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Irrefutable Bible facts about God's Sabbath

Discussion in 'Traditional Adventists' started by BobRyan, Nov 28, 2018.

  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    First of all -- let's just look at basic irrefutable Bible facts about God's Sabbath.

    1. Jer 31:31-33 the NEW covenant says "I will write My LAW on their heart and mind". Exegesis demands that we admit that the author (Jeremiah in this case) and his primary audience knew that the TEN Commandments were spoken by God Himself and written by God Himself -- in stone. And that the Sabbath is one of them. This is irrefutable. (Note that in Heb 8:6-10 that New Covenant is unchanged from the Jeremiah 31 form)

    2. Both the "Baptist Confession of Faith" (section 19) and the "Westminster Confession of Faith" (section 19) affirm that ALL TEN of the Ten commandments are included in the moral law of God "written on the heart" under the NEW Covenant. This is irrefutable. They do say that.

    3. God says the Sabbath was "made for MANKIND" Mark 2:27 and that "All mankind" is to come before God for worship "From Sabbath to Sabbath" Isaiah 66:23 and in Isaiah 56:5-8 gentiles are specifically singled out for keeping the Sabbath -- this is irrefutable. The text says it.

    4. God says that the saints "KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12 and Paul says "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 .. this is irrefutable.

    5. God says the Sabbath is a day of worship and holy convocation Lev 23:3, Isaiah 66:23 this too is "irrefutable".

    6. God says the Sabbath is not a day for secular activity of any kind - Isaiah 58:13-14. This is irrefutable.

    7. In the OT there were many commands and many promises. In the OT the Ten Commandments were distinguished from all of them because
    a. Only the TEN were kept inside the ark
    b. Only the TEN were written by God Himself on stone.
    c. Only the TEN were spoken directly by God to all Israel.
    e. Only in the unit of TEN do we find the commandment with a promise that starts with "Honor your father and mother" as the FIRST commandment with a promise.

    And in the NT we have that SAME acceptance of the TEN where the 5th commandment is the "first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2

    This too is irrefutable.

    According to Christianity Today - in a Feb 2015 article - the Seventh-day Adventist church is the 5th largest Christian denomination on planet Earth. Adventists: Can Ben Carson's Church Stay Separatist?

    And it has world wide programs on internet, radio, TV as well as a lot of local congregations.

    (I only mention this last point because you ask about the availability of seventh day Sabbath keeping groups - and the Adventist church is one of them)

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
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  2. Lost4words

    Lost4words Jesus I Trust In You Supporter

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    Christians celebrate the ressurection of Our Lord on a sunday, Jews dont.
     
  3. EJ M

    EJ M Member Supporter

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    Could you please elaborate on "keeping the sabbath"
    In the OT God commanded to stone a man for gathering firewood and kindling a fire.
    Is it OK to keep the stove going on Saturday?
    The Jews don't, and some won't start their car or drive either because that also kindles a fire.
    Lots of things we do on Saturday involve buying and selling, including using utilities.
    We pay utilities based on a 30-31 day month so even if we shut off our main breaker on Friday evening we are still paying for the base rate which includes Saturday.
    Many more "Sabbath violations" we cannot reasonably avoid in today's world.
    What to do?
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    1. The Sabbath commandment says nothing about stoning.
    2. Both the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 and the "Westminster Confession of faith" section 19 freely admit to the Bible detail that the Ten Commandments remain for all mankind as the moral law of God while the civil laws about when someone needs to be killed were ended when the theocracy that employed them ended.
    3. Bible rules for Sabbath keeping
    3.a rest - Ex 20:8-11 and remembering that God is Creator and created all life on Earth in 7 days.
    3.b worship - Isaiah 66:23, Lev 23:3 a day of "holy convocation"
    4.c avoiding all secular activity Isaiah 58:13-14

    killing people was never included as an act of worship on Sabbath -- as surprising as that Bible detail can be for some.

