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Discussion in 'General Theology' started by SayaOtonashi, Jul 8, 2019.

  1. SayaOtonashi

    SayaOtonashi Newbie

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    Why does God stop rapists in his own home. Why doesn't he destroy evil? There are many things people can't know unless we know
     
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  2. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Well-Known Member

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    ...because then we wouldn't be here...
     
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  3. SavedByGrace3

    SavedByGrace3 Whoever calls on the name of Jesus will be saved Supporter

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    If God destroyed sinners... nobody would be left.
     
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  4. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    Well ... we do know (many of us anyways) ... and we do share what we know with the worldlings, but they don't believe it.

    First He cleaned up heaven by casting Lucifer and His corrupt angels to the earth. They in turn infected the earth and it's inhabitants.

    The earth is not Gods home .... yet ... and He WILL destroy all evil and re-create a new and perfect earth for eternity.

    There are yet people to be saved for eternity before He does that.

    If one claims they don't know then they are not studying the Lords word much.
     
  5. Yennora

    Yennora Buy the truth and sell it not. Pro 23:23

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    I don't know, I wish if he did. One of the main reasons I was on the edge of losing my faith was this issue.

    What good do we get when a child rapist succeeds in hurting children and destroying their well being and the well being of their famillies? What good do we get when a priest abuses children and break the sense of security that child and their family had towards the church and God? What good do we get when foolish people like Stalin and Hitler manage to come to power and kill/torture a multitude of innocent people? What good do we get when religious radicals in the middle east kidnap minorites and force them to Islam and rape them?...No good and the list goes on. There is no light in any of these. All are ugly events that make you wish earth never existed.

    I got angry at God many times for these but I came to believe that it is not his mistake. God doesn't control everything. Or to better say it; For God to interfere fully into our lives some conditions have to be met. And some of the conditions are not based on our goodness.

    Sadly, the conditions are not met for everyone, and hence, not everyone is safe. Even if the victim is saint-like with a golden heart. If the conditions are not met, they are unsafe. And this is painful. I'm not saying that I'm happy with this, I'm just stating what I have observed so far.

    To readers, bash me till the next year in the replies for saying this, I don't care. It is the truth that I have observed so far.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
  6. Blade

    Blade Veteran Supporter

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    We are free.. and this is Satan world right now.. as it is written. So.. the lord will let us know some who. about things like this.. DO WE PRAY? Some wont get this..but we MUST pray to give GOD the right so many times to act. You think GOD Just set Peter free because HE wanted to? No. they were praying for him at that moment. We have been given ALL POWER Over the enemy. WE
     
  7. Root of Jesse

    Root of Jesse Admiral of the Fleet/First Sea Lord Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    You get people who are so outraged that they find a way to get the perp and put him where he belongs, in other words, the opportunity to do good.
    We get stronger faith because we realize that the man in the collar isn't the faith. The faith is Christ, all of us are fallen. Again, this is something good.
    We get martyrs for the faith, and learn to sing "Faith of our Fathers", and learn what it means to allow little pieces of evil to get through. Again, something good.
    I believe I have shown you light.
    God does control everything, but love without free will is not love. God gives us the desire to love anything we want, even if it's not Him. Ask Eve.
    A man was walking to church one Sunday and saw a child on the corner begging for food. Obviously starving, this affected the man to such a degree that, upon entering the church he prayed "God? If you're really there, I have a question. Why do you allow such suffering as that child outside? Why don't you do anything about it?" And he heard a reply "Child, I have done something about it. I made it so you would pass by that child, feel empathy for that child, and give her some food of yours. I gave you the resources to help that child."
     
  8. LaBèlla

    LaBèlla Well-Known Member

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    That’s a difficult question and one many ask who’ve suffered physical harm or watched loved ones experience the same.

    Our minds and hearts can’t fathom atrocities in light of the possibility of something greater than ourselves. And to tell you the truth, I don’t understand.

    It’s one thing to recite a verse and another to wrestle with the fallout of the harm you’ve noted. The issue is made real when it lands on your doorstep.

