reveal the answer to this question. All it says for certain is that the temple will be in existence when the Antichrist reveals himself (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4), and that will be in the middle of the Tribulation (Daniel 9:27). Since this will be only three and a half years into the Tribulation, many have concluded that the temple will likely be rebuilt before the Tribulation begins, because how could such a magnificent building be constructed in such a short period of time?

But this conclusion overlooks the fact that the temple can be literally resurrected overnight! That’s because the Jews plan to erect a tent temple like the Tabernacle of Moses, and they are ready to do so at any moment. Everything has been prepared. Once this temporary temple is put up, they will resume the sacrifices and then start building a more permanent structure around and above the temporary one.

Currently there are two major obstacles to the reconstruction of The Third Temple. One pertains to its location. The next temple can only be built where the two previous temples stood because the Holy of Holies must be on the exact same spot. But no one knows for sure where the previous temples were located on the Temple Mount. Most scholars believe that they stood where the Dome of the Rock currently stands. That conclusion may be wrong, but there is no way to prove the exact location without conducting archeological excavations on the Temple Mount, something which is currently prohibited by the Muslims. If The Third Temple is to be built where the Dome of the Rock now stands, then that Muslim structure must first of all be removed either by Man or God. It could, of course be burned to the ground by a saboteur, or it could be destroyed by an earthquake.

The second obstacle is the attitude of the Jewish people and their leaders. Currently, there is no desire among them to build a third temple. The average Israeli is very secular. He knows that any attempt to build a third temple would result in immediate war with the Muslims. Only a handful of ultra-Orthodox Jews have a passion for The Third Temple. They are the ones who have made all the preparations. But they have no popular support. Something will have to happen to create a surge of nationalistic pride that will demand a new temple. This catalytic event could be the discovery of the Ark of the Covenant.

There is a distinct possibility that the ancient temples were not located where the Dome of the Rock currently sits. There is strong evidence that their location was to the north of the Dome and that the sacrificial altar inside the Dome was the one that Solomon built in “the middle of the court” to handle the thousands of special sacrifices which he offered to the Lord on the day The First Temple was dedicated (2 Chronicles 7:7). If that is so, then The Third Temple could be built north of the Dome of the Rock, putting the Dome in the Court of the Gentiles. This may well be the solution the Antichrist will come up with when he negotiates a peace between the Jews and the Arabs (Daniel 9:27).

To summarize, there is definitely going to be a third temple. It will most likely be erected at the beginning of the Tribulation in the form of a tent temple, like the Tabernacle of Moses. A more permanent structure will then be built around and above it. The Antichrist will desecrate this temple in the middle of the Tribulation.

The Third Temple will be destroyed at the Second Coming of Jesus. The great earthquake at that time will radically change the topography of Jerusalem and all the earth (Revelation 6:12-17). In Jerusalem it will result in the provision of a very large level area where the Millennial Temple will be constructed. This is the temple from which Jesus will reign over all the earth. It is described in detail in Ezekiel 40-46.

Source: The Jewish Temples | Jews | Lamb and Lion Ministries


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BABerean2

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Daniel 9:27 - And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Matthew 24:15 - When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)


From the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America.

Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.

Daniel 9:27
And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

..............................................................................................................


Joh 10:22  And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.


The verse above shows that the Jews of Jesus time understood the term "Abomination of Desolation", since they celebrated Hanukkah each year.

The AOD occurred during 167 BC when Antiochus Epiphanes killed thousands of Jews in Jerusalem, and stopped the temple sacrifices, and had a pig slaughtered on the altar of the Jewish temple.

In Matthew 24:15-16, Jesus was telling the Jews of His time that something similar would occur during 70 AD.
This is confirmed by the parallel account in Luke 21:20-21.


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Quasar92

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Lotsa luck with that.

Sozomen (ca. A.D.375-447)
"Ecclesiastical History"
Book V, Chapter XXII


Though the emperor [Julian the Apostate] hated and opressed the Christians, he manifested benevolence and humanity towards the Jews. He wrote to the Jewish patriarchs and leaders, as well as to the people, requesting them to pray for him, and for the prosperity of the empire. In taking this step he was not actuated, I am convinced, by any respect for their religion; for he was aware that it is, so to speak, the mother of the Christian religion, and he knew that both religions rest upon the authority of the patriarchs and the prophets; but he thought to grieve the Christians by favoring the Jews, who are their most inveterate enemies. But perhaps he also calculated upon persuading the Jews to embrace paganism and sacrifices; for they were only acquainted with the mere letter of Scripture, and could not, like the Christians and a few of the wisest among the Hebrews, discern the hidden meaning.

