Is 1 John 1:8 about Believers or Christians...?

[Neogaia777]

Is 1 John 1:8 about Believers or Christians...? Or non...?

Or who does it address or apply to...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Is 1 John 1:8 about Believers or Christians...? Or non...?

Or who does it address or apply to...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

The letter is addressed to Born Again Christians. I'm not sure how it could be written to anyone else, did the text give you a hint in that direction?

 

[faroukfarouk]

It's all part of the contextual flow of the Epistle's argument about light and darkness, profession versus actual manner of walking. Unbelievers and believers can both be challenged by the outworking of these principles.

 

[~Anastasia~]

This is not written by John but by heretic. Saints don't have sins.

1 John has always been accepted by the Church. Please don't say it is written by a heretic.

Sin is missing the mark. The mark is Christ. And even the holiest of saints fall short of Christ Himself, and will be very quick to admit it. St. Paul referred to himself as "chief among sinners".

If you are thinking of habitually living in gross sin, then no, Christians should not be doing any such thing. But the tiniest bit of irritation if someone insults you, or failure to do every good thing you can possibly do, or momentary despair, so many things miss the mark. And while we live in the body, these things tend to happen.

 

[1stcenturylady]

1 John 1:8 is NOT about a true Christian, and neither is verse 6 and 10. Read chapter 4:1-3. That is who John is talking about in 1:6, 8 and 10. And that same heresy is being preached today. Ever heard that our past, "present and future" sins are forgiven? Beware of all apathy toward committing present and future sins.

5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Can you honestly say verse 6 is about a true Christian? How can that be when they loved darkness, not God? It corresponds with 3:19 "And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil." EVIL!!! To say this chapter is all about Christians is ludicrous.

Now focus on verse 7 above with regards to the true meaning of 8. So do we still have sin if the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin? Just how weak do they believe the blood of Jesus is? Is sin cleansed today, and back tomorrow??? How many times does Jesus have to die for the same sin? No! Just as 6 does not describe a true Christian, neither does 8 which is similar in wording and meaning to 10.

Since Adam, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. But don't you see that is only until that sin is cleansed when we come to Jesus, never to come back. So all of our past sins are forgiven. 2 Peter 1:9 "For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

That leaves present and future sins to deal with. What is different between those under the law and those under grace is that grace, itself, is now God's power in us to no longer sin, whereas those under the law had no such power, only their weak carnal nature. We walk in the Spirit; therefore, that power of God IN us helps us to not desire the sin of the old nature that is now dead, and made new in Christ. Those without this new nature under the control of the Holy Spirit do not belong to Christ, because they are still choosing darkness over the light.

The Holy Spirit's power in us is why John says in 1 John 3:9 a Christian CANNOT sin. Why, because God doesn't sin. And through grace, God is indwelling us and his laws are written on our hearts.

I'm sorry to say that there are some on this forum who know they do not have any power over sin, and want to stand on 1 John 1:8 and Romans 7 to justify their weakness to choose darkness; both of which are about those BEFORE Christ. (Romans 7 is about those still under the law before coming to Christ.) If that is you, then as Jesus said to the church of Ephesus, "Go back and do the first works." That means to repent from those sins you keep committing and mean it this time. Stop loving darkness. If you do, (vs. 9) He is faithful and just to forgive you and cleanse you of all unrighteousness. And as Acts 2:38 says, Jesus will give you the Holy Spirit to empower you to no longer willfully sin.

 

[JoeP222w]

Is 1 John 1:8 about Believers or Christians...? Or non...?

Or who does it address or apply to...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

It is addressed to believers in Jesus Christ.

 

[Ron Gurley]

Addressed to:
Christ-followers = believers ONLY.

UN-believers sins are NOT forgiven!!

1 JOHN 1 (NASB)…TO BELIEVERS! …God Is Light (NOTE: Dark is absence of Light)
5 This is the message “we” have heard from Him (Jesus) and announce to you, that God is Light,
and in Him there is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have FELLOWSHIP with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not PRACTICE the “truth”;
7 BUT if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have FELLOWSHIP with “one another”,(fellow believers)
and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, (after salvation) we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we CONFESS (AGREE WITH GOD ABOUT) our sins, He is faithful and righteous to FORGIVE us our sins and to CLEANSE us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, (after salvation)we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

Forgiveness of Sins is a spiritual gift and a benefit of salvation.

Matthew 26:28
for this is My blood of the (NEW) covenant, which is poured out for many FOR forgiveness of sins.(who accept)

Luke 1:77
To give to His people the knowledge of salvation (and) By the forgiveness of their sins,

Luke 22:20
And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood.

