Iron Clad example proving OSAS from John 10:28

FreeGrace2

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There is no indication to whom this is posted, but I'll take a shot anyway.
Since you believe you are saved, what exactly did Christ Jesus do to save you from your sin?
He died for all my sins. And rose again (Rom 4:25). And gives the gift of eternal life to those who believe in Him (John 5:24).

Since you believe one can lose it
No, I don't believe that.

Christ shed His blood for every man Hebrews 2:9, which includes me.
Agreed.

So why isn't every man saved?
The single condition for getting saved is to believe in Jesus Christ and receive eternal life.

That was exactly Paul's answer to the jailer who asked him what he MUST DO to be saved. Acts 6:30,31 backs up what I say.

For every man will not ever come to believe in Christ or those that do come to believe in Christ will not faithfully maintain a lifelong hearing and following of Christ. No verse promises salvation to those that become unfaithful in their hearing and following of Christ.
No verse is REQUIRED to say that in your words. The Word of God clearly means that from ALL the verses that teach eternal security

Eternal life is a gift of God (Rom 6:23). The gifts of God are irrevocable (Rom 11:29). Are you aware that the word "gift" or "gifts" does NOT occur between those 2 words??

And yet some will try as hard as they can to divorce those 2 verse from each other, when they are TOTALLY RELATED by the mention of "God's gifts" in both verses.

It is irrational to try to separate these verses from each other when BOTH VERSES are about God's gifts.
 
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EmSw

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I have already refuted your erroneous ideas about what Jesus said. And shown what He actually said about receiving eternal life. It's about faith in Him, not obeying Laws.

Your refutation means nothing! You deny what Jesus says. You don't believe Him!

Reasonable scholars all agree that Jesus never even engaged in evangelism, but rather, what is called pre-evangelism.

Jesus is the only 'reasonable' scholar to follow. Another made-up word to justify your position.

The man thought he was keeping the law, but Jesus knew he wasn't and brought the "chink" in his armor; his wealth. That was more important to him than everything else.

Jesus never said the ruler didn't keep the law; another lie from unbelief.

I just explained what that meant, and all you've done is disagree without any kind of evidence to the contrary.

If your understanding were true, then ALL the verses about faith in Christ for eternal life are untrue. Nonsense.

I don't need you to explain what it means. You explanations are twinged from free-grace colored glasses. I don't need evidence from unbelief.

Actually, it takes living faith in Christ to believe everything He said, so faith isn't missing on my part. Your dead faith will lead you down the wrong path, to where you don't believe what He says.

Nope. Righteousness is credited on the basis of faith. It's imputed.

NOPE? Righteousness is certainly according to man practicing righteousness. Here again, your faith keeps you from believing.

1 John 3:7
Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

I will not let you deceive me FG2. You may deceive others and yourself, but you will not deceive me.

According to Romans 4:
3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
11 And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them.
13 It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith.
21 being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised.
22 This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.”
23 The words “it was credited to him” were written not for him alone,
24 but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.

It appears that you are totally unfamiliar with Scripture and what it teaches.

Really? Have you not read and understood James 2?

22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.
24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.


Do you believe a man is justified by works, and not by faith only? Or, are you in unbelief?

This is what the Bible teaches about the Law:
Rom 3:20
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

This single verse refutes your theories. Plus all of Romans 4.

That's not what Jesus taught. Perhaps you can enlighten us with Jesus' words which agree with Paul. YOU CAN'T! Why don't you admit it, your faith isn't in Jesus; it is in Paul!
 
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FreeGrace2

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Your refutation means nothing! You deny what Jesus says. You don't believe Him!
Actually, I've proven the opposite.

Jesus is the only 'reasonable' scholar to follow. Another made-up word to justify your position.
My position is justified by what Jesus says.

I don't need you to explain what it means. You explanations are twinged from free-grace colored glasses.
Thanks for admitting your extreme bias.

I don't need evidence from unbelief.
Sure. Because there is no evidence from unbelief.

Actually, it takes living faith in Christ to believe everything He said, so faith isn't missing on my part. Your dead faith will lead you down the wrong path, to where you don't believe what He says.
Who gave you the authority to make such a judgment about my faith? Don't you believe what the Bible says about judging others?
Matt 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

NOPE? Righteousness is certainly according to man practicing righteousness.
I guess you either didn't read all the verses I shared, or you've just rejected them all.

