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Just curious how many here have a pastor or priest who is okay with abortion?
M-Bob
M-Bob
If any priest within Orthodoxy stated that abortion was perfectly fine, an acceptable choice, and not a sin - well he likely wouldn't remain an Orthodox priest for long.
However, in a situation like a pregnancy developing within the Fallopian tubes instead of the uterus, where the mother's life is clearly in grave danger and the child cannot be born ... there would be counseling. With our current medical abilities, there is no way to save both mother and child, and both will die if nothing is done.
Even if a woman simply chooses to abort a child, that can be forgiven of course. Someone who has done so is not beyond the grace of God, just as Saul/Paul wasn't by having murdered Christians. But we recognize it as a very serious sin, and something that a person needs to come to terms with spiritually in order to be healed and move forward and receive the grace of God.
Anastasia, what you describe in your second paragraph is not "murder". It's a necessity, and not "cold blooded murder" or the "shedding of innocent blood". It's a tragedy that no one has control over or can help.
Getting back to the title of the thread.
What does your pastor or priest have to say regarding abortion?
M-Bob
True. For the sake of completeness I wanted to include a little more info. I have heard people say that even if the pregnancy will result in death of both mother and child, medical intervention cannot be allowed. Though as it often happens, when one sad fact is acknowledged, other questions come in. What about rape? What about incest? What about probable poor quality of life for the child?Anastasia, what you describe in your second paragraph is not "murder". It's a necessity, and not "cold blooded murder" or the "shedding of innocent blood". It's a tragedy that no one has control over or can help.
Does this mean that your leadership teaches that abortion is right or wrong only according to the conscience of the individual, and that no objective morality on the subject exists outside of the person?My church rejects the notion that consciences of Christians can be bound to any particular abortion politics. We can and do disagree and we must respect each others bound conscience.
True. For the sake of completeness I wanted to include a little more info. I have heard people say that even if the pregnancy will result in death of both mother and child, medical intervention cannot be allowed. Though as it often happens, when one sad fact is acknowledged, other questions come in. What about rape? What about incest? What about probable poor quality of life for the child?
Our position would be that LIFE is the important question. Everything possible should be done to allow mother and child to live. No other consideration overrides that.
(Again for completeness, that does NOT mean that a person at the end of life MUST receive every possible medical intervention to continue life as long as possible. If they want it, they should have it. As it would be allowable to have any pain relief that might ease suffering. But if they wish to allow NATURAL death, that is not a sin. Hastening or causing death unnaturally would be wrong though.)
I have heard people say that even if the pregnancy will result in death of both mother and child, medical intervention cannot be allowed.
Does this mean that your leadership teaches that abortion is right or wrong only according to the conscience of the individual, and that no objective morality on the subject exists outside of the person?
Not everything I said was in direct reply to you. Please forgive me. But that is why I saidPardon my confusion, but what has any of this got to do with any of my posts?
For the sake of completeness
Were those people Christian scientists? I do not know any other religious denominatino that frowns on all medical intervention no matter what the problem is. IMO God would not want the mother to die when she is pregnant. The embryo/fetus would die too before 35 weeks.
The whole notion of "leadership" needs some unpacking (as we really have no Master but Christ). Our "leaders" are pastors called by God and by the Church to preach the Gospel and administer the sacraments. We consider human beings deeply sinful and the Church is made of human beings that are equally sinful (the Church is NOT infallible in that way), therefore the Church has no right to compel anyone to do things contrary to their bound conscience that is not in accordance with the Word of God and clear reason. The Church may help the individual in moral deliberation, but the Church should respect the individual's moral agency over their own lives.
Here is our denomination's social statement on abortion. Our social statements should be understood as persuasive rather than coercive, descriptive rather than prescriptive:
Abortion
Here is an article by Pr. Ed Knudson explaining Lutheran ethics, especially pertaining to abortion. Even if you disagree with where he is coming from (he's discussing it in the context of the murder of Dr. George Tiller in 2009), it is a good resource for understanding the Evangelical Lutheran perspective in plain English:
http://religiondispatches.org/on-religion-abortion-and-politics-dr-george-tillers-christian-ethics/
Please note that Dr. George Tiller's vocation is not the only possible Lutheran understanding of abortion ethics. There are Pro-Life Lutherans just as there are Pro-Choice Lutherans. The Lutheran approach is to respect the individual's bound conscience and to encourage people to discern their vocation through a dynamic process that occurs within the person's own subjectivity, shaped by the sacramental life of the Church.
Thank you for the explanation. That helps me to understand what you were saying.