    As for public services - Israel had temple guards on Sabbath and Christ approved of healing the sick on Sabbath (before the cross could have been used to delete any law at all)

    Public health and security were provided before the cross and all through the OT on Sabbath - but frankly those who bring up these little things are often the very same people who refuse to do "the obvious" regarding Sabbath as a day of worship, day of rest, day to avoid secular activity, day of "holy convocation", day to remember that God created all life on Earth in 7 literal days.

    Given that as "context" - it raises a question about their question.
     
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    1. True - Jews do not keep Sunday.
    2. True - that many Christians think that Christ's resurrection should be remembered every 7 days on week-day 1 ... even though there is no example of such a thing in all of the Bible.
    3. True - that those same Christians think that the 7 day creation event should be deleted by remembering a one day event from 2000 years ago "every 7 days".
    4. There is not one text in the NT after the cross where the term "Sabbath" means "week day 1" - and there is not one place where the NT says "Christ was resurrected on the 7th day" or the "new 7th day" or "the new Sabbath".
    5. Both Christians and Jews were meeting "every Sabbath" in Acts 18:4 to hear "more gospel preaching".
    6. There is not one text in NT or OT that says "week day 1 is the Lord's day" -- in fact the Lord's day is the Sabbath according to Mark 2:28 "Son of man is LORD of the Sabbath"


    The Bible says that Christians also "keep the Commandments of God and their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12 and some of them know enough to keep Sabbath as one of God's commandments for the Bible says "what matters is keeping the commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19.

    Many Christians "Love God" and have read the Bible enough to know "this IS the Love of God that we keep His commandments" 1 John 5:3-4
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
  6. EJ M

    EJ M Member Supporter

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    Exo 31:12-18
    And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you. Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
    And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.
     
  7. EJ M

    EJ M Member Supporter

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    You are right, stoning was not specified as the method of execution,in the commandment, however the death penalty was clearly decreed for any who did not keep the sabbath in it's entirety.
    Ans the first (of Record)sabbath breaker was in fact stoned.

    Numbers 15:32-36;
    And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.
     