Here again, your faith keeps you from believing.
Do you even understand your contradiction here?

I will not let you deceive me FG2. You may deceive others and yourself, but you will not deceive me.
How sad that you have taken the very words of Jesus and see them as an attempt to deceive anyone.

Really? Have you not read and understood James 2?

22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.
24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.


Do you believe a man is justified by works, and not by faith only? Or, are you in unbelief?
It is quite clear just how much teaching is needed to get you up to speed.

Who said v.24 is about God's justification anyway? That's the COMMON ERROR among those who think so. And totally screw up the epistle.

Those who pay attention to James 2:15,16 know that the issue in ch 2 is our faith must be demonstrated to other human beings in order to be justified in their eyes.

But I expect you'll reject that, even though you'll have no evidence to justify your own view.

"justified by works" The issue here is “in whose eyes are we justified?”

Rom 12:17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody.

Rom 14:18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.

2 Cor 8:21 For we are taking pains to do what is right, not only in the eyes of the Lord but also in the eyes of men.

1 Thess 4:12 so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody.

1 Peter 2:12 Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.

Luke 16:15 He said to them, "You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of men, but God knows your hearts. What is highly valued among men is detestable in God's sight.

These verses clearly indicate that our lives are to be lived in such a way that others can see our faith, which justifies our claim to faith in their eyes.

That's not what Jesus taught. Perhaps you can enlighten us with Jesus' words which agree with Paul. YOU CAN'T! Why don't you admit it, your faith isn't in Jesus; it is in Paul!
Easy as pie!!

Paul's answer to the jailer who asked him what he MUST DO to be saved was "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved". Acts 16:30-31.

This is what the Bible teaches about the Law:
Rom 3:20
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

This single verse refutes your theories. Plus all of Romans 4.
Jesus said that salvation is by faith:
John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:40, 47, 10:9, 11:25-26

I'm still puzzled why anyone who claims to be a Christian would reject Paul's words, since Scripture is God breathed and is profitable for doctrine, correction, reproof, and instruction in righteousness.

Have you cut all of Paul's epistles out of your Bible yet?

Scholars agree that Paul was the greatest theologian of all time.

But regardless of your opinion, he wrote most of the NT. So I guess you're stuck with the 4 gospels, the epistle of James, and John's 3 epistles and Revelation.

And we can all see how that's working out for you.
 
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EmSw

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Who said v.24 is about God's justification anyway? That's the COMMON ERROR among those who think so. And totally screw up the epistle.

Those who pay attention to James 2:15,16 know that the issue in ch 2 is our faith must be demonstrated to other human beings in order to be justified in their eyes.

But I expect you'll reject that, even though you'll have no evidence to justify your own view.

"justified by works" The issue here is “in whose eyes are we justified?”

Rom 12:17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody.

Rom 14:18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.

2 Cor 8:21 For we are taking pains to do what is right, not only in the eyes of the Lord but also in the eyes of men.

1 Thess 4:12 so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody.

1 Peter 2:12 Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.

Luke 16:15 He said to them, "You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of men, but God knows your hearts. What is highly valued among men is detestable in God's sight.

All your verses say nothing about being justified in the sight of man, except your last verse spoken by Jesus. Did you even read what it says? Here's the context -

Luke 16
14 Now the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, also heard all these things, and they derided Him.
15 And He said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God.


Since you desire to be justified before men, you must find it highly esteemed. God finds it an abomination.

Just like the Pharisees, who derided Jesus, you are one who justifies yourself before men. Not only do you not know Him (by not keeping His commandments), you find it highly esteemed to be justified before men. However, God knows your heart, and finds what you desire an abomination.
 
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FreeGrace2

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All your verses say nothing about being justified in the sight of man, except your last verse spoken by Jesus.
You're free to twist any verse you want to say anything you want. But the point is clear, esp 2 Cor 8:21 about our behavior "in the eyes of men as well as in the eyes of our Lord". Or Rom 12:17 - "be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody". Or Rom 14:18 - "because everyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and APPROVED by men."

Did you even read what it says?
I'd suggest a much more careful reading of the verses I shared.

