Is Catholicism the ONLY true faith?

[Albion]

Well...
He did separate justification and fruit of the Spirit, that's pretty close to be saying that piety is add-on and not at all mandatory.

Not at all.

Luther of course cannot be held responsible to their errors, but the seed had been planted by the reformer himself.

'Seed had been planted' is always going to be easy to say and could be used against almost any church.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

Not at all.


'Seed had been planted' is always going to be easy to say and could be used against almost any church.

What a great post of nonsense.

 

[Albion]

What a great post of nonsense.

It's not 'nonsense' to say that you haven't gotten your facts together.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

It's not 'nonsense' to say that you haven't gotten your facts together.

Shouting out error without any backing up why is equal to nonsense.
So the term nonsense is rather fitting.

 

[Albion]

Shouting out error without any backing up why is equal to nonsense.
So the term nonsense is rather fitting.

You made the unsubstantiated claim that Luther was a believer in OSAS, not I.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

You made the unsubstantiated claim that Luther was a believer in OSAS, not I.

I backed ut up...
Well I'm a bit to old for these kind of games...
Enjoy your evening, im out.

 

[Lybrah]

Does anyone know on what basis the Catholics say they are the only true church? Just because Jesus told Peter He'd make him His rock? Where did the doctrines and sacraments come from? Who decided what?

 

[Albion]

Does anyone know on what basis the Catholics say they are the only true church? Just because Jesus told Peter He'd make him His rock? Where did the doctrines and sacraments come from? Who decided what?

They quote that verse these days, but it was not cited by any Pope in support of the idea that he was the rightful head of all Christianity until about 300 years or so after Christ.

Nevertheless, the Roman Catholic Church has long insisted, as you said, that Christ founded one denomination--theirs--to the exclusion of all others. History says that it's not so, and other than for that verse you cited (which must have about five well-travelled interpretations), Scripture doesn't say anything about it either.

Still, the desire of denominations to be seen as more special or unique or that they stand closer to God than anyone else's is a human failing, just as we all want to get ahead of the competition in whatever else it is that we are doing in life, too.

 

[sethrak]

Does anyone know on what basis the Catholics say they are the only true church? Just because Jesus told Peter He'd make him His rock? Where did the doctrines and sacraments come from? Who decided what?

Hi, Where is it? When Christ asked Peter who do you say I am~Peter answered You are the Christ~Christ said to Simon Peter: You are a stone Petro but on this Petra ( Greate Corner Stone) Meaning: That I am the Christ , on this Fact I will build My Chruch.

At one time in history all the Churches started by Apostles were the Universal Church~there was no Headquarters, No seat of government of all the churches.

The Roman or Latin Church took the name Catholic (Universal) on the strength of Petro/petra a stone is a Rock~concluding that The Christ had built His Church on Peter and that the latin Church had started in the Holy land not in Rome where Peter went to teach.

The other Churches, Universal have not taken kindly to this. The Latin Church now the Catholic Church did not do this while Peter was alive~many years later and was part of the reason for the split when communication broke down between the Universal Church.

The Catholic Church is an important, large True Church as are all of the Universal Church or Churches started by Apostles. Some thing done under one pope many many many years is a problem.

One of the True Churches. There are churches today that Christians and Christianity is judged by here in the States that~well, each person can and has started a church with "I was led by the Holy Spirit to do and say~well again things that are not very much related to Christianity now there are somewhere around 3 to 4000 churches teaching what what their founder was led by a spirit to say and teach.

When Christianity is mocked by nonbelievers Christians are spoken of as those.

No one has to belong to any one church~Christian believe tho a person may go to Heaven without being a Christian, because he or she is good an holy, nothing, no person or place will get us to Heaven except Christ. There is no way but through Him.

He God may and does take persons to Himself tho because they are that good that holy~how many of us are that good so the only sure way is Through Him.

seth

 

[mkdrive2]

May I ask if everyone here does not believe in "Once Saved Always Saved"?

 

[chevyontheriver]

May I ask if everyone here does not believe in "Once Saved Always Saved"?

I sure don't.

 

[Maryslittleflower]

Recently, someone told me that Catholicism is the only true faith, and that Protestants are heretics and may go to hell. When I told him I didn't pray to Mary and the Saints, he got quiet and claimed that Jesus' disciples and the first Christians were really Catholics. He claimed that anyone who rejects any kind of doctrine is a heretic. Thoughts? I don't believe him, but part of me questions if he is right? It doesn't make sense that someone who believes Jesus is the Son of God, rose from the dead, and keeps His commandments would not go to heaven because he was not a Catholic. It kind of upset me, actually.

BTW, not sure where to put this thread, so sorry if it is in the wrong place.

Of course, the Catholics here (such as myself) would say that the Catholic faith is right and not the Protestant one, and the Protestants would say differently. I recommend researching the history of the Church. The early Church did not believe as Protestants do... the Protestant beliefs that are different from Catholic beliefs were not believed by the successors of the Apostles.

