Is a 'personal relationship with Jesus' the Gospel?

[OnlyBelieve]

Is having a personal relationship with Jesus part of the gospel message?

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ Matthew 7:21-23

[/quote]

Here's a few things to think about,
1. The TERM relationship is not used in the bible (to my knowledge) but we KNOW there were many thousands of relationships in the bible.

2. The english version of the bible, does NOT have the same desciption as used in the hebrew or greek.

So let's look at the word "knew". It first appears in Genesis (hebrew)

1. Genesis 3:7
   And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
2. Genesis 4:1
   And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
3. Genesis 4:25
   And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

The meaning of "knew" comes from "know" which in hebrew, means, to have intimate knowledge or intimate friends.

Now you can't have intimate knowledge of someone who you are not friends with, who you don't hold a relationship with, it is NOT talking about sex, but relationship.
Jesus says "depart from me I never knew you"
Sometimes to gain a better understanding of the bible we need to do a flip and look at the opposite, like this, if Jesus says, I never had intimate knowledge of you, then he must WANT us to HAVE intimate knowledge of him. Like "love one another" we KNOW that we cannot hate, harm, hurt, etc, it is the flip.
To gain a better understanding also, we must look at the hebrew or greek meaning to words within the bible. Which one is determined by where the word is first recorded, New(greek) or OLD (hebrew)
There are other verses which you can cross reference with this try these to start. Jn 4:42 See also Mt 9:4-8 pp Mk 2:8-12 pp Lk 5:22-26; Jn 10:38; Jn 14:11
Hosea 4:6a My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee,

Peace

 

[Alive_Again]

It's a sad fact I have discovered in my Christian life. There are a lot of pious, religious, stable folk in all churches who are not born again.

Jesus said to see or enter the Kingdom 'You must be born again'.

Of course their are many who go to church and have not been born again.

There are also many who have been born again and do not walk intimately with the Lord, doing His commandments. He writes them on the heart. He circumcises our hearts, and His Spirit voice "writes" His laws on "fleshy tablets of the heart". We can become dull and hard of hearing. If you don't hear, you can't really do His commandments. At times we must circumcise our hearts and become sensitive to His voice. Without this their is no intimate walk with the Lord. You can still move in the anointing and prophesy, cast out devils, etc. (which you can't begin to do without being born of the Spirit). He's looking for someone to do what He's saying. It's a day by day choice to follow.

It is possible to not walk worthy of Him and have been born again. Being born again gives you a nature you have ability to choose to walk in. You still have the "sinful flesh" nature as well you must deny. That's why we must earnestly contend for the faith diligently. You can fall short of the grace being given to you. We must band together in unity and be obedient. We must encourage each other or we will not enter in.

There are those who are willfully ignorant of this and they stand to get a rude awakening when they appear before God. The Word that He spoke will judge us on the last day. As anyone can see, all of this is in the Word and these very sayings warn each of us that we are accountable to perform it (by grace).

 

[Svt4Him]

May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the FEELLOWSHIP of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

 

[Humble Pie]

sprinkled as infants

Baptised.

 

[Yitzchak]

Break down the term relationship to the word relate as in being related to someone. In other words , it means to be a relative or to put it in a nicer term to be family.

Or as it is used in the modern context , to be connected to someone. To know someone.

The scripture speaks of us saying abba father. It is not just some idea that someone came up with. It is biblical to speak of us being in relationship with God.

 

[mrhappy3]

Of course their are many who go to church and have not been born again.

There are also many who have been born again and do not walk intimately with the Lord, doing His commandments. He writes them on the heart. He circumcises our hearts, and His Spirit voice "writes" His laws on "fleshy tablets of the heart". We can become dull and hard of hearing. If you don't hear, you can't really do His commandments. At times we must circumcise our hearts and become sensitive to His voice. Without this their is no intimate walk with the Lord. You can still move in the anointing and prophesy, cast out devils, etc. (which you can't begin to do without being born of the Spirit). He's looking for someone to do what He's saying. It's a day by day choice to follow.