Here's the context -

Luke 16
14 Now the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, also heard all these things, and they derided Him.
15 And He said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God.


Since you desire to be justified before men, you must find it highly esteemed. God finds it an abomination.
How is Luke 16 any so-called "context" for James 2? Did James quote from Luke 16? No, he did not. His point was about being justified by our works in v.24. But this was AFTER his point about the fact that only a faith with deeds can be seen by men in v.18.

Just like the Pharisees, who derided Jesus, you are one who justifies yourself before men.
Not for salvation I don't.

Can you do what is challenged in James 2:18 without works? How would you do it? No one can. Which is James' point.
 
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bling

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The point of John 10:28 is that the ONLY CONDITION for NEVER PERISHING is to receive eternal life.

And Jesus taught us WHEN one does receive (or HAVE) eternal life: when they believe on Christ, per John 5:24.


But Jesus never said this. He didn't say the condition for never perishing was to follow Him.

The ONLY CONDITION for NEVER PERISHING is to receive eternal life.

Just because in one verse of scripture the exceptions are not addressed does not mean there are no exceptions.

You are using the “proof text” of silence on the subject, but scripture is not silent on the subject.

Look at this obvious example:

Jesus repeatedly says (without any exception given): Mark 10:11 He answered, “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. And Luke 16:18 “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

So if you take just one verse or even multiple verses you might conclude there is no exception and man divorcing his wife commits adultery since no exception is given, but in another letter and at a different time Matthew tells us: Matt. 19: 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

The Holy Spirit has provided us with the “exceptions” to those having been giving the gift of eternal life winding up in hell, by as the Holy Spirit tells us through Paul in Gal. 6: 9 those that “give up” will not receive in the end the harvest of eternal life.


No one needs to invent any interpretation of John 10:28. The words are plain and direct. Those who Jesus gives eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH..
The interpretation of any verse has to take into consideration all other verses given us by the Holy Spirit. Other verses can present exceptions (like they did with the exception for divorce).
The ONLY CONDITION for never perishing is to receive eternal life.

That is your interpretation using only one scriptural verse for finding the meaning.

Does this suggest or imply that Jesus really meant that those He gives eternal life to MIGHT PERISH??

Just as Jesus said “anyone who divorces his wife is an adulterous” did not take into consideration exceptions.


Except there are absolutely no verses that teach that the believer can give away His salvation. If there were, you'd have a point.

Actually there are lots of warnings given to Christians and Gal. 6: 7-9 spells it out specifically.

Where does Scripture teach that we can "give up" our eternal life? That would imply that we are in charge of God's gift.

i need Scripture for such a teaching. Uh, clear Scripture.

If it is truly a gift given to us, then yes we do own it and it is ours to do as we please with it. There is scriptures given on things earned, stolen, given and what we are stewards of. If we are just “stewards” of our eternal life then it is not a gift given to us.

So then, Jesus really didn't mean what He said. Is that correct? Because what He said was quite clear.


What's to "interpret"? Jesus said He gives eternal life (to His sheep, from context) and THEY WILL NEVER PERISH.

Did Jesus give any conditions on those He gives eternal life to? No, I don't see any. There are none.

His point: those who receive eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH.

Jesus meant fully what he said when He said: “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery…”, but did not address the exception.
 
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EmSw

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You're free to twist any verse you want to say anything you want. But the point is clear, esp 2 Cor 8:21 about our behavior "in the eyes of men as well as in the eyes of our Lord". Or Rom 12:17 - "be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody". Or Rom 14:18 - "because everyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and APPROVED by men."

Your 'puppy' verse in 2 Corinthians has nothing to do with being justified in the eyes of men, neither does Romans 12. Don't you get tired of straining?

I'd suggest a much more careful reading of the verses I shared.

I did and absolutely nothing about being justified in the eyes of men.

Why do you want to be justified by man? What profit is that to you? Is justified by man your way to Heaven? No where will you find to justify yourself in the eyes of man, except in your gospel.

How is Luke 16 any so-called "context" for James 2? Did James quote from Luke 16? No, he did not. His point was about being justified by our works in v.24. But this was AFTER his point about the fact that only a faith with deeds can be seen by men in v.18.

You are the one to say James says to justify ourselves before men. I didn't! James says absolutely nothing about justifying ourselves before men.

