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Featured Is abortion or Birth control ever good?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by mathinspiration, Feb 12, 2018.

  1. mathinspiration

    mathinspiration Member

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    Is it or not?
     
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  2. Tom Farebrother

    Tom Farebrother Optimistic sceptic Supporter

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    I don’t see what the issue is with birth control, if you mean contraception.
    Abortion is the killing of a person. In rare situations where the mother’s life is potentially at risk then she should be the one who makes the choice, I don’t think anyone else can make that choice.
     
  3. daleksteve

    daleksteve Well-Known Member

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    Nothing wrong with Birth Control. Its only the catholics who have such a stupid hang up over it.

    Abortion though is a different matter. Its wrong and murder if the fetus is actually alive, but its a case of where do you draw the line between something being a load of cells or being sentient and alive.
     
  4. grasping the after wind

    grasping the after wind That's grasping after the wind

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    Can't make a statement on birth control but abortion is never a good thing IMO. It may become a necessity to save the mother's life but being necessary is not the same as being good.
     
  5. daleksteve

    daleksteve Well-Known Member

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    Is a fetus a person? At one stage its just a load of cells.
     
  6. Tom Farebrother

    Tom Farebrother Optimistic sceptic Supporter

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    You and me are just a load of cells, from a materialist’s point of view.
     
  7. grasping the after wind

    grasping the after wind That's grasping after the wind

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    Even if we were talking of only a group of cells I cannot see killing them as a good thing. What about killing a bunch of cells would be considered a good thing?
     
  8. grasping the after wind

    grasping the after wind That's grasping after the wind

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    Birth Control could be considered a good thing if it kept people from having children they would abuse or having an abortion. As avoiding either of those things seems like a good thing to me. I am assuming that in this discussion Birth Control includes only abstinence and non abortive contraceptive methods. as the OP differentiated birth control from abortion.
     
  9. ☦Marius☦

    ☦Marius☦ Orthodox Hillbilly Supporter

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    The reason Catholics have such a "stupid hang up on it" as you so elegantly put it, is because some Catholics believed that the sole purpose of sex is procreation. Therefore to interfere in the natural workings of fertilization is to interfere with God's will for a couple to have children. While sex is meant to be enjoyable, I tend to agree that the purpose of sex is not just enjoyment. Unity, yes- Love yes, but also procreation. That being said I don't really have a problem myself with birth control, but all of it has its own risks.

    The hormonal pills can ruin the bodily health of a woman, and I've even heard claims that many women who have brain aneurysms have them because of the pill.

    Condoms are a gamble,

    Abortion is unacceptable. The only time I see it as being morally grey and should be met with some understanding is in the case of rape. And even then I think a Christian woman should put the life of another over her own.
     
  10. daleksteve

    daleksteve Well-Known Member

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    Cells die all the time
     
  11. daleksteve

    daleksteve Well-Known Member

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    Good point. We are sentient though, when does a fetus become sentient? Until that point it is not actually alive.
     
  12. Tom Farebrother

    Tom Farebrother Optimistic sceptic Supporter

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    How does anyone determine that? What started as a clump of cells in my mother’s womb is now me. How can anyone say at what point it wasn’t me? If you don’t believe in the soul, then where do you set the point at which a person becomes conscious? If you do then how can it be decided at what point a person comes into existence? Abortion is the deliberate termination of a life. Whether a person is aborted before they look like a person or run over when they are 90, that person has still been killed.
     
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  13. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    Is a fetus a "person"?

    You Betcha!

    Legally USA!: should be! Reverse: "Roe vs Wade"!!

    Medically! YES...a person is a person no matter how small...Dr. Seuss... life begins at conception of first cell.

    Spiritually!: YES! God puts SPIRIT into the developing Body/Soul combo, its "house".

    Job 33:4
    “The Spirit of God has made me,
    And the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

    Isaiah 42:5
    Thus says God the Lord,
    Who created the heavens and stretched them out,
    Who spread out the earth and its offspring,
    Who gives breath to the people on it (Body/Soul combo)
    And SPIRIT to those who walk in it,

    Zechariah 12:1B
    Thus declares the Lord
    who stretches out the heavens,
    lays the foundation of the earth, and
    forms the SPIRIT of man within him,(Body/Soul combo)

    Psalm 139:13
    For You formed my inward parts; (Body/Soul combo)
    You wove me (SPIRIT + BODY + SOUL) in my mother’s womb.

    Ecclesiastes 12...Remember God in Your Youth: AT DEATH...
    7 then the dust (Body/Soul combo) will return to the earth as it was, (SEE: Genesis 2:7)
    and the SPIRIT (ruwach)(breath of life) will return to God who gave it. (SEE: Genesis 1:26 SPIRITUAL image)
    8 “Vanity of vanities,” says the Preacher, “all is vanity

    John 6:63...Jesus:
    It is the Spirit who gives life;
    the flesh profits nothing;
    the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.
     
  14. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    SEX:

    Unity of the one flesh bond of married husband and wife. Genesis 2:24

    Eros / EROTIC Love FOR PLEASURABLE ATTRACTION and enjoyment. REF: Song of Soloman

    Procreation...Be fruitful and mutiply
    Genesis 1:28; Genesis 9:1,7
     
  15. grasping the after wind

    grasping the after wind That's grasping after the wind

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    People die all the time too. that does not make intentionally killing either of them a good thing.
     
  16. tz620q

    tz620q Regular Member Supporter

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    This is why miscarriage is not the same as abortion. One is a natural event and assumed to be in the will of God. The other is a man-made intention to kill and suborns God's power of creation.
     
  17. tz620q

    tz620q Regular Member Supporter

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    One could make the same claim about the elderly, the handicapped, people in vegetative states. And man has made those decisions in the past and even today to kill them in various ways. Think about this, in the U.S. there is supposed to be a Right to Life, Liberty, and Happiness. To deprive a person of those rights requires a serious misconduct on their part and a court's decision to terminate these rights. In the groups that I mentioned, where is the misconduct that leads to this termination and where is the right of the person on "trial" to be confronted with their accusers? In our ultra-convenient modern world, when is life seen as just another inconvenience?
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
  18. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    "For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb." Psalm 139:13
     
  19. Archivist

    Archivist Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Have you read the Roe decision? It did not discuss whether a fetus is or is not a person. Rather the Court decided that the pregnant woman's right to privacy extended to her decision to have an abortion, but that right was balanced against the state's interests in regulating abortions. In a nutshell the ruling held that the state could not ban abortions during the first trimester, could restrict but not absolutely ban abortions during the second trimester and could ban abortions during the third trimester so long as exceptions were allowed for the life and health of the pregnant woman.
     
  20. daleksteve

    daleksteve Well-Known Member

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    Sorry you can't make that comparision. People are sentient and have a soul, cells do not.
     
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