Acts 10:43
Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.”

Colossians 1:14
in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

1 John 1 (NASB)...Introduction, The Incarnate Word...John the Elder to fellow believing brethren = "we"
1 What was from the beginning,
what we have heard,
what we have seen with our eyes,
what we have looked at and touched with our hands,
concerning the Word (logos) of Life— (SEE: John 1!)
2 and the life was manifested,
and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal (spiritual) life,
which was with the Father and was manifested to us—
3 what we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, so that you too may have fellowship with us;
and indeed our fellowship is with the Father,
and with His Son Jesus Christ.
4 These things we write, so that our joy may be made complete.

 

[redleghunter]

I'm sorry to say that there are some on this forum who know they do not have any power over sin, and want to stand on 1 John 1:8 and Romans 7 to justify their weakness to choose darkness; both of which are about those BEFORE Christ. (

Not true and seems to be a straw man ad hominem to whomever the words may lay on.

It is obvious 1 John, all of it is to washed in the Blood of Christ believers. John knew we are not perfect but makes such abundantly not to be used as an excuse. His theme is we are to be perfect in love towards each other as Christ was perfect in His Love to us.

John knew there would be occasions where our love does not measure up and why he called folks liars for not realizing this. Yet he reiterates we have an Advocate in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of missing the mark.

No one I know of who posts regularly here on CF promotes antinomianism. The notion we can keep our sinful worldly past and expect to take Christ with us in that sin.

The only antinomian type beliefs I see are the sinless perfection types who deny they sin because "they can't anymore."

 

[1stcenturylady]

Not true and seems to be a straw man ad hominem to whomever the words may lay on.

It is obvious 1 John, all of it is to washed in the Blood of Christ believers. John knew we are not perfect but makes such abundantly not to be used as an excuse. His theme is we are to be perfect in love towards each other as Christ was perfect in His Love to us.

John knew there would be occasions where our love does not measure up and why he called folks liars for not realizing this. Yet he reiterates we have an Advocate in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of missing the mark.

No one I know of who posts regularly here on CF promotes antinomianism. The notion we can keep our sinful worldly past and expect to take Christ with us in that sin.

The only antinomian type beliefs I see are the sinless perfection types who deny they sin because "they can't anymore."

6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.

Does that describe a Christian?

 

[Neogaia777]

6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.

Does that describe a Christian?

Why all "this", why not just simply prove your position or disprove theirs...? all else is pretty meaningless...

Is John 1:8 to apply to believer's or born again Christians, or perhaps if it does not apply to mature believers in Christ (but then again, who is really mature, after all...?) or what...?

Simply prove or disprove please...?

God Bless!

 

[redleghunter]

6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.

Does that describe a Christian?

That describes a pastor demonstrating to the sheep how to identify a wolf.

 

[~Anastasia~]

If one cooperates with the grace of God, and walks in the light, of course one should sin less. Usually at the point if conversion (if it is real conversion) there is a great transformation, such that the person himself and those who know him should see a very great difference.

A babe in Christ may think they have no sin, because the difference is so striking to them. But they have yet to learn the true depths of God's own holiness. When they grow a bit, and begin to see a bit more clearly of God's holiness, it begins to become apparent that they are not as holy/righteous/sinless as Christ. That usually begins the realization of their own sin as Christians. It may start right away, if God has not removed a habit that they suddenly realize they are going to have to struggle to overcome. (Sometimes He simply does remove them - other times not.) The habit could be anything from a drug addiction, smoking cigarettes, a tendency to laziness, being prone to getting upset when cut off in traffic, etc. The time it takes to recognize whatever sins one commits can be almost immediate, or much later. It's all in how God teaches each one of us, and sometimes in how we understand "sin".

But of course we shouldn't be committing adultery, robbing banks, murdering people, or stealing senior's pensions. On the other hand, most of us likely will never reach the point of accepting any insult that comes our way with perfect peace, or instantly forgive and sincerely pray for those who might commit terrible acts against us with perfect love and zero struggle to do so. Most of us are somewhere in between those two extremes, hopefully moving to being more like the example Christ sets for us.

 

[Neogaia777]

If one cooperates with the grace of God, and walks in the light, of course one should sin less. Usually at the point if conversion (if it is real conversion) there is a great transformation, such that the person himself and those who know him should see a very great difference.