  8. EJ M

    EJ M Member Supporter

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    25) There are a few more biblical commandments to post here, I will get to them when I have more time...
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    The following are commandments that are either outright from the biblical texts, or they are minor decrees that offshoot from the biblical commandments, or that are formulated through the basic foundational law behind the shabat...
    1) You must not cook during the shabat
    2) You must not prepare a plate of food during the shabat
    3) You must not pour yourself a drink during the shabat, thus you must have more than
    enough drinks poured before shabat into glasses or cups.
    4) You must not add wood to a fire during the shabat.
    5) You must not light a candle during the shabat.
    6) You must not add oil to an oil lamp during the shabat; only the priests are allowed to
    do this inside the Temple.
    7) You must not kill an animal for food during the shabat.
    8) You must not pick food out of your garden during the shabat, nor off your trees.
    9) You may move your blanket during the shabat so that you can stay warm.
    10) You must not move your pillow, however, during the shabat, because it has nothing to
    do with trying to stay warm. Therefore, you must fix it how you want it before the shabat
    so that you can lay on it comfortably.
    11) You must not bathe with soap during the shabat, nor put on lotions or creams during
    shabat.
    12) If you have to bathe during the shabat because you accidentally become unclean, or if
    you are already unclean, and you must bathe, it must be done in a flowing body of water
    or large body of water.
    13) Of course, you may pick up a coat during the shabat to put it on, but you must not simply
    carry it around.
    14) You must not have sex with your wife during the shabat, because you are not allowed to
    become unclean during the shabat, nor move each other, even if you don't become
    unclean.
    15) You must turn off all the meters to your house before Shabat, because if they are left on
    you will be conducting business during the shabat, because all that is running is not free,
    and you are also participating with those who are breaking the Shabat by working for
    you on that day to run your utilities. You must use your common sense here, your
    usage of their utilities pays their wages, the utilities are NOT free.
    16) You are not allowed to conduct any form of business during the shabat, whether that is
    for buying or for sell something, nor are you allowed to trade for something during the
    shabat (Amos 8:5, Nehemiah 10:29-32.)
    17) You must not use your phone, nor computer, nor any device during the shabat.
    18) You may pick up a book during the Shabat, if it does not deal with shopping or seeing
    what you could buy after the Shabat. Thus, you must not look at ads, nor catalogs, nor
    look in the classifieds either.
    19) You must not draw during the shabat.
    20) You must not erase something during the shabat.
    21) You must not write anything during the shabat, since that can wait until after the shabat.
    22) You must not go hunting.
    23) You must not go fishing.
    24) You must not ride a bicycle, nor skateboard, nor a scooter during the shabat.
    25) You must not go skiing.
    26) You are not allowed to fly on an airplane during the shabat.
    27) You must not kill during the shabat, unless a bad bug actually lands on you, then you
    can obviously kill the bug. However, if it is not a biting bug, you must not kill it.
    28) You may shew away bad animals from your livestock during the shabat.
    29) You must not ride your horse, nor animals during the shabat, for they too must not carry
    a burden during the shabat.
    30) You may go swimming during the shabat, but you must not deliberately splash around.
    31) You must not wash your clothes.
    32) You may lock and unlock your doors during the shabat.
    33) You must not do any household chores.
    34) You must not fix anything that might break.
    35) If an accidental fire breaks out somewhere on your property, you may obviously put it
    out if it is dealing with a structure, but you must do the least amount of work when doing
    so. If a fire is in a controled state, however, on empty land or in a trash zone you must
    not put it out, but keep a sharp on on it so that it does not spread and threaten
    something.
    36) You cannot open a window during the shabat.
    37) You must not exercise during the shabat. For the point behind the shabat is to also gain
    strength for the following week, and so rest.
    38) You must not go running during the shabat.
    39) You must not exert yourself during the shabat.
    40) A mother may pick up her child in order to nurse him or her during the shabat.
    41) A mother may clean up her young child, and possibly change their clothes during the
    shabat if needed. She may change their diaper as well, obviously. She is not allowed to
    pick up a toy or rattle during the shabat, because she can just make funny faces, rub the
    child's feet and other such things. A mother is not allowed to carry her baby around
    during the shabat. She can for a short while after nursing in order for the child to belch,
    but that is it.
    42) A father or mother may pick up a blanket during the shabat in order to bundle up their
    young one, if the young one can't do it themselves, and you can help them with any
    basic needs a small child can not do for themselves.
    43) You must not milk your animals during the shabat, you can do this before or after shabat.
    44) If your roof starts leaking during the shabat, you must not fix it during the shabat.
    45) You must not water your plants during the shabat.
    46) You must not sew any clothes during the shabat.
    47) When you are eating during the shabat and you eat everything off your plate, you must
    not pick up your plate in order to move it or get it out of the way.
    48) Even if you do not pick up your plate, you must not move your plate during the shabat.
    49) If you are eating and then accidently drop a utinsil on the floor and you think you defiled
