Is anyone's Pastor or Priest okay with abortion? POLL

Your pastor or priest is ok with abortion

  • Yes

    Votes: 3 12.0%
  • No

    Votes: 22 88.0%

  • Total voters
    25

brinny

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I voted "no". No Pastor, Minister, Bishop, i've ever had has ever been in favor of the shedding of innocent blood. It's cold blooded murder of the "least of these" with no voice of their own. It's one of the seven things specifically listed in His Word that God abhors (hates).

It is sin.
 
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brinny

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Just a note: It is written that blood that is shed cries out to God, just as Abel's blood cried out to God, and the martyr's blood cries out to God. The blood of these li'l ones cry out to God. Even if we cannot hear their cries, God does.
 
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~Anastasia~

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If any priest within Orthodoxy stated that abortion was perfectly fine, an acceptable choice, and not a sin - well he likely wouldn't remain an Orthodox priest for long.

However, in a situation like a pregnancy developing within the Fallopian tubes instead of the uterus, where the mother's life is clearly in grave danger and the child cannot be born ... there would be counseling. With our current medical abilities, there is no way to save both mother and child, and both will die if nothing is done.

Even if a woman simply chooses to abort a child, that can be forgiven of course. Someone who has done so is not beyond the grace of God, just as Saul/Paul wasn't by having murdered Christians. But we recognize it as a very serious sin, and something that a person needs to come to terms with spiritually in order to be healed and move forward and receive the grace of God.
 
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Mountainmanbob

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Our pastor volunteers a lot of his time at a pro-life Center in El Cajon California.

Obviously he is against abortion.

I wonder how many times God has used my pastor as a tool so as to save a little life?

There would be some rewards in heaven for that I would think?

M-Bob
 
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brinny

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If any priest within Orthodoxy stated that abortion was perfectly fine, an acceptable choice, and not a sin - well he likely wouldn't remain an Orthodox priest for long.

However, in a situation like a pregnancy developing within the Fallopian tubes instead of the uterus, where the mother's life is clearly in grave danger and the child cannot be born ... there would be counseling. With our current medical abilities, there is no way to save both mother and child, and both will die if nothing is done.

Even if a woman simply chooses to abort a child, that can be forgiven of course. Someone who has done so is not beyond the grace of God, just as Saul/Paul wasn't by having murdered Christians. But we recognize it as a very serious sin, and something that a person needs to come to terms with spiritually in order to be healed and move forward and receive the grace of God.

Anastasia, what you describe in your second paragraph is not "murder". It's a necessity, and not "cold blooded murder" or the "shedding of innocent blood". It's a tragedy that no one has control over or can help.
 
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Mountainmanbob

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Anastasia, what you describe in your second paragraph is not "murder". It's a necessity, and not "cold blooded murder" or the "shedding of innocent blood". It's a tragedy that no one has control over or can help.

Getting back to the title of the thread.
What does your pastor or priest have to say regarding abortion?
M-Bob
 
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FireDragon76

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My church rejects the notion that consciences of Christians can be bound to any particular abortion politics. We can and do disagree and we must respect each others bound conscience.
 
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~Anastasia~

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Anastasia, what you describe in your second paragraph is not "murder". It's a necessity, and not "cold blooded murder" or the "shedding of innocent blood". It's a tragedy that no one has control over or can help.
True. For the sake of completeness I wanted to include a little more info. I have heard people say that even if the pregnancy will result in death of both mother and child, medical intervention cannot be allowed. Though as it often happens, when one sad fact is acknowledged, other questions come in. What about rape? What about incest? What about probable poor quality of life for the child?

Our position would be that LIFE is the important question. Everything possible should be done to allow mother and child to live. No other consideration overrides that.

(Again for completeness, that does NOT mean that a person at the end of life MUST receive every possible medical intervention to continue life as long as possible. If they want it, they should have it. As it would be allowable to have any pain relief that might ease suffering. But if they wish to allow NATURAL death, that is not a sin. Hastening or causing death unnaturally would be wrong though.)
 
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~Anastasia~

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My church rejects the notion that consciences of Christians can be bound to any particular abortion politics. We can and do disagree and we must respect each others bound conscience.
Does this mean that your leadership teaches that abortion is right or wrong only according to the conscience of the individual, and that no objective morality on the subject exists outside of the person?


ETA:


(I'm not baiting you btw and I have no desire to argue. No promises others won't of course. I'm just wanting to understand if that's what you really mean?)
 
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brinny

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True. For the sake of completeness I wanted to include a little more info. I have heard people say that even if the pregnancy will result in death of both mother and child, medical intervention cannot be allowed. Though as it often happens, when one sad fact is acknowledged, other questions come in. What about rape? What about incest? What about probable poor quality of life for the child?

Our position would be that LIFE is the important question. Everything possible should be done to allow mother and child to live. No other consideration overrides that.

(Again for completeness, that does NOT mean that a person at the end of life MUST receive every possible medical intervention to continue life as long as possible. If they want it, they should have it. As it would be allowable to have any pain relief that might ease suffering. But if they wish to allow NATURAL death, that is not a sin. Hastening or causing death unnaturally would be wrong though.)

