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Featured Ireneaus on End Times

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Handmaid for Jesus, Jul 26, 2017.

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  1. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    We teach the first because the scriptures explicitly teach it. For no theory on the timing of the rapture places it after the Lord comes in power and glory to judge the world. This is because there is absolutely zero scriptural justification for even imagining that the rapture takes place after that time. But Isaiah 66 very plainly teaches that the restoration of Israel to its ancient homeland will take place after that event.

    And Dispensationalism has never taught, implied, or even imagined, that God ever had a "plan A" and a "Plan B." It is an essential part of Dispensationalism that all the dispensations are components of God's work on a single master plan that was already in place before the seven days of Genesis 1.
     
  2. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    There is no plan B outside of THE GOSPEL
     
  3. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    What will be preached after the church age but the same GOSPEL

    And the second group of workers/witnesses will be believing Jews

    Yes?

    (I am not mentioning or. even Considering the two witnesses here)
     
  4. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    How do you know that the rapture happen before the restoration begins?

    And when you say the restoration

    You are talking about the physical restoration of Israel since the unbelieving Jew will enter into this work during the time of the tribulation
    Specifically, the temple will be rebuilt and sacrifices will be reinstated

    And who do you think will be killed as hinderers of this work

    But the believing Christian

    You believe the restoration will happen after the rapture

    But that isn't what Daniel noted
    when he said it will be rebuilt during troublous times
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2017
  5. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    Biblewriter,

    7 years are determined
    If iranaeus notes the 3 1/2 year period as the "great tribulation" that is halfway through the 7 year tribulation which begins with the restoring of Israel

    The rapture would have to be mid-trib

    But up to that time, many believers will die
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2017
  6. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    If you go back and read what I posted, That is exactly what I said, that in modern terms, the position of Irenaeus would be called Mid trib. But, as he only saw the last half of the week as the "great tribulation," this was pre-trib in his system.

    And as a side note, the scriptures only call the last half of the week "great tribulation."
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2017
  7. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    And as I said, Dispensationalist do not teach that there is a plan B.
     
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  8. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    What you are saying is that like John called "come up here" in Revelation Iraneuas also "saw" the last half of the week from that viewpoint/perspective?
     
  9. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    Thank you
     
  10. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    I gave the reasons. Read what I posted.

    This is not what the scriptures teach. You will not find even one ene]=d time prophecy, anywhere in the entire Bible, that days anything about Judah, that is, "the Jews," returning to the land. The only prophecy that says anything at all about that was about the return from Babylon.

    The prophecies about the end time return all say "Israel," not "Judah." There two terms are not synonyms. Judah has two possible meanings. It either refers to the tribe of Judah, or it refers to the southern kingdom of Judah and Benjamin. Israel, likewise, had two meanings, it either meant the entire twelve tribes, or it meant the northern kingdom composed of the ten tribes.

    But in the entire Bible, Israel never means Judah, and Judah never means Israel.

    You are quoting from the KJV, which reads:
    " Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. Daniel 9:25

    This is a reference to the times in which the street and the wall were built in ancient times. This took 49 years, seven weeks, the straight of times. then, after an additional sixty -two weeks, Messiah would come. Just as He actually did come, 483 years (7 x 69) after the order went forth.

    But I am not the one who said the the return of Israel would take place after the Lord comes "with fire, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire." This is clearly taught in Isaiah 66.
     
  11. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    Ah forget it

    I said nothing about distinguishing a people physically coming into physical Jerusalem

    I said physical Jerusalem will be restored and to these unbelieving Jews that requires a temple
     
  12. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    You sure can I understand deny that currently in Jerusalem there are those who are planning already to rebuild the temple

    That will be troublous times for anyone who stands in their way

    Because they will think that these are troublers interfering with the work of GOD and many Christians who speak up trying to correct their older unbelieving Jewish brothers will be killed
     
  13. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    We have gotten off the subject of this thread, which is what Irenaeus taught. Whether or not he was correct in his teaching is a different subject.

    Let's return to the subject, and save discussions of what constitutes correct doctrine for another thread.
     
  14. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    No

    There is a seven year tribulation
    And this fade one will make a covenant which the unbelieving Jews will embrace as wonderful!!the rebuilding of the eaerhky temple

    Which is NOT...wonderful

    Let us not pass over that part

    It's what will cause the "wounds received in the house of my friends"
     
  15. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    If you wish to discuss these things, start a new thread. I was drawn off into an off topic discussion, but having realized that, I will not continue it.
     
  16. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

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    Thank you. I started this thread because the discussion of the OP was taking another thread off topic.
     
  17. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    I think it would be more accurate to say that the doctrine of Irenaeus does not have any apparent contradictions, when viewed from a Dispensational perspective. But when viewed fro -m any other perspective, his comments seem contradictory. And as I saw a great amount of Dispensationalism explicitly taught in the writings of Irenaeus, It seems logical to conclude that he was probably approaching these ideas from a Dispensational mindset.
     
  18. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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    if the church is now Israel explain your view of Psalm 105 how can this be the church?
    He is the LORD our God;
    His judgments are in all the earth.
    8 He remembers His covenant forever,
    The word which He commanded, for a thousand generations,
    9 The covenant which He made with Abraham,
    And His oath to Isaac,
    10 And confirmed it to Jacob for a statute,
    To Israel as an everlasting covenant,
    11 Saying, “To you I will give the land of Canaan
    As the allotment of your inheritance,”

    God confirmed the covenant with the land placing no restriction on Abraham. God alone passed through and consumed with fire the offering Abraham had made. God made another promise that in Abraham's seed all the nations of the world would be blessed. The genealogy went from Eve with the promise the seed of the woman would crush the head of the serpent. Then this promise is given to Abraham and followed all the way to David who was promised his son would sit forever on the throne. This is followed to Christ. God is keeping both of these covenants. Jer promised a new covenant for the removal of sin not according to the one God made with Moses in the wilderness. The covenant with Abraham still stands regarding the land. The throne of David is an earthly throne and Jesus will hold it for 1000 years. His kingdom will have no end but this earth will burn up with fervent heat at the end of the age.
     
  19. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    There's only ONE NEW JERUSALEM

    and it is made up of 24 elders: 12 foundational walls with the names of the 12 apostles and 12 gates symbolic of the 12 tribes of Israel

    In "ONE HOUSE"
     
  20. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    As faithful Christians we ARE the seed of Abraham. Galatians 3:26 If you belong to Christ, you are the issue of Abraham and the heirs by virtue of the Promise.
    This is the plain truth: Every born again Christian IS an Israelite of God, there is NO ethnic divisions in God's sight. Ephesians 2:11-18
    People only persist with the nonsense of a separate 'Israel' and 'Church', in order to support the false 'rapture to heaven' theory.
     
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