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Is baptism neccesary for salvation?

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by Martin Luther, May 5, 2002.

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  1. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    thunder, I believe what you're missing is context ;) would you like to ponit out one verse, so we might address it?
     
  2. Job_38

    Job_38 <font size="1"> In perfect orbit they have circled

    +1
  3. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +62
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    "The baptism itself does not bring salvation; salvation inspires the water baptism. "

    GREAT WAY TO EXPLAIN IT!!!! Its a sanctification act...good article.
     
  4. Job_38

    Job_38 <font size="1"> In perfect orbit they have circled

    +1
    Bible.com has a whole section of Bible Answers, chek em out.
     
  5. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +37


    The Contemporary English Version of Matthew 3:13-15 is rendered thus: (13) Jesus left Galilee and went to the Jordan river to be BAPTIZED by John. (14) But John kept objecting and said, 'I ought to be BAPTIZED&nbsp; by you. Why have you come to me? (15) Jesus answered: "For now, this is how it should be, because we MUST do ALL that God wants US to do." Then John agreed.

    Thus, we can see that&nbsp;BAPTISM is truly&nbsp;NECESSARY for SALVATION. Baptism is the FULFILLMENT of ALL righteousness and this is what God WANTS everyone to DO.

    Jesus said: "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord' shall ENTER the kingdom of heaven but he who DOES the WILL of my Father in heaven" (Matt. 7:21). BAPTISM is God's WILL because it FULFILLS all righteousness. Hence, anyone who is NOT baptized has NOT done God's WILL and will NOT be saved.

    However, NOT every BAPTISM leads to SALVATION. As we all know, there are FALSE teachers who&nbsp;BAPTIZE people into FALSE churches. BAPTISM into a FALSE church does NOT fulfill all RIGHTEOUSNESS and that is NOT what God wants us to do.

    The church is the BODY of Christ of which Christ is the HEAD (Col. 1:18). Christ GAVE his life for his BODY (Eph. 5:25). Christ PURCHASED his church with his blood (Acts 20:28). Christ is the SAVIOR of his BODY, the church (Eph. 5:23).

    Apostle Paul wrote that Christ who knew no sin died for us that we might become God's RIGHTEOUSNESS in him (2 Cor. 5:21).

    God's RIGHTEOUSNESS is that "each man must die foir his own sin" (Deut. 24:16).Thus, to FULFILL God's RIGHTEOUSNESS in Christ, we MUST be BAPTIZED into Christ's BODY so that Christ&nbsp;CAN die&nbsp;for OUR (the body) sins which have been made HIS sin because he is the HEAD of the BODY whose sins he died for. That BODY is the CHURCH.

    Thus, although BAPTISM is necessary for salvation, NOT all BAPTISMS lead to salvation. You must be BAPTIZED into the TRUE church of Christ.

    &nbsp;

    Ed

    &nbsp;

    &nbsp;

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    &nbsp;



    &nbsp;
     
  6. Susan

    Susan 退屈させた1 つ (bored one)

    +120
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    And let me guess. You believe that church is the Iglesia Ni Cristo. :sigh:

    I miss the days when someone whom I liked very much discussed that topic with you. . .it was interesting to watch, hehe, but I guess it's my turn now. :sigh:

    Why do you believe the INC is THE church? Where is it any better Scripturally than any other Christian denomination or church? :confused:
     
  7. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +37
    Hi Susan!

    You are right. That church, I believe, is the IGLESIA NI CRISTO. Why do I believe the INC is "THE" church?

    First of all, I am a member of the IGLESIA NI CRISTO which reflects the soundness (or lack of it) of my judgment. You see, choosing a religion or church is also a matter of judgment.

    Second of all, my judgment is based on&nbsp;what the Bible says, to wit:

    "Check these witches' words against the word of God!" he says.&nbsp; "If their messages are DIFFERENT than mine, it is because I have NOT sent them; for they have NO light or truth in them" (Isaiah 8:20 The Loving Bible).

    "...I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy" (Rev. 19:10).

    The IGLESIA NI CRISTO teaches doctrines of God and she has the "testimony of Jesus" whhich is the "spirit of prophecy."