    it, you must leave the utinsel. Therefore, you out to have extra utinsils laying on the
    table.
    50) You are not allowed to wash your dishes during the shabat, nor rinse them off during the
    shabat, nor put them in the sink.
    51) You are not allowed to comb your hair during the shabat.
    52) You are not allowed to brush your teeth during the shabat.
    53) You are not allowed to pick up two books at the same time during the shabat, you must
    only pick up one book up at a time if you want to read something.
    54) You are not allowed to pick up a Torah scroll during the shabat for it is too heavy and
    there is no need to, for there are Torah books now days that do not weigh very much.
    However, if you still want to read from a Torah scroll during the shabat, it must already be
    rolled open to the place you want to read at before the shabat begins.
    55) You are not allowed to ride on, nor drive a boat during the shabat. You are also not
    allowed to be on board a cruise ship during shabat, as the crew would be working for
    you to run the ship, plus there are other problems facing cruise ships when it come to
    the shabat.
    56) You may lock your doors during the shabat.
    57) If a theif breaks into your home, you may strike him with an object that you are normally
    not allowed to pick up during the shabat. This even includes the use of a gun.
    58) To go along with "you must not cook during the shabat," you also must not take things
    out of the oven during the shabat, nor out of the mircowave oven.
    59) You must not dish up food during the shabat, for you must prepare everything before
    shabat. You must not even dish up "seconds" during the shabat. Thus, if you think you
    will want more of something during the shabat, you must make yourself two or more
    servings before the shabat begins and put it on the table or another table.
    60) If you have two different breeds of the same kind of livestock, like goats or something
    else, yet you keep them apart as the Torah commands us, so that they do not cross-
    breed. If somehow one escapes or gets loose somehow and tries to mate with another
    animal he or she is not allowed to mate with, you may deal with this situation during the
    shabat. However, you must do the least amount of work possible. You must get the loose
    or escaped animal out of the area and either penned up or tied up until after shabat
    when you can deal with it better.
    61) Because you cannot do business during the shabat, you cannot pay bills during the
    shabat.
    62) Because you cannot deal with money during the shabat, you must not carry stamps for
    the mail during the shabat.
    63) You must not get the mail during the shabat, nor send it.
    64) You must not open an envelope during the shabat.
    65) You must not open a box during the shabat.
    66) If a "door-to-door" person comes to your door to either sell you something or preach
    something, you must not talk to him, if you do talk to him you must tell him or them that
    he or they are not allowed on your property during the shabat.
    67) You must not open a gate during the shabat.
    68) You must not move a chair or seat during the shabat.
    69) You must not organize things during the shabat.
    70) If you are reading a certain book during the shabat and you are done reading it for the
    time being, you must not carry it to a certain place, rather you must put it down wherever
    you are at. Whether that is a table, the floor, the couch, the bed or....
    71) When you pick up a cup or glass containing a liquid like milk, wine, water or... when you
    are done and it is all empty, you must not longer carry it. You must put it immediately
    down because the cup or glass no longer serves a purpose.
    72) You cannot feed your pets during the shabat, thus you must feed them before sunset
    and have sufficiant food laid out for them during the shabat. This is mostly talking about
    dogs, cats, birds, horses, cattle, donkeys, goats, sheep and the like.
    73) If, however, you have a young goat or something that you had before the shabat, that
    has lost its mother somehow and so cannot nurse naturally, if you have other mothers
    that are nursing, see if you can help one of those mothers adopted the kid. If, however,
    there are not any extra nursing mothers, you may help the kid. The kid cannot be to old
    to allow this however. For if the kid can eat on its own, you cannot help it nurse because
    it is not a "must," for kid can eat during the shabat. After the shabat you can give the kid
    some milk or help it nurse.
    74) You must not collect eggs during the shabat.
    75) If you want to wash your hands during the shabat and you do not have access to running
    or flowing water, as from a river, stream, creek, spring or artisian well, then fill up a bowl,
    or a sink, or a tub, or several bowls of water and while your hands are under the water,
    rub them together. To dry them, if you care to, you must mave a towel laid out before
    shabat and then you must only pat the towel, you are not allowed to pick it up.
    76) You must not talk about things that you planned to do in the near future.
    and...
    ===================================================================
    You must judge each situation that arises during shabat with the biblical commandments, and if a situation could wait until after Shabat, then it is not allowed to be done during the shabat.
    ....there are far over 300 minor decrees regarding the shabat, this is because the Torah is not going to give you every scenario that life can throw at you in written form.
    Thus, this list can go on and on and on...
    All these minor commandments fit into the basic gist of the overall teaching of what is and what is not allowed to be done during the shabat.
    Furthermore, if one is not sure about a certain activity or deed, it is always better to take the safe road and not do it, rather than take the liberal road. The liberal road would be thinking: "Because it is not written in the bible or in the Torah, that means I am allowed to do those things during the shabat." That thinking is very foolish, and sinful
    [FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][/FONT]
     