Events proved that this was his real motive; for he sent for some of the chiefs of the race and exhorted them to return to the observance of the laws of Moses and the customs of their fathers. On their replying that because the temple in Jerusalem was overturned, it was neither lawful nor ancestral to do this in another place than the metropolis out of which they had been cast, he gave them public money, commanded them to rebuild the temple, and to practice the cult similar to that of their ancestors, by sacrificing after the ancient way. The Jews entered upon the undertaking, without reflecting that, according to the prediction of the holy prophets, it could not be accomplished. They sought for the most skillful artisans, collected materials, cleared the ground, and entered so earnestly upon the task, that even the women carried heaps of earth, and brought their necklaces and other female ornaments towards defraying the expense. The emperor, the other pagans, and all the Jews, regarded every other undertaking as secondary in importance to this. Although the pagans were not well-disposed towards the Jews, yet they assisted them in this enterprise, because they reckoned upon its ultimate success, and hoped by this means to falsify the prophecies of Christ. Besides this motive, the Jews themselves were impelled by the consideration that the time had arrived for rebuilding their temple. When they had removed the ruins of the former building, they dug up the ground and cleared away its foundation; it is said that on the following day when they were about to lay the first foundation, a great earthquake occurred, and by the violent agitation of the earth, stones were thrown up from the depths, by which those of the Jews who were engaged in the work were wounded, as likewise those who were merely looking on. The houses and public porticos, near the site of the temple, in which they had diverted themselves, were suddenly thrown down; many were caught thereby, some perished immediately, others were found half dead and mutilated of hands or legs, others were injured in other parts of the body. When God caused the earthquake to cease, the workmen who survived again returned to their task, partly because such was the edict of the emperor, and partly because they were themselves interested in the undertaking. Men often, in endeavoring to gratify their own passions, seek what is injurious to them, reject what would be truly advantageous, and are deluded-by the idea that nothing is really useful except what is agreeable to them. When once led astray by this error, they are no longer able to act in a manner conducive to their own interests, or to take warning by the calamities which are visited upon them.

The Jews, I believe, were just in this state; for, instead of regarding this unexpected earthquake as a manifest indication that God was opposed to the re-erection of their temple, they proceeded to recommence the work. But all parties relate, that they had scarcely returned to the undertaking, when fire burst suddenly from the foundations of the temple, and consumed several of the workmen.

This fact is fearlessly stated, and believed by all; the only discrepancy in the narrative is that some maintain that flame burst from the interior of the temple, as the workmen were striving to force an entrance, while others say that the fire proceeded directly from the earth. In whichever way the phenomenon might have occurred, it is equally wonderful. A more tangible and still more extraordinary prodigy ensued; suddenly the sign of the cross appeared spontaneously on the garments of the persons engaged in the undertaking. These crosses were disposed like stars, and appeared the work of art. Many were hence led to confess that Christ is God, and that the rebuilding of the temple was not pleasing to Him; others presented themselves in the church, were initiated, and besought Christ, with hymns and supplications, to pardon their transgression. If any one does not feel disposed to believe my narrative, let him go and be convinced by those who heard the facts I have related from the eyewitnesses of them, for they are still alive. Let him inquire, also, of the Jews and pagans who left the work in an incomplete state, or who, to speak more accurately, were able to commence it.


And your point after the above epistle, is precisely what? There will still be two more temples built in Jerusaem, in which Jesus will build the last one, as recorded in Zech.6:12-13.


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BABerean2

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And your point after the above epistle, is precisely what? There will still be two more temples built in Jerusaem, in which Jesus will build the last one, as recorded in Zech.6:12-13.


Quasar92

The only way you can make that work is by ignoring what Jesus clearly said.

He said He is now the temple of God.

He told the woman at the well that worship would not be in Jerusalem.

Jesus has already built the last temple, as revealed below by Peter.
We are stones in that temple.
This is the fulfillment of Zechariah 6:12-13.



1Pe 2:4  To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, 

1Pe 2:5  Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 

1Pe 2:6  Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 

1Pe 2:7  Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 

1Pe 2:8  And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. 

1Pe 2:9  But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 

1Pe 2:10  Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. 


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Quasar92

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From the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America.

Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.

Daniel 9:27
And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

..............................................................................................................


Joh 10:22  And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.


The verse above shows that the Jews of Jesus time understood the term "Abomination of Desolation", since they celebrated Hanukkah each year.

The AOD occurred during 167 BC when Antiochus Epiphanes killed thousands of Jews in Jerusalem, and stopped the temple sacrifices, and had a pig slaughtered on the altar of the Jewish temple.

In Matthew 24:15-16, Jesus was telling the Jews of His time that something similar would occur during 70 AD.
This is confirmed by the parallel account in Luke 21:20-21.


.


 


The prophetic Scriptures are not past history you keep trying to remake them say, so they fit your belief system. Posts #65 and #74 refute you. There will be two more temples built in Jerusalem, as the Scriptures so record.


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