    Ed

    &nbsp;
     
  8. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    yup, to be saved you have to be in a certain physical location susan ;) ...NOT.

    As for the subject, you don't have to be baptised to be saved, the theif on the cross is a perfect example of that.
     
  9. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +37
    Hi Susan!

    Don't be like Eve who was deceived by the craftiness of the serpent. The thief was fortunate that Jesus was around to forgive his sins at that instant without going through the normal process. How I wish Jesus were here right now to validate what Louis believes about baptism being not necessary for salvation.

    Unfortunately, Jesus won't be here until his second coming. And that would be too late! So what is there to do? Should you place your future in eternity on the hands of Louis or shouldn't you simply put your faith and trust in God's word and OBEY what our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ taught?

    Jesus said: "I am the door. If anyone&nbsp; ENTERS by me, he will be saved" (John 10:9). Jesus says he is the door of the sheep (John 10:7). Thus, if Jesus is the door of the sheep and he INVITES everyone to ENTER by him, then he must be referring to BECOMING a member of the FLOCK or ENTERING the FOLD.

    That FLOCK is the CHURCH (Acts 20:28), his BODY, of which he is the HEAD (Col. 1:18). Hence, Jesus WANTS everyone who desires to be saved to ENTER his church or BECOME a member of his church.

    Can one ENTER the church or BECOME a member of the church WITHOUT getting BAPTIZED into it? Absolutely NOT! Thus, only those who have been BAPTIZED into the church will be saved.

    You must BEWARE though because in these last days, there are so many FALSE churches that you can easily get BAPTIZED into one. That BAPTISM will NOT lead you to SALVATION! This must be what Louis Booth has in mind!

    Ed
     
  10. PrinceJeff

    PrinceJeff Well-Known Member

    +0
    Ed are you really equating Louis with the serpent in the garden of Eden? And with all due respect you seem to have a personal vendetta against him.

    As for Jesus being baptized, where he says "he who believes and is baptised will be saved", was Jesus baptism the same as that? Do you believe Jesus needed salvation?
     
  11. Susan

    Susan 退屈させた1 つ (bored one)

    +120
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    yup, to be saved you have to be in a certain physical location susan ...NOT.

    As for the subject, you don't have to be baptised to be saved, the theif on the cross is a perfect example of that.

    Amen to that, Louis. :)
     
  12. Susan

    Susan 退屈させた1 つ (bored one)

    +120
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    Ed's words are in blue. Mine are in black

    First of all, I am a member of the IGLESIA NI CRISTO which reflects the soundness (or lack of it) of my judgment. You see, choosing a religion or church is also a matter of judgment.

    Yes, and one can make horribly bad judgment. Like 900+ persons who joined a church called the "People's Temple" believing it and its leader were the way of salvation.

    All of those&nbsp;people would die in the worst cult-related tragedy in recorded history&nbsp;(at least until the&nbsp;bin Laden&nbsp;Islamic cult attacked America).

    Anyone can&nbsp;make a bad judgment. You are not excepted, it is part of being&nbsp;human.

    &nbsp;&nbsp;"Check these witches' words against the word of God!" he says.&nbsp; "If their messages are DIFFERENT than mine, it is because I have NOT sent them; for they have NO light or truth in them" (Isaiah 8:20 The Loving Bible).

    How can you&nbsp;be sure that&nbsp;the INC itself, rather than mainstream evangelical Christianity,&nbsp;is not described by: "different" and "has no light or truth in them?"&nbsp;Their doctrine and practice seems to run counter to both the Bible and to historic Christian teaching.&nbsp;


    "...I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy" (Rev. 19:10).

    This verse has been twisted to justify more cults than I can think of. A few offhand would be Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, and even the Branch Davidians.

    And how can you again be certain that this verse refers to the INC?

    The IGLESIA NI CRISTO teaches doctrines of God and she has the "testimony of Jesus" whhich is the "spirit of prophecy."

    Yeah? Show me some other proof then, rather than one out of context Scripture&nbsp;verse that has a history of being twisted by every cult under the sun.