I used to be Protestant and later converted to Catholicism. It was a difficult journey for me but at one point in prayer, God made it really obvious. Keep praying and seeking

The Catholic Church is not just a human institution, one among many. The Church is Christ's Body on earth but it has a visible structure it's not just invisible. The Protestants see it more as an invisible church.

Many might tell you that "Catholics worship Mary". etc. We do not. One thing I would recommend is researching Catholicism from Catholic sources - there are so many misconceptions about our faith it can give you a totally different view of what we actually believe. If you have any questions I'm sure the Catholics at the Catholic forum here can help out.

Ask Jesus to show you where His Church is and then keep asking Him.

As for salvation, if someone is ignorant through no fault of their own, that's different than someone who received the grace to know the truth of the Church and rejected it. We do believe that the Catholic Church is the true Church and that it's necessary for salvation. We just understand that if someone is ignorant through no fault of their own of a truth, they have not culpably rejected it so they haven't sinned. But to be saved, we need to be sorry for all our sins, and heresy is a sin.. it's a rejection of a truth of God, that is serious. Deliberate rejection of a help (a grace) from God, such as knowing the truth, is also a sin. We need to repent of this and that is why it's linked to salvation. This is where these comments on salvation come from, also because God does give graces to help us through the Church. From this, you'd hear Catholics say that being in the Church is linked to salvation, and rejecting it is a sin, but at the same time we don't comment on the hearts of individual people because we don't know their amount of ignorance etc. Ignorance is only excusable if it's not a person's fault, if they tried their best to inform themselves, and weren't ignorant through laziness or neglect.

I understand this might be frightening, but just ask God to show you where the truth is, Catholic or Protestant, and be very open and keep praying and researching. Trust Him and I'm sure He will help.

God bless you!

 

[Maryslittleflower]

May I ask if everyone here does not believe in "Once Saved Always Saved"?

I do not, but neither did the early Church.

If we could be saved in a moment and then never had the possibility of going the other way, no one would ever fall away. But people do.

We can go to Heaven if we are in a "state of grace". A state of grace means all our sins are forgiven, but what happens if our past sins were forgiven and then we sin again? we need to repent again. If we don't, we're not in a state of grace anymore.

 

[Maryslittleflower]

Here is a VERY helpful website about Catholicism. It has many articles about topics that are usually of interest to Protestants researching about the Catholic Church.
Catholic Bridge

 

[Maryslittleflower]

They often believe they were the first church to exist and hence the only and true church. I can't get to into it due to rules but I can say they weren't actually the first church group. And they are not the only true one. Jesus leads to salvation, not a specific branch or denomination. The only difference with all these groups is how the interpret the bible, hence many ones have rules. One church may allow for casual clothes where as another more only allow long dresses on women. One church may teach tounges is a sign of salvation another church may teach tounges is irrelevant to salvation. So on and so forth.

Jesus leads to salvation with and through the Church, because the Church is His Body, His mystical presence on earth. We shouldn't divide the Head and the Body in our theology. The Church is not only invisible. So it's not about "salvation through a denomination or a group". The Catholic Church is not a denomination.

If you look at the early Church, no there were no "many first church groups". That is not historical. There were some people who proclaimed heresies like denying the divinity of Christ. Christians got together in Councils and condemned them. These Christians did not believe as Protestants.

Some examples...

In this quote, St Irenaeus, says that he knows he's in the true Church (unlike the heretics he mentions) BECAUSE of Apostolic Succession, that is the succession of Bishops from the Apostles. This is still held in the Catholic Church but not in Protestantism. CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, III.3 (St. Irenaeus)

St Irenaeus died in 202 AD. He lived basically right after the Apostles.

Because of Apostolic Succession, you can see other things in the early Church Fathers like the Mass, the Sacraments, priesthood, etc. We see devotion to Our Blessed Mother and the Catholic view of salvation. There were not many groups of Christians, they all believed this way. The groups that didn't, denied things like the divinity of Christ - these were heretics, and Protestants would disagree with many of them too.

 

[The Grouch]

Does anyone know on what basis the Catholics say they are the only true church? Just because Jesus told Peter He'd make him His rock? Where did the doctrines and sacraments come from? Who decided what?

This is an interesting discussion and this is a great question. First I think Catholics read scripture entirely differently than protestants and catholicism is an entirely different faith system to protestantism.

Sola scriptura being the protestant faith system

And sacred scripture and sacred tradition being the model of catholic system

So sacred tradition is seen through the eyes of scripture and scripture through the eyes of sacred tradition hence how catholics and protestant read scripture differently and are two entirely different faiths

I am a Catholic so i am biased towards catholicism but having said that i think it reasonable to say that if if we believe christ is God and christ established a church when he came to earth which he did and said the gates of hell would not over come it as well as the church he instituted being the establishment of the new and everlasting covenant... it is safe to assume that that church still must exist and have existed since the time Christ instituted it.