It is possible to not walk worthy of Him and have been born again. Being born again gives you a nature you have ability to choose to walk in. You still have the "sinful flesh" nature as well you must deny. That's why we must earnestly contend for the faith diligently. You can fall short of the grace being given to you. We must band together in unity and be obedient. We must encourage each other or we will not enter in.

There are those who are willfully ignorant of this and they stand to get a rude awakening when they appear before God. The Word that He spoke will judge us on the last day. As anyone can see, all of this is in the Word and these very sayings warn each of us that we are accountable to perform it (by grace).

I like this.

Personally, it is God who regenerates, he knows who are his and the ones who are sincere. He grants them life. John 3v8 tells us this. You can't fool him. Altar call or no altar call. Some are born again and don't even know it, they cant explain it, but come to realise in time a change has happened within. God knows the heart.

 

[Yitzchak]

By the way , the Old Testament is also a part of the Gospel message contrary to what some falsely teach today. The proof of that is in the fact that the Apostles who God used to establish the church used the Old Testament as scripture and included that as a foundation for doctrine , teaching , correction , etc.

2 Timothy 3:16

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

The New Testament is filled with Old Testament references as proof texts for whatever lesson the Apostle was teaching the church.For example...

Ephesians 6:1

1Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. 2Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise 3That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

The is from Exodus chapter 20. What some on here refer to as the law which they claim does not apply to the church and yet the Apostle Paul disagrees and uses this passage to instruct the New Testament church.

I have never counted the number but one can hardly get through a chapter of the New Testament without some reference being made to the Old Testament.


What I am saying here is that the Bible is an essential part of the Gospel message. First Jesus , and then The Apostles and then the early church affirmed the entire written word of God known as the Bible as the Gospel message.

Here is a perfect example of what I am speaking about...

Romans chapter 10...

5For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. 6But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above 7Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

This reference in bold is probably Isaiah 49 but the concept is found several places in the Old Testament. The Apostle Paul here references the Old Testament when he says that there is neither Jew nor Greek in the Gospel.

And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me.

Romans chapter 10 continued...

14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Notice the passage from Isaiah referenced as a proof text to support the Apostle Paul's point about the New Testament Gospel.



My point is this. The Gospel message is the Bible. The whole Bible.

Relationship with God started with Adam in the garden. We should always begin our study of doctrine in Genesis and go straight through the entire Bible to Revelation. Taking the whole counsel of scripture as the foundation for the doctrine that we believe. That is what The Apostles did in the inspired writings of the New Testament.

 

[HolySpiritWOF2]

I think that relationship is a crucial part of the Gospel message. We are entering into a covenant relationship. The Gospel is more than just the fact that our sins are forgiven and that we are saved from death. It is also that we are alive forever more and live that eternal life attached to Christ.

May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the FELLOWSHIP of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

The scripture speaks of us saying abba father. It is not just some idea that someone came up with. It is biblical to speak of us being in relationship with God.

Personally, it is God who regenerates, he knows who are his and the ones who are sincere. He grants them life. John 3v8 tells us this. You can't fool him. Altar call or no altar call. Some are born again and don't even know it, they cant explain it, but come to realise in time a change has happened within. God knows the heart.

My point is this. The Gospel message is the Bible. The whole Bible.

Relationship with God started with Adam in the garden. We should always begin our study of doctrine in Genesis and go straight through the entire Bible to Revelation. Taking the whole counsel of scripture as the foundation for the doctrine that we believe. That is what The Apostles did in the inspired writings of the New Testament.

good words... these are all very good points....

 

[All4HISglory]

I believe that relationship was very much demonstrated throughout the Gospels. But more then that I believe that fellowship is more crucial to the relationship.

For example by birth, I am in a sibling relationship with my sisters and brothers but without the fellowship, how good is that relationship?

I believe the same can be said about Jesus. We can look at the Disciples and their relationship with Jesus and see that the relationship was strong because of the fellowship that took place with them and Him on a daily basis.

For me, that why the saying "relationship over religion", doesn't make an impact on me as much as fellowship within the relationship.

This was a great topic.