A babe in Christ may think they have no sin, because the difference is so striking to them. But they have yet to learn the true depths of God's own holiness. When they grow a bit, and begin to see a bit more clearly of God's holiness, it begins to become apparent that they are not as holy/righteous/sinless as Christ. That usually begins the realization of their own sin as Christians. It may start right away, if God has not removed a habit that they suddenly realize they are going to have to struggle to overcome. (Sometimes He simply does remove them - other times not.) The habit could be anything from a drug addiction, smoking cigarettes, a tendency to laziness, being prone to getting upset when cut off in traffic, etc. The time it takes to recognize whatever sins one commits can be almost immediate, or much later. It's all in how God teaches each one of us, and sometimes in how we understand "sin".

But of course we shouldn't be committing adultery, robbing banks, murdering people, or stealing senior's pensions. On the other hand, most of us likely will never reach the point of accepting any insult that comes our way with perfect peace, or instantly forgive and sincerely pray for those who might commit terrible acts against us with perfect love and zero struggle to do so. Most of us are somewhere in between those two extremes, hopefully moving to being more like the example Christ sets for us.

Is the degree to which one truly see's God in all his Holiness and Glory, also the relative to the degree in which one see's their own wickedness...?

If, so, then "is the way of God, adjusted right...?

God Bless!

 

[1stcenturylady]

Why all "this", why not just simply prove your position or disprove theirs...? all else is pretty meaningless...

Is John 1:8 to apply to believer's or born again Christians, or perhaps if it does not apply to mature believers in Christ (but then again, who is really mature, after all...?) or what...?

Simply prove or disprove please...?

God Bless!

I wasn't addressing you seeing as you have not given your own opinion on the verses. I was addressing the person who believes every verse in chapter one describes Christians. That is very dangerous. Please do not treat me as if you are my master. Respect boundaries. I'm not your servant.

 

[Neogaia777]

I wasn't addressing you seeing as you have not given your own opinion on the verses. I was addressing the person who believes every verse in chapter one describes Christians. That is very dangerous. Please do not treat me as if you are my master. Respect boundaries. I'm not your servant.

I was trying to appeal to logic and reason and did not mean it mean it personally in any way, sorry if you felt that way....

And, I just want to know and hear logical opinions on it is all...?

Sorry...

God Bless!

 

[1stcenturylady]

That describes a pastor demonstrating to the sheep how to identify a wolf.

Yes, is the wolf a sheep? No. Not every verse in chapter 1 describes a true Christian. Many use 1 John 1:8 in just such a way. Instead of walking in the light and the blood of Jesus cleanses us of ALL SIN. They claim, "See, verse 8 says everybody still sins, including me." They are dulled in their apathy and do not seek the Holy Spirit by renouncing their sin and turning to God. The difference between a person claiming to be a Christian without the empowering of the Holy Spirit, and one who actually has the Holy Spirit is night and day.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I was trying to appeal to logic and reason and did not mean it mean it personally in any way, sorry if you felt that way....

And, I just want to know and hear logical opinions on it is all...?

Sorry...

God Bless!

That is what I was doing. I was asking this person to use their logic about verse 6. That person in 6 is definitely NOT a true Christian. So why believe verse 8 has to be? When someone has to actually think through the logic, they learn, and hopefully change the error in their mind.

 

[Neogaia777]

And, about not having an opinion, I generally do not (try not to) or like making the mistake of assuming a thing can be known, when it cannot be, if it cannot be (known), either...

And that is what I'm trying to find out, and if it cannot be, why...?

God Bless!

 

[~Anastasia~]

Is the degree to which one truly see's God in all his Holiness and Glory, also the relative to the degree in which one see's their own wickedness...?

If, so, then "is the way of God, adjusted right...?

God Bless!

I would say yes, to your first question. Consider Isaiah, when he saw the glory of the Lord fill the temple - suddenly it was "woe to me, I am undone, I am a man of unclean lips, dwelling among a people of unclean lips, for I have seen the King".

It is the same for us. The more we see the infinite holiness of God, the more aware we become of how far we fall short of it.

As to your second question, I'm not sure exactly what you mean?

 

[redleghunter]

Yes, is the wolf a sheep? No. Not every verse in chapter 1 describes a true Christian. Many use 1 John 1:8 in just such a way. Instead of walking in the light and the blood of Jesus cleanses us of ALL SIN. They claim, "See, verse 8 says everybody still sins, including me." They are dulled in their apathy and do not seek the Holy Spirit by renouncing their sin and turning to God. The difference between a person claiming to be a Christian without the empowering of the Holy Spirit, and one who actually has the Holy Spirit is night and day.

It's a letter to the ekklesia. It is a teaching letter, pastoral.

If John was addressing non believers he would be giving such a speech as in Acts 2, Acts 3 and Acts 17. He is not .