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Is Christ the Savior of the World?

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by Ioustinos, Oct 25, 2002.

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  1. Ioustinos

    Ioustinos Veteran

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    Hi all :wave:

    According to Calvinism or Reformed theology, Christ died for the elect. But how does a Calvinist account for such passages which state that Christ is the savior of the world, such as John 1:29, 3:16, 4:41-42; 1 John 2:2, 4:14?

    From my brief studies on this subject, would I be correct in stating that according to Calvinism the word world used in these passages is used to represent the idea that both Jew and Gentile peoples will receive salvation. This view point is deducted from the context of scripture and that the idea that both Jew and Gentile would be saved was a mystery that was revealed to the church.

    Do you agree with this statement? Disagree? Why? Why not?


    Thanks :)
     
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  2. Reformationist

    Reformationist Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam

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    Absolutely, well put.  The way I have had it explained to me is "The world without distinction, NOT, the world without exception."

    God bless brother,

    Don
     
  3. Miss Shelby

    Miss Shelby Legend

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    I disagree. Although I'd never heard the Calvinist explanation before that 'world' simply meant both the Jew and the Gentile. You learn something new everyday. :)

    But God desires all men to be saved:

    "Fear not: for behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to ALL PEOPLE. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. (Luke 2:10-11)

    "Come unto Me all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest" (Matthew 11:28 )

    "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have ALL MEN to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth...because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of ALL MEN, specially of those that believe." (1 Timothy 2:3-4; 4:10)

    If He didn't mean 'all', then why did he say 'all'?   Does all fit into the same category as world?

    Michelle
     
  4. Miss Shelby

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    Jesaiah you said:

    Were you just talking to the elect, or were you talking to all who might look at the thread? LOL that was a joke, please laugh.

    Michelle
     
  5. Ioustinos

    Ioustinos Veteran

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    Why you... :mad:

    Just kidding ;) :D

    God bless :hug:
     
  6. Ioustinos

    Ioustinos Veteran

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    Hi Miss Shelby :wave:


    Most of my questions lately are based upon my ideas found within a book by Richard Belcher entitled "A Journey Through Grace". It is a fictional novel but the story is about a young man who started studying the idea of Calvinism when he was before a pulpit committee and he was asked the question: Young man, are you a Calvinist? The novel is nice and it does a good job of explaining some of the misunderstood ideas of the basic tents of Calvinism in laymen's terms. You might want to check it out, hopefully I will finish the novel by tonight. There are chapters that specifically tackle the subject of verses that contain the words "all" and "world".

    For example, in Mark 1:5 it is written:
    And there went out to him all the land of Judea, and they of Jerusalem and were all baptized of him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins.

    Question:
    1) Does this verse mean that every person, every single individual man of the land of Judea and Jerusalem went out to hear John the Baptist preach?

    2)Does this verse mean that every person, every single individual man of the land of Jerusalem and Judea was baptized in the Jordan River, confessing their sins?


    Just something to ponder :)

    Be well :wave:
     
  7. Ioustinos

    Ioustinos Veteran

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    Just to clarify, from what I have read so far world means both Jew and Gentile. That is that God will save men and women from every nation of people. Not just the Jews, but people of the Gentile nations as well.


    God bless :wave:
     
  8. eldermike

    eldermike Pray Supporter

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    JN 4:39 Many of the Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman's testimony, "He told me everything I ever did." 40 So when the Samaritans came to him, they urged him to stay with them, and he stayed two days. 41 And because of his words many more became believers.

    JN 4:42 They said to the woman, "We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world."

    These passages give us much, if fact the whole story is worth close study.
    Jesus came to the woman - She became a witness - some believed due to the witness but this belief was not the one that saved them it was when "they heard for themselves".

    We do have a puzzle - God desires that all be saved and in this passage He saved some and not all. We see the process clearly, it's a work of God that saves.

    The answer I keep in my mind is that election is the grace given to respond to God. I would never be capable of explaining why only some recieve it.

    We are left with:
    All recieve it, and some respond.
    Some recieve it, and all respond.

    I am in the Some recieve it camp because we are called to a harvest that was prepared for us, so I assume that when God prepares, it's a done deal.

    I hope this in "on subject".

    Blessings
     
  9. Reformationist

    Reformationist Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam

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    Miss Shelby, you should look up the word "world" in your concordance and see how many different ways the word is used and then offer an opinion as to whether there's a possibility that a different meaning could have been meant. :)

    God bless
     
  10. Reformationist

    Reformationist Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam

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    LOL!! :D

    Very clever!!! :D
     
  11. Arnold_Philips

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    What about the Syrophoenician woman? ("But even the dogs eat the under the table eat the children's crumbs)." It seems that Jesus is saying that He is only for Israel. This kind of makes sense to me since it would be nearly impossible for Jesus to do a world tour, and just didn't have the time. But, of course, in effect, He dies for the world.
    Eph 2:17 "He came and preached peace to you who were far away and you who were near."

    This had kind of bothered me before.
     
  12. Reformationist

    Reformationist Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam

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    Very nice Mike.  Once again, very well said.  And, if I may, this subject is a difficult one to understand and one that has been made easier by your explanation.

    God bless,

    Don
     
  13. Miss Shelby

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    Hi Jes,

    Sounds like a good book.  I can't remember the last time I read a fiction  novel....maybe I will look into it.  Of course, I have other books on my list (parenting ones specifically) that I need to get to first. :)

    I almost bought the book TULIP once, then didn't.  That one is also on my list, since different aspects of theology is fast becoming an interest of mine.  Thanks again.

    Michelle
     
  14. Miss Shelby

    Miss Shelby Legend

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    If you don't want to answer questions about your beliefs, that's fine.  In the future though, would you please extend me the courtesy of not telling me how to post?    I sure would appreciate it, and I'd do you the same favor :)

    Michelle
     
  15. Reformationist

    Reformationist Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam

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    It's obvious I didn't word that right.  I meant nothing disrespectful about what I said.  Please forgive me.  I apologize for telling you how to post.  I was just trying to relay that the word "world" is used numerous different ways in the Bible so for us to see the word and not consider the context it is used in can make it more difficult to fully understand a verse.

    I obviously did not do a good job of relaying that.  Again, please forgive me.  I am more than happy to answer questions about my beliefs. :)

    God bless,

    Don
     
  16. Miss Shelby

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    No problemo. :)

    Michelle
     
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