Is Catholicism Christianity?

[fragmentsofdreams]

Originally posted by Andrew
Is Catholicism Chrisitianity?

Well, the Catholics I've met always identify themselves proudly as Catholics, not Christians, to distinguish themselves from protestants who have "gone astray".

Personally, I believe there are saved Catholics becos many of them do confess Jesus as their Lord and Saviour.

I only identify myself as Catholic because I deal mainly with other Christians. In a more religiously diverse setting, I would probably say that I am Christian.

 

[Brain Damage]

Quote Athlon4all - What do people here think? Is the RC Church the woman that's riding the beast in Revelation 17/18?


No I don't believe the RCC is the woman that rides the beast , I believe it will be this woman :


Revelation 17

3Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. 4The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. 5This title was written on her forehead: MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH


That scripture is often used to prove that it is the catholic church , but look at this :


Ezekiel 16: 10. “I clothed you in embroidered cloth and gave you sandals of badger skin; I clothed you with FINE LINEN and covered you with SILK. 11“I adorned you with ornaments, put bracelets on your wrists, and a chain on your neck. 12“And I put a JEWEL in your nose, earrings in your ears, and a beautiful CROWN on your head. 13“Thus you were adorned with GOLD and SILVER, and your clothing was of FINE LINEN, SILK, and embroidered cloth. You ate pastry of fine flour, honey, and oil. You were exceedingly beautiful, and succeeded to royalty. 14 “Your FAME went out among the NATIONS because of your beauty, for it was perfect through My splendor which I HAD BESTOWED ON YOU,” SAYS THE LORD GOD.
15 “But you trusted in your own beauty, played the HARLOT because of your fame, and poured out your HARLOTRY on EVERYONE passing by who would have it


And This :


O desolate one [Jerusalem], what will you do? Although you dress in scarlet, Although you decorate [yourself with] ornaments of gold, Although you enlarge your eyes with paint, In vain you make yourself beautiful


I guess I may as well throw in a few more :


for she says in her heart, "I sit as queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.'


Compare :



Isaiah 54

5For your Maker is your husband,
The LORD of hosts is His name;



The RCC was never guilty of killing the prophets .


"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, killing the prophets and stoning those who are sent to you!

To what John says in Rev 18:21-24

"So shall Babylon the great city be thrown down with violence, and shall be found no more... 24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of ALL who have been slain on earth."


I am simply showing biblical scriptures that pinpoint Jerusalem as the mystery harlot woman and "THE CITY" other that what is more comonly taught..such as : the babylon of Iraq or the catholic church. .etc..etc.

I also believe that the 7 mountains/hills/kings are not the hills of Rome but are empires that ruled over the jews :

Egypt

Assyria

Babylon

Media/persia

Greek

Rome

That is 6 empires of the past that ruled over the jews , and it is believed we now await the resurrection of one of them...thus making a total of 7 empires in all .


So "NO"...I don't believe the RCC is the woman/harlot/city .

 

[Gabriel]

The problem that I have with this thread is that the first post amount to an attack. Yet the title forbids Catholic rebuttal.

Athlon,
Tell me if you find this offensive:

Are black people smart? (no blacks please)

Pretty offensive, huh? How is what you did here any different?

I must say to you Catholics out there. Kudos on your restraint.

Since this thread has done little in the way of edification and lots in the direction of offending, why does it continue? I wonder how many kids with new computers from Christmas have seen it and chose not to become members of this MB because of it.

 

[Live4Jesus]

Originally posted by Brain Damage

The RCC was never guilty of killing the prophets .

Some would argue with you using both the inquistion and the crusades as evidence. But again like I mentioned earlier, you have also to look at where the original church begins to blend with the roman culture, which is called Babylon by Peter (1Peter 5:13) most directly, and decide at that point, exactly what happened, which is kind of a blurry area.... who wrested control from who etc. and why of these things were possible in the first place... surely Jesus never taught the things that were done during those times, and which remain somewhat of a legacy, within the church (even all denoms) today.

I mean in rome, the same people who viciously enjoyed the slaughter of the christians, they and their children, 40-50 years after Constantine, became the catholic church as well as what was left of the original christian population there... I think it was one of constantine's sons who made belonging to the church mandatory you'd have to look it up, even the roman soldiers, the same ones who fed the christians to the lions, were forced to convert for instance...