I'm showing you what Jesus said about justifying ourselves before men, which contradicts your belief beyond repair. Again, why are you trying to justify yourself before man? What are you trying to accomplish? Why are you working to please man?

What you are saying is that you must perform good works in the eyes of man to justify yourself, and make your faith alive.

Not for salvation I don't.

Can you do what is challenged in James 2:18 without works? How would you do it? No one can. Which is James' point.

So, you are now a 'works' believer. Why are works before man more important than before God? Will man's justification make your faith alive and save you?

At least you admit justification is by works.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Just because in one verse of scripture the exceptions are not addressed does not mean there are no exceptions.
That's certainly a novel way to dodge sticky issues. If there were conditions beyond receiving God's gift of eternal life, then what Jesus said iin John 10:28 is simply not true, and extremely misleading.

You are using the “proof text” of silence on the subject, but scripture is not silent on the subject.
No, I am taking Jesus AT HIS WORD.

Look at this obvious example:

Jesus repeatedly says (without any exception given): Mark 10:11 He answered, “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. And Luke 16:18 “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
I don't see loss of eternal life here.

So if you take just one verse or even multiple verses you might conclude there is no exception and man divorcing his wife commits adultery since no exception is given, but in another letter and at a different time Matthew tells us: Matt. 19: 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
OK, so where are all the clear and plain verses that one can lose eternal life? All I've been given so far are verses that REQUIRE much assumption to make such a conclusion.

The Holy Spirit has provided us with the “exceptions” to those having been giving the gift of eternal life winding up in hell, by as the Holy Spirit tells us through Paul in Gal. 6: 9 those that “give up” will not receive in the end the harvest of eternal life.
The "harvest" is clearly about eternal rewards in eternity.

One has to work for a harvest. We know that isn't true for eternal life because it's solely based on faith in Christ.

The interpretation of any verse has to take into consideration all other verses given us by the Holy Spirit. Other verses can present exceptions (like they did with the exception for divorce).
I can and have provided numerous passages that teach eternal security. And I've see NO VERSES that state that either salvation or eternal life can be lost.

That is your interpretation using only one scriptural verse for finding the meaning.
Hardly. Rom 6:23 says that eternal life is a gift of God.
Rom 11:29 says that God's gifts are irrevocable.

Therefore, eternal life, an irrevocable gift of God, is, well, irrevocable.

Actually there are lots of warnings given to Christians and Gal. 6: 7-9 spells it out specifically.
Absolutely there are warnings to believers throughout the NT.

Yet, NONE of them specify that it is salvation or eternal life that is at risk. That must be "read into" the passage. What is at risk is God's discipline during one's lifetime, and/or loss of eternal rewards in eternity.

If it is truly a gift given to us, then yes we do own it and it is ours to do as we please with it.
Then please provide at least one verse that very plainly teaches such a thing; that we can "do as we please with it".

Please stop treating eternal life as some kind of object that one can slip into their pocket, and take out and throw away. That is just ridiculous.

Jesus meant fully what he said when He said: “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery…”, but did not address the exception.
But He did in another passage. Where did Jesus specifically state that one can throw away salvation or that He may take away one's salvation?
 
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EmSw

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FG2, listen and understand this parable of Jesus.

Matthew 21
28 “But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first and said, ‘Son, go, work today in my vineyard.’
29 He answered and said, ‘I will not,’ but afterward he regretted it and went.
30 Then he came to the second and said likewise. And he answered and said, ‘I go, sir,’ but he did not go.
31 Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said to Him, “The first.”


FG2, I will ask you the same thing Jesus asked His disciples, 'which one of the two DID the will of his father?' How do you answer? How was the will of the father accomplished?

The father asked his two sons to go to work. One went to work, the other didn't. What was the will of the father? Was it to give lip service and not obey, or the one who obeyed and actually went to work? Jesus asked which of the two DID the will of the father. The will of the father is to actually DO something, not just believe something.

And before you start your accusations, yes, believing is an intrical part of the Father's will, but it is believing (faith) and doing (works), just as James said.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Your 'puppy' verse in 2 Corinthians has nothing to do with being justified in the eyes of men, neither does Romans 12. Don't you get tired of straining?
What I do get tired of are empty claims and baseless opinions.