    What prophecies has the INC made that no one else has, and what&nbsp;is their accuracy rate? Like how many missed prophecies have they had also?

    Yes,&nbsp;I will admit that the INC *may* somewhere have a few doctrines of God. However, does that justify the rest?

    Let's say I gave you&nbsp;a&nbsp;freshly baked lemon pie. However, I tell you that&nbsp;I replaced half of the lemon juice with&nbsp;soap. Would you eat that? Of course not, and I would challenge your sanity if you requested to.

    Is half lemon and meringue worth soap&nbsp;and a trip to the hospital?

    Is some doctrines of God mixed in with a cultlike organization worth potential personal spiritual disaster?

    Look, I don't know what you have heard about non-INC Christians, but we DO have the testimony of Jesus, as well as that of His Word. Unless by "testimony of Jesus" you are using an INC buzzword and mean something entirely different than "how He has changed our lives and reconciled&nbsp;we who were&nbsp;lost sinners to Himself."

    Ahh, I'm getting tired of this post, and you will probably ignore everything I had to say. But please consider it.
     
  13. PrinceJeff

    PrinceJeff Well-Known Member

    +0
    Great points Susan. :)
     
  14. :)&nbsp; The theif on the cross!

    Let's see if we can be saved just like him.

    • He was face to face with Jesus, can we have that opportunity? No!
    • The theif died before the law of Christ was in affect Heb. 8:13; 9:15-28 you must read to understand.
    • Jesus had power on earth to forgive sins, Matt.9:6.
    • Jesus commanded us to be baptized Mark 16:15-16, after the resurrection, the theif was not there.

    These are just some of the things we must understand about what saves us. :):):)
     
  15. spirituality

    spirituality Well-Known Member

    669
    +92
    Christian
    I think the true valu in baptism is the symbology of it. I mean the water doesn't actually "do" anything (otherwise that would be magic which goes against the religion). The beautiful act of being submerged in the water, submerged in the lords love and light and forgiveness. Having your sins literaly washed away. It certainly is beautiful and the point of it is, in my opinion, more tradition and symbology than anything else. I may be wrong... what do you think?

    Love & Light!
     
  16. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    "The theif died before the law of Christ was in affect Heb. 8:13; 9:15-28 you must read to understand.
    "

    YOu then sir haven't read romans :) Romans 4 explains clearly that they had the same promice we do. The promice of salvation and a savior. So try again :) Christ himself said he had not come to abolish the law, but to fifill it.
     
  17. :) What then is God's power to save men after Jesus went back to heaven? :)
     
  18. DaveKerwin

    DaveKerwin Represent the Most High

    +125
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    No, baptism is not neccesary for salvation. It is an outward sign of your inward committment to Christ, done of out obedience, just like anything else. I got baptised a year after I got saved, not because I HAD to, but because I wanted to. I wanted to honor God. That's all there is to it.
     
  19. eldermike

    eldermike Pray Supporter

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    We are saved by the grace of God alone that He would send His Son to die on a cross to take away past, present and future sins. How can Jesus take the sins of the world away; He's God. Belief in this fact is required, baptism is obedience. Disobedience is sin. Sin was taken away to make salvation possible. Think about that.

    Born of water = natural birth, we were all born of water. Born of Spirit = born again. There is no combination of these two separate births. Jesus said you must be born of water and Spirit in answer to the question; how can a man be born twice?. Water = once, Spirit = twice
     
  20. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild Sheep in Wolf's clothing

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    Baptism as a commandment means that something is added to the all sufficient sacrifice of Jesus. Baptism as a commandment means that something is added to salvation by faith alone.

    Faith would be futile without the sacrifice of the messiah. (something has been added to salvation by faith alone already - the sacrifice of the messiah.)

    The sacrifice of the messiah is of no benefit to a person who does not believe (something has been added to the all sufficient sacrifice of the messiah already - the need for faith.)

    The only criticism raised against stating that baptism is a requirement? the concept violates the concept of the free and unconditional gift of salvation through faith. The fact is, it is not the doctrine of the requirement for baptism that is flawed, but the interpretation of "free and unconditional"
     
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