Is believing/faith a work ?

[sawdust]

God doesnt call people to be saved by their works.

Go ahead. Don't do God's work. No skin off my nose mate.

 

[Brightfame52]

Go ahead. Don't do God's work. No skin off my nose mate.

Christ did the work I needed to be saved, God accepted them !

 

[Receivedgrace]

Christ did the work I needed to be saved, God accepted them !

Then you had a part in your salvation. Acceptance is a work just like believing according to what you have proposed earlier.

 

[Brightfame52]

Then you had a part in your salvation. Acceptance is a work just like believing according to what you have proposed earlier.

No I didnt, except I was saved by what Christ did.And believing is post salvation

 

[sawdust]

Christ did the work I needed to be saved, God accepted them !

Maybe you should go back and actually read the verse and what I said, for nothing about salvation was even mentioned. It is the word of God that saves, not believing.

If God had decided to save dogs only, should a dog pat itself on the back because it's a dog? Yet, he has determined He will save believers only so why get your knickers in a twist when it's revealed who's a believer and who isn't?

Sometimes I wonder why He would want to save any of us. We're all a bunch of idiots most of the time.

 

[Brightfame52]

Believing or Faith is contrasted with works Salvation because one must be saved already in order to believe in Christ. So when you see verses like Rom 3:22

Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Rom 4:11

And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

1 Cor 1:21

For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Gal 3:22

But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Heb 11:6

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

1 Pet 2:7

Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

Believing is evidence of being in a saved state, not a condition to get into a saved state. When this truth is adhered to, its then believing is in contrast to works salvation or justification 23

 

[Brightfame52]

Maybe you should go back and actually read the verse and what I said, for nothing about salvation was even mentioned. It is the word of God that saves, not believing.

If God had decided to save dogs only, should a dog pat itself on the back because it's a dog? Yet, he has determined He will save believers only so why get your knickers in a twist when it's revealed who's a believer and who isn't?

Sometimes I wonder why He would want to save any of us. We're all a bunch of idiots most of the time.

Once again Christ did the work I needed to be saved, God accepted them!

 

[sawdust]

Once again Christ did the work I needed to be saved, God accepted them!

Why do you keep going on about being saved? Does the verse say believing is how you are saved? Are you going to ignore the fact that it says if you want to receive the "food" that pertains to eternal life then there is a work you must do? It is Christ Himself who tells you what that work is. You cannot continue trying to justify your ignorance with "nice" sounding statements like "Christ did all the work". No-one doubts that but you didn't receive His sacrifice as if it fell from heaven like manna without doing what you are told and believing on the word of God. Just as the Israelites had to do what they were told to receive the manna by picking it up, so we must be believing. Our believing isn't what causes our salvation anymore than the gathering caused the manna to fall. So stop resisting and start understanding.

 

[Brightfame52]

A persons believing is a gracious gift God gives, its a preternatural operation enacted by God on spiritually dead people. Its given to a person to believe on Christ Phil 1:29 since its something men cannot naturally do.

 

[sawdust]

A persons believing is a gracious gift God gives, its a preternatural operation enacted by God on spiritually dead people. Its given to a person to believe on Christ Phil 1:29 since its something men cannot naturally do.

Considering God wants all men to be saved (1Tim.2:4), you think He would do a better job at making all people believe. Plus, why would He tell us to do something that is really up to Him to do anyway?

I don't think you understand the difference between believing something and having faith. We can't have faith without the word of God. (Rom.10:17) but people are designed to believe, it's the basis for learning. We all believe something, it's how we live, learn and grow. Who and what we believe determines the life we have for either the Lord God is our source or the lies and corruption of the evil one is our source. Our choice, not God's.

Joshua 24:15
But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve.

 

[Brightfame52]

Considering God wants all men to be saved (1Tim.2:4), you think He would do a better job at making all people believe. Plus, why would He tell us to do something that is really up to Him to do anyway?

I don't think you understand the difference between believing something and having faith. We can't have faith without the word of God. (Rom.10:17) but people are designed to believe, it's the basis for learning. We all believe something, it's how we live, learn and grow. Who and what we believe determines the life we have for either the Lord God is our source or the lies and corruption of the evil one is our source. Our choice, not God's.

Joshua 24:15
But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve.

You way off, best you start back at the op friend.