    So how do you reconcile it all? Just as you’ve done. By asking questions. Admitting your lack of understanding. Those honest words aren’t a slight to God. Ask Him to help you through it and give you peace.
     
  9. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Hi, Saya . . . God bless you.

    I do not know. But God's word is very clear that there is evil, and God is greater than any and all evil. And while we obey Him, with God we can get the good which can come from what this evil world does. Our example of this is how people hated and tortured and murdered Jesus who is God's own Son; but God has used this for so much good.

    And God's word tells us to live like Jesus was loving, on the cross >

    "And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:2)

    This is impossible for us to get ourselves to do, isn't it? So, we trust in God to change us so we love like Jesus on the cross, no matter what happens to us or to anyone we care about.

    Yes, evil is horrible . . . and much more than we can know now. But God is superior to all evil. And God is managing it to where it will spend eternity, in the flaming sewer which burns with fire and brimstone. But the best revenge against evil and Satan and evil people is not how they will go to Hell. The best revenge is that we trust in Jesus and become pleasing sweetly to our Father while we love and care for any and all people.

    Of course, that is not good. And the ones who do the evil could be in much worse trouble and suffering, than the ones they hurt; or they will be.

    While I was cruel and brutal, I was missing out on love.

    But the perfect revenge is not how evil people will suffer > perfect revenge includes how we forgive, so evil can not decide how we are and how we see things and what we do. With Jesus, we can help evil people to be with God and find out how to love; and this is perfect revenge against Satan.

    Also, always with our Creator, we can create the good we can do to love any person, at all. And Jesus on the cross suffered and died like that, with hope for any evil person, at all > love "hopes all things" (in 1 Corinthians 13:7).

    Only God in us is able to have us loving, like this. He is almighty to do His good in us, even while the world around us is so evil.

    God does do good. By the way, I notice how evil keeps getting stopped and it does not do all that it could do. Plus, after all they did to Jesus on the cross, Jesus rose from the dead. And He still had those wounds, but they had not effect. It is like this in God's love > God's almighty power in His love can keep us from suffering, plus He makes us able to personally do good to love people.

    So, no matter how wrong people do evil, always you can do what God has you doing.

    By the way, one time a guy demanded to know why God has not stopped how people hurt children. I said, "What are you going to do about it?" And he got mad. And it seems he had no intention of helping any children; but he did some things which told me he was trying to get me into doing some evil pleasure things with him. Now, I'm not saying every person who complains about hurt children is trying to use people and they don't care, really, about children. But it seems that particular man did not really care about what is good.

    Satan can bring things to criticize God, but he has evil motives. If he can keep you weak, by keeping you away from God, you are weak enough for Satan to use you and make you suffer. And, by the way, weakness for selfish pleasure is also weakness to suffer pain later.

    So, trust God to prove Himself to you, in you. And trust Him to have you discover the good you can do.

    Satan and his evil ones are the ones who can wish they never existed. The earth is God's good creation . . . no need for God's creation to not exist. So, then, who would have you feeling God's earth should not exist????

    Here is another thing > just because there is evil, this does not decide if God has power and control or not.

    There is God, and evil is a reality. There is nothing I can do to change this. But we can submit to God and discover all He is committed to doing, which will last much longer than things which evil can mess with! Consider this > Evil can not mess with what God is taking care of; and God is doing all which He is committed to doing; so it is wise to be with Him, and this also so we can do what is good and which will last and be safe.

    If you don't think God is in control, consider how our Father could raise Jesus from the dead, in a totally different body which had wounds but did not suffer.

    Meanwhile, there are many things humans try to do, and they fail, because what humans can get themselves to do is not secure.

    "Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." (Romans 12:21)
     
  10. Yennora

    Yennora Buy the truth and sell it not. Pro 23:23

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    I have rejected the idea that there is a greater good behind the pain of others. So I won't agree with you on what you perceive is the light.

    People are so valuable in a way that we cannot simply say "Oh look, this guy has cancer but his cancer reunited everyone". No, cancer is cancer. An ugly reality.