  9. EJ M

    EJ M Member Supporter

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    This paper is about how to keep the Shabat correctly according to the biblical decrees, and about giving some basic guidelines regarding activities that are, or are not allowed to be done during the Shabat / Sabbath.
    The basic rule of thumb surrounding the Shabat is summed up this way...
    "Anything outside of blunt necessity one is NOT allowed to do during the shabat.
    1) And he (Moses) said unto them:
    'This is that which the LORD hath spoken: To-morrow is
    a solemn rest, a holy sabbath unto the LORD. Bake that which ye will bake, and seethe
    that which ye will seethe; and all that remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the
    morning,' Exodus 16:23.
    Therefore, you must not cook during the shabat, you must do all of your preparations
    before sunset. With that being said, you must figure out how much food your are going
    to need in order to last you for an entire 24 plus hour period.
    2) "See that the LORD hath given you the sabbath; therefore He giveth you on the sixth day
    the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on
    the seventh day," Exodus 16:29...
    Commandment: You must not go out to collect things during the shabat.
    3) "Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying: Verily ye shall keep My sabbaths, for
    it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that ye may know that I am
    the LORD who sanctifies you. Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore, for it is holy unto you;
    every one that profaneth it shall surely be put to death; for whosoever doeth any work
    therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Six days shall work be done; but
    on the seventh day is a sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD; whosoever doeth any
    work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Wherefore the children of Israel
    shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a
    perpetual covenant," Exodus 31:13-16.
    4) "Six days shall work be done; but on the seventh day is a sabbath of solemn rest, a holy
    convocation; ye shall do no manner of work; it is a sabbath unto the LORD in all your
    dwellings," Lev 23:3.
    Commandment: No matter where you live, this regulation shall apply. No work, no job,
    nor chores, nor volunteer labor is allowed to be done during the shabat.
    5) For the priests only:
    "And thou shalt take fine flour, and bake twelve cakes thereof: two tenth parts of an ephah
    shall be in one cake. And thou shalt set them in two rows, six in a row, upon the pure table
    before the LORD. And thou shalt put pure frankincense with each row, that it may be to
    the bread for a memorial-part, even an offering made by fire unto the LORD. Every
    sabbath day he shall set it in order before the LORD continually; it is from the children of
    Israel, an everlasting covenant. And it shall be for Aaron and his sons; and they shall eat it
    in a holy place; for it is most holy unto him of the offerings of the LORD made by fire, a
    perpetual due," Lev 24:5-9.
    6) "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks
    upon the sabbath day. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses
    and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. And they put him in ward, because it had not
    been declared what should be done to him. And the LORD said unto Moses: 'The man
    shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the
    camp.' And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with
    stones, and he died, as the LORD commanded Moses," Num 15.
    Commandment: You must not do things on the shabat that could be done before shabat
    or wait until it passes. Obviously, the Torah is not concerned with "why"
    the man was collecting sticks, whether for firewood, fixing his tent, for
    carving or.... You simply must not collect things during the shabat.
    7) "Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day," Exodus 35:3.
    Commandment: a) You cannot, therefore, light an oil lamp in order to see during the
    shabat, you must do this before the shabat begins.
    b) If you start a fire in your fireplace in order to stay warm, you must
    do this before the shabat, and you also cannot add wood to the fire.
    c) In modern times, you cannot turn on a gas furnace during the shabat,
    but you can start it before the shabat, as long the gas is not being
    received from a utility company and there is a meter associated with
    it. You are not allowed to buy anything from a utility company because
    this would be conducting business during the shabat, for you
    must always pay for your usage. If, however, you have your own or
    are renting a propane tank, you may use this, as long as you light
    everything before sunset.
    d) By this biblical commandment, we see that you cannot start any type
    of engine during the shabat, because those things ignite sparks and
    burn gas.
    However, regarding a generator, you may start it before the shabat
    if you want to use it for house lights or for heat, as long as you also
    turn on those lights and heat sources and set them where you want them before shabat as well.
     
