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Ireneaus on End Times

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Handmaid for Jesus, Jul 26, 2017.

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  1. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    I am going to have to assume by your lack of response to my question, that you are in, but just wont be responding to me

    Therefore, I will ask someone else if they believe the rebuilding of the earthly temple is a past or future end time prophecy?
     
  2. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

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    Here is the thread you are looking for Mikniks. :)
     
  3. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    Here is the thread I'm looking for?
    I feel rather the opposite

    I feel more that I am not wanted here
     
  4. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    The first poster'a sequence of coming events left out a very important piece of the sequence
     
  5. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    Yes. There must be a new Temple, God requires it. Isaiah 56:6-7
    The Jewish people alone will not build the Temple. Zechariah 6:15
    The citizens of the new nation of Beulah, every faithful Christian, will build it, to the glory of God.
    But as Zechariah 14:1-2 says: the leader of the One World govt, the Anti-Christ will conquer Beulah and he will desecrate the Temple. Irenaeus was right about that. Its all quite clear in the prophesies, anyway.
     
  6. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    Faithful Christians should have no part in building the temple

    And won't

    Tell me who has the right to build?

    According to GOD's WORD, and through the prophet Ezra, only those who could supply the credentials to support their claim to be of a priestly line

    and the only priestly people are those who know that another temple is not needed as these are those who are being built up on THE FOUNDATION of the TRUE HOUSE for GOD
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2017
  7. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    Contrary to the apparent beliefs of some, I DO have a life outside of Cristian Forums. And sometimes that life requires me to do other things than respond to the latest attacks on what I posted.

    I did not omit what Irenaeus said about the temple in Jerusalem, but explicitly quoted one of the places.

    But we need to remember that the subject here is what Irenaeus taught, not whether or not he was right. And Irenaeus said nothing about the temple being rebuilt in unbelief. In fact the only thing he said about the building of that end time temple was:

    “Moreover, he (the apostle) has also pointed out this which I have shown in many ways, that the temple in Jerusalem was made by the direction of the true God. For the apostle himself, speaking in his own person, distinctly called it the temple of God. Now I have shown in the third book, that no one is termed God by the apostles when speaking for themselves, except Him who truly is God, the Father of our Lord, by whose directions the temple which is at Jerusalem was constructed for those purposes which I have already mentioned; in which [temple] the enemy shall sit, endeavouring to show himself as Christ, as the Lord also declares: ‘But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, which has been spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him that readeth understand), then let those who are in Judea flee into the mountains; and he who is upon the house-top, let him not come down to take anything out of his house: for there shall then be great hardship, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall be.’” (Against Heresies, by Irenaeus, book V, chapter XXV, section 2)

    In addition to what I posted earlier about the desecration of that temple, Irenaeus also said:

    “The Lord also spoke as follows to those who did not believe in Him: ‘I have come in my Father’s name, and ye have not received Me: when another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive,’ calling Antichrist ‘the other,’ because he is alienated from the Lord. This is also the unjust judge, whom the Lord mentioned as one ‘who feared not God, neither regarded man,’ to whom the widow fled in her forgetfulness of God,—that is, the earthly Jerusalem,—to be avenged of her adversary. Which also he shall do in the time of his kingdom: he shall remove his kingdom into that [city], and shall sit in the temple of God, leading astray those who worship him, as if he were Christ.” (Against Heresies, by Irenaeus, book V, chapter XXV, section 4)

    “And then he points out the time that his tyranny shall last, during which the saints shall be put to flight, they who offer a pure sacrifice unto God: ‘And in the midst of the week,’ he says, ‘the sacrifice and the libation shall be taken away, and the abomination of desolation [shall be brought] into the temple: even unto the consummation of the time shall the desolation be complete.’Now three years and six months constitute the half-week.” (Against Heresies, by Irenaeus, book V, chapter XXV, section 4)

    So Irenaeus never even suggested the idea that the future temple would be built in rebellion and unbelief. Instead, he said it would actually be "the temple of God," and would be built "at His direction." That is, at God's direction.

    But he did very clearly and plainly discuss the desecration of this future temple by "the Antichrist."

    In this thread, I have clearly and fairly presented what Irenaeus taught, without offering any judgment on the accuracy of the reliability of his opinions. What I have posted is not based on tidbits I have gleaned from the writings of other people, but from my own detiled analysis of what this writer said. (I have also done such detailed alalises of numerous other ancient writers, devoting many years to this project.)