    However, I agree with you that God uses us to bring good into this world. Exactly as you said in the story of the homeless girl. This is exactly how I perceived God when I was on the edge of Atheism and was a main reason I returned to my faith. The concept that God is not a central authority but that God is in the hearts of the good ones. And through the good ones evil falls and good reigns.

    And then, now I believe that God is both, a central authority and is in the hearts. I'm still struggling to solve the puzzle but if I will say anything then -> Let us trust his goodness and do our parts and wait for the day when it all ends.
     
  11. Yennora

    Yennora Buy the truth and sell it not. Pro 23:23

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    Thank you for taking the time to write this response. I appreciate it. I learnt from your words that instead of blaming God, I should do something to change the world myself. Which I believe to be a part of the methodology of elimination of evil. Since it doesn't look like God can do it directly at all times. So we have to give ourselves to God, to use us as the soldiers for good. Complex, but necessary. Still a burden though, and still it could have been better if Earth never existed. I'm sorry but that's what I'm convinced of after years of overthinking and a lot of spiritual struggle in the last 3 years.
     
  12. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    God does do good, directly, but He is about sharing.

    So, Jesus has come to this earth, in order to reach us and save us and share with us. Yes, He has us fighting evil, but first is how we need to become so it is good for us and we have God and His good of His love while fighting.

    Also, God wants us to have the good things which He shares with us. He does not want us to only be fighting evil.

    And I think of this > have you noticed how evil often has to hide? And often, even if evil acts out in the open, it has to lie and deny? This is because evil is not free to do anything, at all. There is what is superior to evil. Even humans are superior enough to stop evil, but humans give in.

    But this shows how we humans need Jesus so we can't be fooled by predator priests and others, and so we can't be scared into surrendering and quitting, and so we do not only make a project of fighting the evil, but our attention is first to seeking God for Himself and enjoying sharing with Him in His love while we obey what He has us doing, and have sharing as family with His people.

    But, of course, there is the evil excuse that so many church people are hypocrites. Well, if you judge by the surface, this is what you will see; this is how evil has things rigged to look. But in God's love we are with Him in His kingdom >

    "rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)

    God in His love is gentle and quiet > Jesus His Son is "gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls." (in Matthew 11:28-30)

    So, we can see how we ourselves are helping ourselves to give in to evil, by not being gentle and quiet with God and not obeying how Jesus has us doing things with "rest for your souls." But people get tricked into trying to fight evil directly, in their own human capability. And so even ministers get burnt out and stressed out and frustrated and bitter and unforgiving and blaming others for not helping them.

    Well, we must learn how to walk in love which keeps us wise and sensible and creative while in His rest. Jesus is resting, Jesus is creative, Jesus is succeeding in what will last for eternity. And only Jesus will guide us to what will work.

    If what we have been doing is not working, this is because this is what does not work!!
     
  13. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    If a person, including yourself at this time, is in a middle of a tragedy it is not the right time to be philosophical about tragedies, since Loving, serving, helping listening and spending time with the person is what’s needed.

    Do not read further if this is the case and lets us work in Love on getting you through this tragedy.

    Paul prayed many times for his thorn in the flesh to be removed and it was not, because it was there to help him.

    This messed up world is actually the very best place to help willing individuals fulfill their earthly objective.

    We all look forward to being in heaven where there are no needy people, no sorrow, no death, and no sin.

    This earth is not to be heaven, if we did not need this earth to be the way it is, we could all start out in heaven.

    Is death bad in and of itself?

    The same situation which strengths a person faith, will harden another person’s heart, so should God stop providing the message and/or the situation which will soften the accepting heart?



    This world is full of tragedies, which can also be viewed as opportunities to help humans fulfill their earthly objective.

    We have an earthly objective.



    The story of Adam and Eve (Gen 3)(you do not have to believe it is true to get the message) is told very early, because all individuals ask the question: “Why would a truly Loving God not put us all in a Garden type situation?” The story of A&E explains why we are in our situation:

    1. God desires is that we all be in a Garden type situation, but God quenches His own desire to provide a better situation for us to fulfill our earthly objective.