The verses ARE about how we as believers appear in the eyes of others, and the verses plainly SAY SO.

I did and absolutely nothing about being justified in the eyes of men.
Apparently one is in need of glasses, or an adjustment of same.

Why do you want to be justified by man? What profit is that to you? Is justified by man your way to Heaven? No where will you find to justify yourself in the eyes of man, except in your gospel.
Of course I don't want justification from man to get into heaven. What a ridiculous notion. That's not what James was saying at all. The entire chapter 2 is about the problem of hypocrisy. All of his examples in that chapter reveal hypocrisy. Eep 2:15,16. Believers who act like that are total hypocrites and will be seen as such by those in need who don't get their needs met by such hypocrites.

While James never used the specific word "hypocrite" or "hypocrisy". But surely he was acutely aware of how many times his half brother Jesus used that word against the Pharisees.

And the examples given by James are all about hypocrisy.

So, a believer who behaves like the idiot in 2:15-16 will be seen as a hypocrite in the eyes of those in need.

James' point is summarized in v.18 - But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds. Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds."

iow, without deeds, it is totally impossible to "show me your faith without deeds", just as James noted.

iow, those with faith but without deeds are hypocrites. They are not living the way they are supposed to live.

You are the one to say James says to justify ourselves before men. I didn't! James says absolutely nothing about justifying ourselves before men.
I can't help what others cannot see.

At least you admit justification is by works.
Once again your opinion is wrong.

God's justificaton is based solely on faith. Found all over Romans 3 and 4.

But to avoid being a hypocrite, one must have deeds which shows their faith.
 
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FreeGrace2

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FG2, listen and understand this parable of Jesus.

Matthew 21
28 “But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first and said, ‘Son, go, work today in my vineyard.’
29 He answered and said, ‘I will not,’ but afterward he regretted it and went.
30 Then he came to the second and said likewise. And he answered and said, ‘I go, sir,’ but he did not go.
31 Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said to Him, “The first.”


FG2, I will ask you the same thing Jesus asked His disciples, 'which one of the two DID the will of his father?' How do you answer? How was the will of the father accomplished?

The father asked his two sons to go to work. One went to work, the other didn't. What was the will of the father? Was it to give lip service and not obey, or the one who obeyed and actually went to work? Jesus asked which of the two DID the will of the father. The will of the father is to actually DO something, not just believe something.
This is interesting. Even Jesus' own disciples didn't understand His parables. But it seems they are crystal clear to you, having spent zero face to face time with Him.

Doctrine isn't taught in parables. Then no one would understand or know any doctrine.

Doctrine is taught by clear and plain words. Paul is considered by scholars to be the greatest theologian of all time, having actually spent face to face time with the Lord, according to Gal 1:11-12
11 I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

He also said this:
Eph 3:8-9
Although I am less than the least of all God's people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.

Then, in 2 Cor 1:13 - For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand.

Clear enough?
 
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EmSw

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What I do get tired of are empty claims and baseless opinions.

The verses ARE about how we as believers appear in the eyes of others, and the verses plainly SAY SO.

Uh oh, now you are changing your story. You said to be 'justified' before men, now you are saying 'appear'. Those aren't the same thing, my friend. Why do you not say 'justified' now?

Apparently one is in need of glasses, or an adjustment of same.

You are squirming now. It's not glasses I need, but for you to show me 'justification' in any of the verses you provided.

Of course I don't want justification from man to get into heaven. What a ridiculous notion. That's not what James was saying at all. The entire chapter 2 is about the problem of hypocrisy. All of his examples in that chapter reveal hypocrisy. Eep 2:15,16. Believers who act like that are total hypocrites and will be seen as such by those in need who don't get their needs met by such hypocrites.

What is it, do you want to be justified in man's eyes, or do you not? This is what gives life to your faith according to you.

Hypocrisy, huh? Are those who do not believe in works hypocrites? Does it take works to not be a hypocrite? Do hypocrites enter heaven? Do hypocrites believe Jesus? Since you don't believe in works for salvation, does that make you a hypocrite? Are hypocrites liars?

The point in James is that faith without works is dead, not about hypocrisy.