We know Christians have existed since then there have been divisions and disentions of opinion from the very begining and its warned about and certain groups condemned in the bible itself by the apostles. The apostles claimed that they were the authority "we are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood" 1 John 4:6

So we know that the church has to be apostolic that a apostolic line must exist in this church we are looking for.

We can say with absolute assurance that such a lineage does exist within the catholic faith... that is found in papal succession from St Peter right upto today that apostolic line continues and it is from there the church claims its authority just as the apostles claimed that authority in 1 John 4:6 it is from this claim of authority that the churches doctrines inspired by the holy spirit stand on.

There really is no apostolic linage in protestantism with different men starting different denominations from martin luther a (rightfully so) disgruntled Catholic priest to henry 8th a disgruntled catholic monarch never the less these denominations were started by men not appointed by christ or by the successors of the apostles and had no authority to do so they then developed doctrines such as sola scriptura and sola fide without any such authority to do so they allowed divorce and remarriage and were ultimatly excommunicated cut off from the church that had that apostolic authority. This loss of authority has continued in protestantism and has led protestantism to become so fractured that tens of thousands of denominations have sprung up each believing differently to one another this gave rise to relative thinking that is the idea that what is true for one may not be true for another and that no objective truth can be found and therefore morality must be relatative too. The idea each individual can interperate scriptures themselves that no objective truth can be found has direclty led to todays secular culture todays culture is without a doubt the end result of protestant philosophy.

 

[Albion]

In sum, Christ founded a church. We call it Christianity. It started with the Apostles, so we call it Apostolic. All baptized Christians are members of his church by having been Baptized.

It has many divisions we call denominations, but they are all still Christian and trace their history back to the Apostles. None of the divisions or denominations--none--holds to exactly what was believed by the first Christians, although some denominations claim that they are unique in doing so.

 

[The Grouch]

In sum, Christ founded a church. We call it Christianity. It started with the Apostles, so we call it Apostolic. All baptized Christians are members of his church by having been Baptized.

It has many divisions we call denominations, but they are all still Christian and trace their history back to the Apostles. None of the divisions or denominations--none--holds to exactly what was believed by the first Christians, although some denominations claim that they are unique in doing so.

There is so many differences of opinion among those who profess Christ that they cant all be right because so many conflict with each other in their understanding. If we do not hold the absolute truth we are simply embracing a lie. The devil will allow us to hold 10,000 truthes in order to have us believe in one lie because Christ is pure absoulte truth his church like wise must be absolute truth because he is his church and his church is christ as the two become one flesh and his church must be a pure and spotless bride as he promise he would send the spirit to guide her into all/fullness of truth and if we accept just one lie we can not be that bride and the devil knows this so he allows us so much truth to embed even one lie/falsehood and its through this lie that the poison is adminstered that leads to death

 

[Albion]

There is so many differences of opinion among those who profess Christ that they cant all be right because so many conflict with each other in their understanding.

There are substantial differences, to be sure. That means that not everyone can be right. BUT how much of what is contested is essential to the faith? In fact, it is rather little.

That doesn't mean that it is unimportant, and we all want to be right with the Bible teachings. However, what defines a Christian, after all the shouting is over, is whether or not we have faith in Christ as Lord, God come in the flesh, and trust that our salvation lies in his having paid the price for our sins.

So...how many Christian denominations believe that? Oh, its almost all of them. The bulk of what is in dispute is outside of that frame.

If we do not hold the absolute truth we are simply embracing a lie.

You may say that, but I would say it means that we are wrong about something or other, yet we remain as Christians (for the reasons mentioned above) an] members of his church.

 

[The Grouch]

There are substantial differences, to be sure. That means that not everyone can be right. BUT how much of what is contested is essential to the faith? In fact, it is rather little.

That doesn't mean that it is unimportant, and we all want to be right with the Bible teachings. However, what defines a Christian, after all the shouting is over, is whether or not we have faith in Christ as Lord, God come in the flesh, and trust that our salvation lies in his having paid the price for our sins.

So...how many Christian denominations believe that? Oh, its almost all of them. The bulk of what is in dispute is outside of that frame.

You may say that, but I would say it means that we are wrong about something or other, yet we remain as Christians (for the reasons mentioned above) an] members of his church.

Ah but if you believe the lie your faith is not in Christ at least not the true Christ but a phantom of your own making, your own personal jesus a false christ a ANTI Christ


In thessalonians we read of the final antichrist and in that we find that the deception that devieves so many is based a single lie... its a single lie that will cause so many to loose the devine life

He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

So the lesson we garner from this scripture is that if we do not believe the fullness of truth the absolute truth then we are simply following a lie and the father of lies appearing as an angel of light