    2. Our earthly object is not to “worship God”, “to never/ever sin”, run around free, just don’t sin, or be good. God does not need anything from us, but is just trying to give something to us. God is trying to give us the greatest power in all universes; the power that compels God to do all He does, but that power cannot be forced on us (take it or I torture you) or can it be instinctive to man (robotically programmed in humans). It is a gift from God that is totally undeserved and unconditional (so it is Charity), but man has to accept the gift as it was given. Humans, instinctive to survival, (which is good for man to have) does not help an individual to want to take charity especially if it comes at a huge cost to the giver.

    3. The gift is Godly type Love which is best defined by Christ’s words and deeds. God will do all he can to help those that are willing to accept His help, fulfill their earthly objective of accepting His Love and growing that Love. Included in “all that God will do and allow to happen” are: Christ going to the cross, satan roaming the earth, sin, hell and tragedies of all kinds.

    4. First off; death is the way good people get to go home and the way bad people stop doing bad stuff, so death is not “bad” in and of itself.

    5. It is truly unfortunate and not God’s desire that tragedies have to occur. God has to quench His desire to allow tragedies, for man’s sake to help humans accept Love. People have to see, experience, witness, receive and even give Godly type Love, before they will even understand and desire such a Love. Some even after receiving Godly type Love from an individual just like themselves will not want it or explain it away (justifying in their own mind: the person is just trying to gain respect or earn their way to heaven or they are making up for the bad they have done).

    6. Everyone on earth is needy, because everyone has hurt others (sinned) and should feel the burden of the sin at least for a while. Their creator is trying to give them Love in the form of forgiveness so they will Love (the Bible and life teach us: “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…”) If we realize and except forgiveness of an unbelievable huge debt created by our sins, we will automatically receive an unbelievable huge Love (Godly type Love) that is truly ours.

    7. There are a huge amount of sever tragedies in this world, but they are really opportunities for good people to show, give, experience, grow and witness Godly type Love. With all those tragedies some good people are still not responding, so are more needed? It is not our job to provide tragedies, but to solve, reduce, eliminate all we can, by allowing the Spirit to work through us.

    8. Scripture tells us the needy will be with us always on this earth. Christ did not “heal” all those that were sick, but used those tragedies around Him to express Godly Love and show us how we are to handle tragedies (serve others with Love). Healing everyone without the witness of Godly type Love being seen in serving individual like any other person would not get other people to accept God’s Love in faith and humility, but we could grow from the experience.

    9. This world is not our Home and our rest comes later. It is both a privilege and Honor to allow the Holy Spirit to work through us in serving others in this world to best help everyone around us to accept God’s Love (fulfill their objective).

    10. If you had to find the most Christ Like person in the world today, where would you look?

    I see Jesus explaining it in John 9: 1-7.

    In John 9: 1-7 you have a tragedy (the apostles are asking about a specific tragedy, but they do not know this individual and are thinking in general terms [you need to get into their head]).

    Jesus does not say: “this tragedy was caused by: Adam/Eve sinning, Satan, sin, bad luck, God or evil in the world (those have been our answers).”

    Jesus does not say: “It was because of the bad that happened”, but does say: “This is for the good that can (and in this case will) happen.”

    If you have lived for very long, you have seen good come from some tragedies, but why not all tragedies?

    Is someone keeping good from coming from every tragedy?

    Everything that is happening in the world right now (disease, natural disasters, and tragedies of all kinds) are not the result of the bad that has happened (or Adam and Eve), but is the result of the GOOD that can happen!

    God is quenching His desire to have us all in a Garden type situation to help us fulfill our objective.

    Everything starts and ends with the objective;



    The objective of humans is to: “Love God (and secondly others) with all your heart, soul, mind, and energy and Love others.” The definition of “Love” is key for it is not instinctive or just emotional but it is Love of your enemies, described by Jesus’ life and Paul in 1 Cor. 13 and by John. It requires a free will moral decision to Love over likely alternatives (the perceived pleasures of sin for a season). The fall was tragic and not God’s desire, but may have been both inevitable and necessary. For all humans since the fall that have come to Love God started out by accepting God’s Love in the form of forgiveness.