While James never used the specific word "hypocrite" or "hypocrisy". But surely he was acutely aware of how many times his half brother Jesus used that word against the Pharisees.

So, the believers to whom James was writing were Pharisees. Your belief is getting weirder the more you speak.

And the examples given by James are all about hypocrisy.

So, a believer who behaves like the idiot in 2:15-16 will be seen as a hypocrite in the eyes of those in need.

Since you don't believe works are necessary, does this make you a hypocrite to those in need? Yes, they are hypocrites and their faith is dead, two strikes against these believers.

James' point is summarized in v.18 - But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds. Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds."

Let's read the rest of James after verse 18.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.
24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


FG2, can you show us your faith without works? I sure hope you aren't a foolish man as James says. Do you believe faith without works is dead?

Let's see, Abraham was justified by works and not faith only, Rahab the harlot was justified by works and not faith only. I definitely see faith and works together. Do you?

Do you see the example James gives us in verse 26? It doesn't say the body without the spirit is a hypocrite! It doesn't say faith without works is hypocrisy! IT SAYS FAITH IS DEAD!!! Do you not know what 'DEAD' is?
There is definitely no eternal life in that which is dead!

iow, without deeds, it is totally impossible to "show me your faith without deeds", just as James noted.

That's because that faith is dead, buried, lifeless, and worthless.

iow, those with faith but without deeds are hypocrites. They are not living the way they are supposed to live.

Are you a hypocrite FG2? Or, do you believe it is faith with works that is alive?

Since when does your belief require a man to live like they are supposed to? Is a man saved if he doesn't live like he is supposed to? Or, is James just a fairy tale to free-gracers?

Once again your opinion is wrong.

Did you not say it was works which justify you before men?

God's justificaton is based solely on faith. Found all over Romans 3 and 4.

Did you not just read James 2:24, 'You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.'

Are you calling James a liar?

But to avoid being a hypocrite, one must have deeds which shows their faith.

Do hypocrites go to heaven? Are hypocrites saved?
 
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FreeGrace2

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Uh oh, now you are changing your story. You said to be 'justified' before men, now you are saying 'appear'. Those aren't the same thing, my friend. Why do you not say 'justified' now?
What continues to be sad are those who seem unable to discern between what it means to be justified in the eyes of God, which is through faith, and to be justified in the eyes of man, which is through deeds.

But it isn't a difficult concept.

FG2, can you show us your faith without works?
No one can. That was James' point.

I sure hope you aren't a foolish man as James says. Do you believe faith without works is dead?
Of course. The Bible plainly says so. And I always believe what the Bible plainly says, unlike some I know.

Did you not just read James 2:24, 'You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.'

Are you calling James a liar?
Only someone who doesn't comprehend much would come to that crazy conclusion.

Do hypocrites go to heaven? Are hypocrites saved?
Only the believers.
 
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EmSw

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This is interesting. Even Jesus' own disciples didn't understand His parables. But it seems they are crystal clear to you, having spent zero face to face time with Him.

Doctrine isn't taught in parables. Then no one would understand or know any doctrine.

Doctrine is taught by clear and plain words. Paul is considered by scholars to be the greatest theologian of all time, having actually spent face to face time with the Lord, according to Gal 1:11-12
11 I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

He also said this:
Eph 3:8-9
Although I am less than the least of all God's people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.

Then, in 2 Cor 1:13 - For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand.

Clear enough?

So you admit you know nothing about Jesus' parables. Maybe you should just reject all of Jesus' words and just follow Paul.

Mark 8
17 But Jesus, being aware of it, said to them, “Why do you reason because you have no bread? Do you not yet perceive nor understand? Is your heart still hardened?
18 Having eyes, do you not see? And having ears, do you not hear? And do you not remember?


Is your heart hardened FG2, that you do not perceive nor understand the parables?
 
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EmSw

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What continues to be sad are those who seem unable to discern between what it means to be justified in the eyes of God, which is through faith, and to be justified in the eyes of man, which is through deeds.

Here you go again, wanting to be justified in the eyes of men. Do you not know what abomination is in the eyes of God?

Only the believers.

Only the believing hypocrites, huh? There is no such thing. Hypocrites are pretenders, actors, and dissemblers. Hypocrites disguise or conceal their real nature, motives, or feelings behind a false appearance.