    Unless otherwise stated, all the passages I have quoted in this thread are from the translation as given in Volume 1 of “The Early Church Fathers: Ante-Nicene Fathers,” edited by Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, as found in its American edition edited by A. Cleveland Coxe, and as found online at Christian Classics Ethereal Library.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2017
  8. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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    The Barean's were more noble minded as they searched the scriptures to see if it were so. When you take a position established by Iranaeus it is then topical to present the scripture relevant to the topic which is a departure from Iranaeus in many regards as the topic of the Temple, abomination of desolation, Mark of the beast 42 months till the 2nd coming all stem off of this thread. This is like posting Romans one and having a gay marriage debate and not allowing the use of the other scriptures not found in Romans one to defend your interpretation of it. The criticism or support of Iranaeus is a gateway to many subjects. As for will the the Temple be made again I would say a heart yes. Hosea speaks of the latter days and Israel going many days without a sacrifice or king and that would mean that after many days they will have the sacrifice again and a king. They have not had a king since Babylon or a sacrifice since 70AD. The Temple Institute has prepared everything necessary to resume them. This is happening while the conflict of the temple mount is at an all time high. hosea 34 For the children of Israel shall abide many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred pillar, without ephod or teraphim. 5 Afterward the children of Israel shall return and seek the LORD their God and David their king. They shall fear the LORD and His goodness in the latter days.

    Iranaeus believed the return of the sacrifice would happen this is posted supporting this view. The throne of David is an earthly throne and Jesus will as promised sit on that throne.
     
  9. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    Who could possibly be unbelieving Israel's king?
    If it is THE LORD, than they wouldn't be looking for another king

    If they knew the LORD, they would neither build a temporal house or reinstate animal sacrifices
     
  10. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    Was Solomon, Davids son, the one GOD was pointing to who was supposed to build a house for GOD?
     
  11. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    As the discussion in this thread has veered significantly from the subject limitation requested by its originator, I have started a new thread for discussion of whether or not the doctrine of Irenaeus was scripturally correct. So for that discussion, please go here:

    Was Irenaeus right?
     
  12. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    LOL

    Okaay...

    I'm wondering how this new thread is any different from this thread?
     
  13. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    I am going to agree with you regarding the next temple that Christians should not be participants of it.

    But that does not mean that it won't be built - by the Jews. A temple has to be built because there are a multitude of end time bible prophecies that require it. Such as the transgression of desolation in Daniel 8. The abomination of desolation in Daniel 12 and Matthew 24. And in the middle of the week in Daniel 9. And 2thessalonians2:3-4, the revealing of the man of sin.
     
  14. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    Yes I know it will be built
    However there is a thread on this forum where the poster asked should Christians support the building of the temple and it surprised me that those who claim to be "Christians" said yes


    GOD will allow the building of the temple. There will be those who will be involved and the temple will be rebuilt

    It just shouldn't be Christians involved in the encouragement or support of it
     
  15. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    By the way, I appreciate your "anytime rapture" tag line
     
  16. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Well-Known Member

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    Not just you, we're all living in the rebellion that comes first, before that man of lawlessness is revealed.

    There you go, I rest my case. David wanted to build the Temple, but God said Solomon would do it. It's God that gives the go ahead for Temple building projects. If he didn't let David build one for Him, a man after His own heart, why would he want the people living in Israel right now to build Him one. And let me ask you this, if they went ahead and did build one right now without Authorization, would it meet the criteria to be called a "holy place"???

    "But God said to me, ‘You may not build a house for my name, for you are a man of war and have shed blood.’

    “And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them. According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it… And look that thou make them after their pattern, which was shewed thee in the mount.”
    This is a funny little thread. This thread has more action.

    He was right about what he was right about. He was right about the Gospel. He was right about fighting the Gnostics. He was right about the book of Matthew being the only book in the new testament having been originally written in Hebrew. But he wasn't right about the end times. He was way off. But he never claimed to be dogmatic. He said something about the prophetic scriptures being tricky. "But when the time has arrived, and the prediction has come to pass, then the prophecies have a clear and certain exposition"

    I can't figure out why anyone would think Irenaeus would be in the know. Polycarp would have known more, he was a disciple of John. But neither Polycarp OR Irenaeus could know what the AofD would be. Daniel was sealed until the time of the end.

    Remember knowledge would be increased???

    People would run to and Fro???

    Hello???
     
  17. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    No we're not in rebellion

    Those who are reconciled to GOD in CHRIST have one "work"

    To remain in HIM and not "go out" from HIM

    And hold to THE TESTIMONY of JESUS
     
  18. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    You can't be a divided house
    You can't serve CHRIST and men

    Those "Christians" who speak up about the temple will either be raptured or killed for their testimony

    The temple will be built, but any person claiming themselves to be a Christian yet supports their unbelieving ignorant Jewish brother on the building of the temple is not a Christian
     
  19. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    What did you think that knowledge would be of?

    Remember some of the wise will stumble so as to be made pure for the time of the end


    Hello?????
     
  20. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    If David was meant to build the temple, he would have
    And GOD does not live in houses built by men

    Tear down THIS TEME and I will build it up in three days


    Zerubabbel hand laid the foundation and his hand will complete it

    GOD's WORD is the testimony of JESUS for HIS WORD ever and always spoken in lower visible signs which we could understand pointed us to the higher invisible spiritual Truths and realities found in HIS SON, who as A SON is building the house for GOD and faithful in all HIS FATHER's possessions
     
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