~For Your glory Lord {iPad}

 

[Laura Phillips]

the Bible said Jesus died so that we could stand innocent before God
That in itself is a relationship, because there was an exchange. The gift of salvation was given.
Weather or not there is any exchange after that or how deep or of what type I think is up to the believer, weather or not they want anything more.
But if you think of it you could call anything a relationship it is nothing more than exchange between two or more parties.

 

[nephilimiyr]

There are a few verses that say we should 'know Him':

John 10:14 ESV
14 I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me,

Hebrews 8:11 ESV
11 And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.

I have no problem with 'altar calls' because they ask people to make a decision. God is looking for a response in peoples hearts not a physical walking forward, but the altar call helps people to form that response.

There is also a Biblical precident for the Holy Spirit coming into a person's heart.


peace,
Simon

But there are literally thousands of ways the preacher can do the alter call, IOW, the words he speaks. I've heard many different ways it's done. The alter call, and the sinner's prayer, is mostly ad- lib, or should be. Otherwise you said it very well by saying the alter call helps people to form the response. I'm sure alot has to do with motivateing people to act upon the response their heart is feeling.

 

[nephilimiyr]

i agree... JESUS said to some very "christian" looking dudes.... depart from ME I never knew you.... i am really taken aback by the red words.... they thought they were christian or born again or something.... but HE said i NEVER knew you.... so to me that sounds like they never got personal with JESUS..... they maybe just did the "sinners prayer"... or converted to religion.... or something that was not truly a NEW CREATION experience....

once someone HAS entered into a deep dwelling/abiding relationship with JESUS by the HOLY SPIRIT.... you just get hungry for MORE of HIM.... and when you get pre-occuppied and don't fellowship with HIM enough your joy fades and you MISS HIM terribly.... and are drawn back to the JOY of your LIFE.... fellowship with JESUS..... fellowship with the HOLY SPIRIT....

john 15 is all about DWELLING/abiding.... it is the only way to bear fruit.... and no fruit means getting cut off.... sounds like the parable of the sower in matthew 13..... not everyone who hears the WORD bears fruit (matures and becomes a NEW CREATION).... i think we don't explain properly to people what born again/ new creation is.... i think too many people think it is a prayer or a religious conversion.... and they never meet JESUS.... and they NEED JESUS..... without JESUS they have NOTHING....


21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ Matthew 7:21-23


4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:4-6

Wonderfully put together!

I was going to say something about this but you did such a throughly good job here that I'll just quote it and say job well done!

In the General Theology Forums I got into a debate over this and just couldn't understand why this one person believed that telling people about having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ was unbiblical and wrong.

 

[HolySpiritWOF2]

Wonderfully put together!

I was going to say something about this but you did such a throughly good job here that I'll just quote it and say job well done!

In the General Theology Forums I got into a debate over this and just couldn't understand why this one person believed that telling people about having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ was unbiblical and wrong.

maybe people don't understand what is meant by a personal relationship with JESUS... and don't see those exact terms in the BIBLE.... this excellent thread is dealing with this topic in-depth..... i think we all come from different camps..... and throw around different terminology that makes things ambiguous.... if we use non-BIBLICAL terminology we need to use SCRIPTURE to make it clear.... awesome thread here.... we are really clarifying a lot of things.... i loved someone's post about it is more accurate to say that our fellowship is with the HOLY SPIRIT.... that has got me digging.... maybe that point should be made more clear to seekers.... GOD BLESS YOU....

 

[nephilimiyr]

maybe people don't understand what is meant by a personal relationship with JESUS... and don't see those exact terms in the BIBLE.... this excellent thread is dealing with this topic in-depth..... i think we all come from different camps..... and throw around different terminology that makes things ambiguous.... if we use non-BIBLICAL terminology we need to use SCRIPTURE to make it clear.... awesome thread here.... we are really clarifying a lot of things.... i loved someone's post about it is more accurate to say that our fellowship is with the HOLY SPIRIT.... that has got me digging.... maybe that point should be made more clear to seekers.... GOD BLESS YOU....

Yeah I think you're right, for the most part alot of us have been taught different ways on how to communicate this even though we all are saying about the samething.