A few hundred years later... I could have been killed by the Inquisition for instance, for refusing to reform/be reducated/repent to lets say... oh the idea of purgatory for one...

---

I have to agree as well with Gabriel above.

 

[Athlon4all]

If you're doing a study for school on the RCC, then I seriously suggest that you go to a library/bookstore and get the book Catechism of the Catholic Church. This explains the RCC's stance on pretty much everything. They also have this entire book at http://www.catholic.org . I also suggest that you make this decision on your own, as opposed to other people's opinions.

As a matter of fact, I just went to that very website and found the cathechism. Thanks!

Pretty offensive, huh? How is what you did here any different?

It was different because as you will see in the next paragraph, I did not have evin intent and I intended this to be not involving Catholics (which as it turns out, the mods say I can't do).

I feel that I should say truly that this thread was not started with evil intent. God knows my heart. I really am seeking the truth. I do feel I need to confess that I was somewhat how shall I put it, blinded in some ways about this (like for example in what defines a Christian). I am sorry for any of my true brothers or sisters (Catholic or non-Catholic) that have been offended by this post.

On an end note, I want to just Praise the LORD to see as some have pointed out, how this hasn't been a flame war. The LORD has poured out His spirit on those here so that there hasn't been the usual flaming and such.

 

[Julie]

Originally posted by Athlon4all
Please note:  ...I mean doctrines like Papal infallibility, the Papcy, Baptismal regeneration, that only the RC Church can interprete scripture, purgratory (and the doctrine that says that accepting Christ only cleanses us from original sin, and that sins done in this life are not cleansed by accepting Christ), etc. What do people here think?....

 

I,  myself can not accept any of the above doctrines from the RC church or ANY OTHER church for that matter, so I would attend and support a church that believes otherwise on those doctrines.  Its no big deal.

 

[Live4Jesus]

Originally posted by Julie
 

I,  myself can not accept any of the above doctrines from the RC church or ANY OTHER church for that matter, so I would attend and support a church that believes otherwise on those doctrines.  Its no big deal.

I have wondered alot why those things are called Bull.

I call them that too.. it is funny when the Pope does it it's OK when I do it everyone gets angry heh heh.

nteresting to note also that bulls are commonly used in worship of gods like baal. Didn't the hewbrews even build a bull when Moses delayed in returning?

 

[Brain Damage]

Originally posted by Live4Jesus
Some would argue with you using both the inquistion and the crusades as evidence. But again like I mentioned earlier, you have also to look at where the original church begins to blend with the roman culture, which is called Babylon by Peter (1Peter 5:13) most directly, and decide at that point, exactly what happened, which is kind of a blurry area.... who wrested control from who etc. and why of these things were possible in the first place... surely Jesus never taught the things that were done during those times, and which remain somewhat of a legacy, within the church (even all denoms) today.

I mean in rome, the same people who viciously enjoyed the slaughter of the christians, they and their children, 40-50 years after Constantine, became the catholic church as well as what was left of the original christian population there... I think it was one of constantine's sons who made belonging to the church mandatory you'd have to look it up, even the roman soldiers, the same ones who fed the christians to the lions, were forced to convert for instance...


A few hundred years later... I could have been killed by the Inquisition for instance, for refusing to reform/be reducated/repent to lets say... oh the idea of purgatory for one...

---

I have to agree as well with Gabriel above.

 

The inquisition and the crusades we never responsible for killing the prophets , and there are two more prophets / wittnesses to come and they are also killed in that great city which is not Rome but is jerusalem :

The Witnesses Killed
7 When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. 8And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our[1] Lord was crucified. 9Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow[2] their dead bodies to be put into graves.


<B>"Where also our lord was crucified"</B>.

 

[Defender of the Faith 777]

Man, I'm sorry. If we're using definitions, you gotta have common sense, no offense.

A believer and follower of Christ is a Christian. I'm sorry, but you just gotta take it literally and not make much a big deal of it. We all believe in the same Christ. If we all strive after Him, we are all Christians. Man, it's simple.

 

[kern]

Yeah, but what does it mean to "believe in Christ"? Even the demons believe, and shudder.

Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses both profess to believe in Christ yet a lot of people (both Catholic and Protestant) believe they are not Christian. So clearly there's something more to the definition than that.

Although I agree with you, FWIW.

-Chris

 

[his-girl]

Originally posted by Stormy
Athlon4all : Since you are the first one on this thread, to open your mouth, why shouldn't you also be the one to put your foot into it?