    Needy people create opportunities to experience, see, accept, express and receive Godly type Love. Everyone needs the full opportunity to accept Godly type Love which may have to be done when the person reaches the bottom like the prodigal son.

    The innocent that died as the result of God’s action may not really suffer as far as we know.

    There would have to be some benefit for humans to have faith that would help them fulfill their objective, over not needing faith, so what is the benefit?

    1. We either have faith in self or we put our trust in God. Self-reliance has to do with our money, country, insurance, family, friends, achievements and pride, while reliance on God is just the opposite and requires putting self aside; going from being perceived independent to being dependent on God.

    2. Faith in God is a humbling experience, because it is something that the lowliest person can do and actually maybe more likely to do. You are no better than the lowliest believing person when it comes to faith.

    3. Believing God/trusting God comes out of an admitted need for help. We all need help all the time, but might not feel or admit that need strongly until in a tragedy and if we live long enough we will all experience tragedies. Turning to God is an easy act of humility (made easy by tragedies), and we need humility to accept charity. God’s forgiveness of our sins is an act of charity (grace/mercy/Love). “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…” and thus fulfill our earthly objective by just accepting charity.

    4. Faith can produce humility, and humility allows one to accept charity, and forgiveness is Charity and forgiveness produces Love.

    Did Adam and Eve have faith? Did the Jews that crossed the Red Sea have faith? Is faith needed in heaven? Is our faith the determining factor to our salvation?
     
  14. Root of Jesse

    Root of Jesse Admiral of the Fleet/First Sea Lord Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    And yet, the sacrifice of Christ on the cross was for our sins, so the pain he dealt with was for the greater good of others.
    As the care-taker of a cancer patient, I can tell you that her cancer brought our family back together. People who haven't talked to each other (or to us) have come back together because of my wife's terminal cancer. Is her cancer still terminal? You bet, and people being people, those people will possibly go back to the state they were in. But for a time, the family got back together. My wife is suffering horribly, but when she sees the family back together, she blossoms like a flower, happy even in her own suffering. And that was my point.
    I, as well, struggle with the puzzle life gives us, but I try to see it from aa different viewpoint than the one in the midst of suffering.
     
  15. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    ..do you despise the riches of his goodness, forbearance, and patience, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?
    Romans 2:4

    But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you, that you may be children of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust.
    Mat. 5:44-45

    I think the reason is, God is patient. Don’t worry, end of evil will come eventually. :)
     
  16. Root of Jesse

    Root of Jesse Admiral of the Fleet/First Sea Lord Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    Thank you folks for your prayers.
     
  17. Root of Jesse

    Root of Jesse Admiral of the Fleet/First Sea Lord Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    Yennora, God uses us to do His works directly at all times. If you do a work of mercy (feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, etc.), you are doing it at His command, not of your own free will. And God doesn't look for perfect people to do His will, he uses those who are available. Who make themselves available. But sometimes he knocks us off our high horse, as in the case of Paul. I knew a priest who was once asked How did God choose you to become a priest? His answer was...God was walking through the gutter, and he tripped over me, picked me up out of my misery, and said 'You'll do'. This priest was a multi-million dollar real estate agent in LA, fell into a cocaine crowd, and lost it all, ended up homeless. God found him in the gutter, literally, and used him to preach to the faithful and faithless.
     
  18. SayaOtonashi

    SayaOtonashi Newbie

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    Why not have Jesus come down? Evil should have to exist for so long. God can just have the second coming early
     
  19. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    In someway evil (sin) is not the problem, since all mature adults sin. The problem is humbly accepting God's charity in the form of forgiveness.
     
  20. Root of Jesse

    Root of Jesse Admiral of the Fleet/First Sea Lord Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    This implies that God doesn't have a perfect plan, that he needs to tweak it and come early. God will come in His own time. Remember, not my will, by Thine be done.
     
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