 

[Brightfame52]

Believing is one of works God has ordained each new creation of His to walk in. Eph 2:10

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Thats why believing Faith can be contrasted with works for Salvation, when its a work post Salvation ! 23

 

[Brightfame52]

The only time believing isn't a work is when its understood that the Faith in which a believer believes did not originate from within him or her self, but it was granted to them by Sovereign Grace, otherwise believing faith defaults to a work of man naturally from within himself.

 

[Brightfame52]

puppet

Decisional Regeneration can only be
termed works-righteousness !

No sir, but its certainly included.

You say: "Actual grace means those
graces that lead to actions". ALL grace
in this life leads to actions. God's grace
ISN'T passive ...it has ~results~ in the
lives of those He applies it to !

You not understanding. You seem to be going into a different direction.

Sanctifying Grace vs. some sort of
Motivating Grace is an artificial and false
distinction invented as a rationalization
for bad theology.

Grace + Works = Salvation

ISN'T grace, it's semi-Pelagian
works righteousness !

You talking about something different.

 

[Bobber]

Its the definition of a work. See op please

Your willing to accept is a work !

And the fact is you don't really believe that. Imagine a Christmas tree with many presents and a child merely accepts them and opens them up. He goes and tells his friends, "Yeah my parents and I worked for these" His parents hear this and correct him...."You didn't work for these. You father and I did!" He responds, "Nope I accepted them I received them which means I worked for them! My doing my part constitutes a work!"

So Brightframe really what would you say to that? Would you tell us it makes sense if your offspring would be saying that to you? You might even consider getting him psychiatric counseling to figure out how he can reason in such a strange way. That's right, correct? But that's the same when you say one merely receiving God's grace and gift of life because he accepts it, because he did that means it's a work. I therefore don't believe Calvinsits have thought through on what they're saying.

 

[Bobber]

Call it what you want, a choice or whatever, it boils down to you proclaiming Salvation is by your works, which is a damnable heresy my friend.

You do know you're a rather extreme Calvinist. Calvinists claim at least most that you don't have to be a Calvinist to be saved. It seems you are.

Truth is it's not a work by choosing to receive God's grace no more would it be for a drowning man to accept, reach out and take a life preserver from one throwing it his way. Nobody, and I mean nobody would come ashore claiming they had a part in saving themselves merely by accepting help. All the praise would go to the one who threw out the preserver. You know that, I know that and everyone knows that.

 

[Brightfame52]

bobber

And the fact is you don't really believe that.

Sure I believe it, to accept something requires action, it requires thought

Imagine a Christmas tree with many presents and a child merely accepts them and opens them up.

Thats action, he accepts them and opens them up

"Yeah my parents and I worked for these" His parents hear this and correct him...."You didn't work for these. You father and I did!" He responds, "Nope I accepted them I received them which means I worked for them! My doing my part constitutes a work!"

He did a work when when he accepted them, just not in the same fashion as the parents did. There is no way you can get around the fact that accepting something is a action. Lets take it to the next step, wonder if the child didnt want the gift under the tree, is it still a gift from the parents ? Is the childs refusal to accept the gift an action ?

 

[Brightfame52]

bobber

Truth is it's not a work by choosing to receive God's grace no more would it be for a drowning man to accept, reach out and take a life preserver from one throwing it his way.

See Grace makes one alive, so wonder if the person drowned and is dead, could the life preserver help ?

Grace saves from death Eph 2:5

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

That word quickened means make alive or give life to. So ones reception of grace is passive, when one is raised from the dead, they are passive and thats how God gives grace. God doesnt offer a dead man grace, He gives it to them.

This concept of God offering grace isnt in the scripture. Its man made !

 

[Brightfame52]

If a person says that they were saved after they obeyed, or after they believed, this person is in essence saying, salvation is of myself, of my work, and whether they admit it or not, they have something to boast of. Yet Gods word insists that salvation is the Gift of God, not of man, its not of works lest any man boast Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.23

 

[Receivedgrace]

Paul must have taught false doctrine. He taught man has to take action to be saved.
Ro 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Philippian jailer.
Ac 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

It is not a work to receive God's offer of salvation. Work is going about to establish righteousness apart from God.
Romans 10:1 ¶ Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Context is a pesky necessity when it comes to properly dividing the word of God.