Tell us in your "judgement" what you think.

Stormy,

1 John 4:1 tells us, 'do not believe everyone who claims to speak by the Spirit. You must test them to see if the spirit they have comes from God. For there are many false prophets in the world.'

2 Timothy 3:16 tells us All Scripture is God-breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

This isn't judging...IMHO, it's testing doctrine against the Word.

 

[chelcb]

Originally posted by Gabriel
The problem that I have with this thread is that the first post amount to an attack. Yet the title forbids Catholic rebuttal.

Athlon,
Tell me if you find this offensive:

Are black people smart? (no blacks please)

Pretty offensive, huh? How is what you did here any different?

I must say to you Catholics out there. Kudos on your restraint.

Since this thread has done little in the way of edification and lots in the direction of offending, why does it continue? I wonder how many kids with new computers from Christmas have seen it and chose not to become members of this MB because of it.

&nbsp;

Thanks Gabriel.

 

[Live4Jesus]

Originally posted by his-girl
This isn't judging...IMHO, it's testing doctrine against the Word.

Which is a real good thing to do his-girl.

Notice how when Jesus was tempted in the desrt by satan, what did he use as defense? a crucifix? no. A piece of leavened bread? no. The threat of his mother? no.

He used the word of God. Thats all.

Good example to follow I would say.

Of course many would have me follow the examples of others they call 'saints'.

ahem, I would like to point out that if its possible, shouldn't I always follow Jesus' example first?

hello.

 

[chelcb]

Of course many would have me follow the examples of others they call 'saints'.

ahem, I would like to point out that if its possible, shouldn't I always follow Jesus' example first?

Hello-

What do you think the sanits did? What do you think made them saints, how they got that way?

 

[seebs]

Originally posted by his-girl

1 John 4:1 tells us, 'do not believe everyone who claims to speak by the Spirit. You must test them to see if the spirit they have comes from God. For there are many false prophets in the world.'

2 Timothy 3:16 tells us All Scripture is God-breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

Actually, 2 Timothy 3:16 is ambiguous; it either says that, or says "All Scripture which is God-breathed is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, ..."

Anyway, that's great - but it doesn't tell me that nothing *else* can be God-breathed, and there are many issues on which the Bible is silent.

This isn't judging...IMHO, it's testing doctrine against the Word.

And sometimes the answer is "the Word doesn't answer that question".

 

[Terri]

Originally posted by his-girl
Stormy,

1 John 4:1 tells us, 'do not believe everyone who claims to speak by the Spirit. You must test them to see if the spirit they have comes from God. For there are many false prophets in the world.'

2 Timothy 3:16 tells us All Scripture is God-breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

This isn't judging...IMHO, it's testing doctrine against the Word.

I agree his-girl.&nbsp;

A lot of people of this board call it hate or bashing though.

 

[Julie]

Originally posted by seebs



And sometimes the answer is "the Word doesn't answer that question".

I disagree, Gods word has all the answers.

 

[Terri]

Originally posted by Live4Jesus
Which is a real good thing to do his-girl.

Notice how when Jesus was tempted in the desrt by satan, what did he use as defense? a crucifix? no. A piece of leavened bread? no. The threat of his mother? no.

He used the word of God. Thats all.

Good example to follow I would say.

Of course many would have me follow the examples of others they call 'saints'.

ahem, I would like to point out that if its possible, shouldn't I always follow Jesus' example first?

hello.

&nbsp; &nbsp;

 

[his-girl]

Originally posted by chelcb
Of course many would have me follow the examples of others they call 'saints'.

ahem, I would like to point out that if its possible, shouldn't I always follow Jesus' example first?

Hello-

What do you think the sanits did? What do you think made them saints, how they got that way?

Chelsi, Just because the Catholic Church declares someone a saint doesn't mean they actually are one.

 

[his-girl]

Originally posted by seebs
Actually, 2 Timothy 3:16 is ambiguous; it either says that, or says "All Scripture which is God-breathed is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, ..."

Anyway, that's great - but it doesn't tell me that nothing *else* can be God-breathed, and there are many issues on which the Bible is silent.

And sometimes the answer is "the Word doesn't answer that question".

Seebs,

I believe that the Word of God is the final authority....period.&nbsp; I also believe that the Bible is not silent on many issues, it's only silent on issues that the Catholic Church embraces.&nbsp;