  10. EJ M

    EJ M Member Supporter

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    Above is how Jews keep the Sabbath, (edited because of length)
    Please give the SDA position on this commandment.
     
  11. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

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    That is mostly Rabbinic gezerot and takanot and goes against Deuteronomy 4:2
     
  12. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    There is no dispute that Israel was supposed to not take God's name in vain... Honor their parents ... and also to remember the Creator's Sabbath memorial of creating all life on Earth in 7 days.

    But God never says "the sign that you are a Jew is that you keep Sabbath" rather as Paul points out - they had circumcision for that.

    More specifically in Isaiah 56:5-8 God singles out gentiles (not just Jews) for Sabbath keeping.
    And in Isaiah 66:23 He dictates that it is for "all mankind" to come and worship.
    And in Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath is made for mankind"

    No wonder we have gentiles in worship service on Sabbath after Sabbath in Acts 13 hearing Gospel preaching and in Acts 18 "every Sabbath"
     
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    I meant to include this in answer to that

     
  14. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Was there some text that you meant to post in that statement -- "the Above is how.."??
     
  15. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    And of course now that we are not gathering sticks and starting fires by hand -- but rather "push button...warm food" the ideal is that we cook the food on the "preparation day" (Friday) and then without manually rubbing sticks to start fires or going out to collect wood --- pushing a button to warm food up thus not diverting any time at all away from the focus on the Sabbath.

    Sabbath keeping Christians of all denominations that do that - get this point instantly... but often those who ignore the 4th commandment entirely say they are confused on this tiny detail , and so refusing even to worship on the Sabbath.

    Baptist Confession of Faith --

    19. The Law of God


    1. God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.


    2. The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the ten commandments, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.


    3. Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased to give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.


    4. To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.


    5. The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.

     
  16. Lost4words

    Lost4words Jesus I Trust In You Supporter

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    True, only SDA believe what you do.
     
  17. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Mishnah is interesting collection of Jewish oral traditions.

    I was talking about the Bible.
     
  18. Lost4words

    Lost4words Jesus I Trust In You Supporter

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    God is not confined to just the Bible, just as Jesus taught. He did things on the Sabbath that were 'against' Biblical writing!
     
  19. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    1. True - Jews do not keep Sunday.
    2. True - that many Christians think that Christ's resurrection should be remembered every 7 days on week-day 1 ... even though there is no example of such a thing in all of the Bible.
    3. True - that those same Christians think that the 7 day creation event should be deleted by remembering a one day event from 2000 years ago "every 7 days".
    4. There is not one text in the NT after the cross where the term "Sabbath" means "week day 1" - and there is not one place where the NT says "Christ was resurrected on the 7th day" or the "new 7th day" or "the new Sabbath".
    5. Both Christians and Jews were meeting "every Sabbath" in Acts 18:4 to hear "more gospel preaching".
    6. There is not one text in NT or OT that says "week day 1 is the Lord's day" -- in fact the Lord's day is the Sabbath according to Mark 2:28 "Son of man is LORD of the Sabbath"


    The Bible says that Christians also "keep the Commandments of God and their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12 and some of them know enough to keep Sabbath as one of God's commandments for the Bible says "what matters is keeping the commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19.

    Many Christians "Love God" and have read the Bible enough to know "this IS the Love of God that we keep His commandments" 1 John 5:3-4

    ===============
    Baptist Confession of Faith -- section 19

    19. The Law of God


    1. God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.


    2. The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the ten commandments, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.


    3. Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased to give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.


    4. To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.


    5. The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.

      ============== which is almost identical to the "Westminster Confession of Faith" Section 19

    ??

    Ahh you mean the 5th largest Christian denomination in the world? Yes - we do believe this -- but the key details about the TEN Commandments as included in the moral law of God written on the heart under the New Covenant - is NOT unique to SDAs... as the post demonstrates.
     
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    True but we do enjoy "sola scriptura" testing of all doctrine and tradition against the Bible.

    As they did in Acts 17:11 "studies the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul -- were SO"
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
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