A believing hypocrite is an oxymoron.
 
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FreeGrace2

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So you admit you know nothing about Jesus' parables.
No, but it seems you're quite adept at twisting the words of others

Maybe you should just reject all of Jesus' words and just follow Paul.
No, it just reject your unbiblical opinions.
 
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EmSw

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I'll bet this opinion cannot be defended or supported from Scripture.

For your sake, you better hope it can't.

But I'm sorry to tell you, it is supported. The Pharisees thought they believed in God, but their actions proved their hypocrisy hid their true nature and motives. They hid behind false appearances.

Maybe you should look up 'hypocrite' in Strong's. It seems you don't actually know what it means.
 
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EmSw

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No, but it seems you're quite adept at twisting the words of others

No, it just reject your unbiblical opinions.

This is not twisted, nor is it my opinion -

Matthew 19:17
So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

You can fight it all you want, FG2, but these words of Jesus will judge every man, woman, and child. You can't escape this truth with your doctrine and interpretation.
 
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FreeGrace2

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I said this:
"I'll bet this opinion cannot be defended or supported from Scripture."
For your sake, you better hope it can't.
Hope nothing. For the sake of truth, I know it can't.

But I'm sorry to tell you, it is supported.
Nope. I've refuted your claims.

The Pharisees thought they believed in God, but their actions proved their hypocrisy hid their true nature and motives. They hid behind false appearances.
They actually did believe in God. But they rejected what the OT actually taught.

Moses and the Prophets regarding salvation through faith in Christ
Luke 24:27, 44 - 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself. 44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

Luke 16:29,30,31 - 29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ 30 “ ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ 31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ ”

John 1:45 - Philip found Nathanael and told him, “We have found the one Moses wrote about in the Law, and about whom the prophets also wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”

John 5 - 39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

45 “But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set. 46 If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. 47 But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?”

John 6:45 - It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

John 12:34 - The crowd spoke up, “We have heard from the Law that the Messiah will remain forever, so how can you say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up’? Who is this ‘Son of Man’?”

John 20:9- (They still did not understand from Scripture that Jesus had to rise from the dead.)

Acts 3:22,23,24 - 22 For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you. 23 Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from their people.’ 24 “Indeed, beginning with Samuel, all the prophets who have spoken have foretold these days.

Acts 9:22 - Yet Saul grew more and more powerful and baffled the Jews living in Damascus by proving that Jesus is the Messiah. [obviously from the OT]

Acts 10:43 - All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Acts 13:39 - Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses.

Acts 15:5,10 - 5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.” 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? [this shows that the Law of Moses didn’t save]

Acts 17:2,3,11 - 2 As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead. “This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Messiah,” he said. 11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

Acts 18:28 - For he vigorously refuted his Jewish opponents in public debate, proving from the Scriptures that Jesus was the Messiah.

Acts 24:14,24 - 14 However, I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets, 24 Several days later Felix came with his wife Drusilla, who was Jewish. He sent for Paul and listened to him as he spoke about faith in Christ Jesus.

Acts 26:6,7,22,23 - 6 And now it is because of my hope in what God has promised our ancestors that I am on trial today. 7 This is the promise our twelve tribes are hoping to see fulfilled as they earnestly serve God day and night. King Agrippa, it is because of this hope that these Jews are accusing me. 22 But God has helped me to this very day; so I stand here and testify to small and great alike. I am saying nothing beyond what the prophets and Moses said would happen— 23 that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”

Acts 28:23 - They arranged to meet Paul on a certain day, and came in even larger numbers to the place where he was staying. He witnessed to them from morning till evening, explaining about the kingdom of God, and from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets he tried to persuade them about Jesus.

Rom 1:2 - the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures

Rom 3:20-22 - 20 Therefore, no one will be declared righteous in His sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. 21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,

Rom 3:27,28 27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. 28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

Maybe you should look up 'hypocrite' in Strong's. It seems you don't actually know what it means.
NT:5273 an actor under an assumed character (stage-player), i.e. (figuratively) a dissembler ("hypocrite"):

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

My other lexicon has this: to act a part upon the stage, hence, to assume a counterfeit character.

The word is consistently translated "hypocrite" in the English, which means this:
Definition of hypocrite
1: a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
2: a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings
 
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