Pardon my confusion, but what has any of this got to do with any of my posts?
 
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GodLovesCats

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I have heard people say that even if the pregnancy will result in death of both mother and child, medical intervention cannot be allowed.

Were those people Christian scientists? I do not know any other religious denominatino that frowns on all medical intervention no matter what the problem is. IMO God would not want the mother to die when she is pregnant. The embryo/fetus would die too before 35 weeks.
 
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FireDragon76

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Does this mean that your leadership teaches that abortion is right or wrong only according to the conscience of the individual, and that no objective morality on the subject exists outside of the person?

The whole notion of "leadership" needs some unpacking (as we really have no Master but Christ). Our "leaders" are pastors called by God and by the Church to preach the Gospel and administer the sacraments. We consider human beings deeply sinful and the Church is made of human beings that are equally sinful (the Church is NOT infallible in that way), therefore the Church has no right to compel anyone to do things contrary to their bound conscience that is not in accordance with the Word of God and clear reason. The Church may help the individual in moral deliberation, but the Church should respect the individual's moral agency over their own lives.

Here is our denomination's social statement on abortion. Our social statements should be understood as persuasive rather than coercive, descriptive rather than prescriptive:

Abortion

Here is an article by Pr. Ed Knudson explaining Lutheran ethics, especially pertaining to abortion. Even if you disagree with where he is coming from (he's discussing it in the context of the murder of Dr. George Tiller in 2009), it is a good resource for understanding the Evangelical Lutheran perspective in plain English:

http://religiondispatches.org/on-religion-abortion-and-politics-dr-george-tillers-christian-ethics/

Please note that Dr. George Tiller's vocation is not the only possible Lutheran understanding of abortion ethics. There are Pro-Life Lutherans just as there are Pro-Choice Lutherans. The Lutheran approach is to respect the individual's bound conscience and to encourage people to discern their vocation through a dynamic process that occurs within the person's own subjectivity, shaped by the sacramental life of the Church.
 
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~Anastasia~

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Pardon my confusion, but what has any of this got to do with any of my posts?
Not everything I said was in direct reply to you. Please forgive me. But that is why I said

For the sake of completeness

This topic tends to engender a lot of debate, so rather than give short replies that could lead to certain misunderstandings and debate, I chose to give more nuanced answers.

Forgive me if this for some reason causes you to be bothered?
 
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~Anastasia~

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Were those people Christian scientists? I do not know any other religious denominatino that frowns on all medical intervention no matter what the problem is. IMO God would not want the mother to die when she is pregnant. The embryo/fetus would die too before 35 weeks.

I actually had in mind some extremely fundamentalist types. But I suppose for Christian Scientists it would be likely as well.

Not within a particular denomination, but there are some types (sometimes because of their charismatic bent, but sometimes others as well) who consider anything besides prayer and trust in God in such situations to be sin.

I agree with you that God's ideal is to support life. I also believe God uses the wisdom of the world at times for the sake of a person's health. St. Luke the evangelist was a physician, and he never denounced it as a profession.
 
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~Anastasia~

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Thank you for the explanation. That helps me to understand what you were saying.

The whole notion of "leadership" needs some unpacking (as we really have no Master but Christ). Our "leaders" are pastors called by God and by the Church to preach the Gospel and administer the sacraments. We consider human beings deeply sinful and the Church is made of human beings that are equally sinful (the Church is NOT infallible in that way), therefore the Church has no right to compel anyone to do things contrary to their bound conscience that is not in accordance with the Word of God and clear reason. The Church may help the individual in moral deliberation, but the Church should respect the individual's moral agency over their own lives.

Here is our denomination's social statement on abortion. Our social statements should be understood as persuasive rather than coercive, descriptive rather than prescriptive:

Abortion

Here is an article by Pr. Ed Knudson explaining Lutheran ethics, especially pertaining to abortion. Even if you disagree with where he is coming from (he's discussing it in the context of the murder of Dr. George Tiller in 2009), it is a good resource for understanding the Evangelical Lutheran perspective in plain English:

http://religiondispatches.org/on-religion-abortion-and-politics-dr-george-tillers-christian-ethics/

Please note that Dr. George Tiller's vocation is not the only possible Lutheran understanding of abortion ethics. There are Pro-Life Lutherans just as there are Pro-Choice Lutherans. The Lutheran approach is to respect the individual's bound conscience and to encourage people to discern their vocation through a dynamic process that occurs within the person's own subjectivity, shaped by the sacramental life of the Church.
 
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FireDragon76

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Thank you for the explanation. That helps me to understand what you were saying.

Sure.

The issue is more complicated than simply "Does your pastor like abortion?" So I felt the need to offer an alternative perspective.

I suspect Pastor doesn't particularly like abortion, but he also recognizes his own sentiments on the matter are not the controlling interest in what he will preach about, and that scandalizing a congregation over a contentious issue in which people disagree isn't exactly what he has been called to do. Lutheran pastors do not generally mix politics and religion in that manner just to feel like they are on the right side of an issue.
 
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