Intersex Dating

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badatusernames

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Hi everyone!

So, I have been dating this girl for almost 11 months now and it's been amazing. She's a real blessing to me. Anyway, she recently told me about something that I'm not sure how to take. She told me that she can never have children because she has CAIS, or Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome. If you are not familiar with this, it means that she actually is genetically male, but because her body cannot process androgens, she externally developed female and was declared female at birth. However, internally she has no uterus, ovaries, never had a period, etc.

First, I'm not in a sinful relationship, right? I'm a Side B Christian and believe, or thought I did, that sex is determined by genetics. However, now I'm not sure.
Secondly, what should I do? Is anyone here an intersex Christian and tell me how I can best support her as her partner?

Thanks and God bless!
 

Saucy

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Hi everyone!

So, I have been dating this girl for almost 11 months now and it's been amazing. She's a real blessing to me. Anyway, she recently told me about something that I'm not sure how to take. She told me that she can never have children because she has CAIS, or Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome. If you are not familiar with this, it means that she actually is genetically male, but because her body cannot process androgens, she externally developed female and was declared female at birth. However, internally she has no uterus, ovaries, never had a period, etc.

First, I'm not in a sinful relationship, right? I'm a Side B Christian and believe, or thought I did, that sex is determined by genetics. However, now I'm not sure.
Secondly, what should I do? Is anyone here an intersex Christian and tell me how I can best support her as her partner?

Thanks and God bless!
Sex is still determined by genetics. Just because she doesn't have ovaries and all of that, she's still a woman because she has female genitalia. She would be a man if she had male genitals. I don't think you're sinning at all. The main thing to be worried about is if you want your own kids or not.
 
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Dave-W

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Hi everyone!

So, I have been dating this girl for almost 11 months now and it's been amazing. She's a real blessing to me. Anyway, she recently told me about something that I'm not sure how to take. She told me that she can never have children because she has CAIS, or Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome
Yes, I have heard of that. She is XY but developed female due to a hormonal insensitivity. Swyer's Syndrome is another variant of that same thing.

First, I'm not in a sinful relationship, right?
If you have not had sex, then no.

But as to whether marrying "her" would be sinful, that is undetermined at this point. The bible does not delve into genetics. Every time I have brought it up for discussion on this or another board, no one wants to take it as a serious issue. Your questioning proves it IS serious.

I wish I had an answer. All I can say is pray a LOT. Get good godly counsel from your parents, her parents, your clergy.
 
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Hieronymus

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I can imagine you're shocked.
This rare condition is (i.m.o.) the only situation in which a genetic male can be an actual woman.
She turned out to be a woman by nature, so i.m.o. she's a woman.
Unless you wish to have children, i can see a few advantages actually.
But i think the question should be: Do you love her?
Can you stay in love with her with this new information?
If not, try to remain friends, but work towards ending the relationship as it is developing up until now.
But i guess time will tell..

I think 'dumping her because of genetics' is not the right decision.
 
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RaymondG

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Do you ever want to have children? This would be my only concern.....not whether or not sin is happening. We Christians are just too eager to discover sin and the ways of the "devil" If you want children, this is an obvious problem......If you dont, then stop trying to make problems.
 
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drjean

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I suspect there is more to his / her story than what has been given to you.

Doctors don't determine the sex of a person, genes do.
Sometimes when a child is born with both physical indicators they let the parents decide what to call the baby, and if a girl, have the male parts removed. Sometimes they remove the female parts if they want the baby to grow up as a boy. Genetic testing is widely available now (if xrays show both) to determine genetic structure...


I'm sorry, but you will never know the whole story, even if this person does (parents or doctors could have lied.) You'll always have doubts and perhaps regrets too if you pursue this relationship. It's good that he/she told you but... I'd shy away if I were you. Marriage is mainly for having babies. Marriage is based upon trust. You already can't find that here.
You can stay friends if you wish, but I'd keep it platonic. Just my POV.

Editted: to clarify, this IS a hormonal issue. The person is male, and needs hormonal treatment to counter the female development. Just because the body doesn't produce what is needed, well... that is what ALL medicine does, provide what the body needs to grow, fight infection etc.
 
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RaymondG

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I suspect there is more to his / her story than what has been given to you.

Doctors don't determine the sex of a person, genes do.
Sometimes when a child is born with both physical indicators they let the parents decide what to call the baby, and if a girl, have the male parts removed. Sometimes they remove the female parts if they want the baby to grow up as a boy. Genetic testing is widely available now (if xrays show both) to determine the hormonal structure...


I'm sorry, but you will never know the whole story, even if this person does (parents or doctors could have lied.) You'll always have doubts and perhaps regrets too if you pursue this relationship. It's good that he/she told you but... I'd shy away if I were you. Marriage is mainly for having babies. Marriage is based upon trust. You already can't find that here.
You can stay friends if you wish, but I'd keep it platonic. Just my POV.
Would you like God to shy away from you because of sins you dont know of, or for being born in a situation you had no control over?

Anyone who believes that Marriage is mainly for having babies maybe shouldn't be giving relationship advise.
 
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Saucy

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Based on what?
Based on her female genitalia she was born with. Genetic accidents do happen on occasion. I personally wouldn't start a relationship with her because I want to have kids some day. I knew a lady with this condition and she had never changed her appearance or had to take hormones and was every bit a woman as everyone else. She was just stuck with a pre-pubescent figure and couldn't have kids.
 
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Radagast

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She told me that she can never have children because she has CAIS, or Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome. If you are not familiar with this, it means that she actually is genetically male, but because her body cannot process androgens, she externally developed female and was declared female at birth. However, internally she has no uterus, ovaries, never had a period, etc.

Which makes her, I would think, a woman with some unusual problems.

believe, or thought I did, that sex is determined by genetics.

Usually it is. But a Y chromosome doesn't make you male, it (normally) kickstarts a hormonal process that makes you male. If the hormonal process doesn't happen, having a Y chromosome doesn't do much.

I can see this would be difficult to deal with; may God be with you.
 
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Petros2015

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So, I have been dating this girl for almost 11 months now and it's been amazing. She's a real blessing to me.

I think that's all you need to know.
 
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Dave-W

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I do understand what you meant. My point is that that in a male walking and looking like a woman does not necessarily make him a woman. (on a chromosomal level)

The Church as a whole (all factions) need to come together and prayerfully discuss this out.
 
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Hieronymus

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I didn't say that, but it's not uncommon for one party in a dating relationship, particularly among younger people, to make up some story in order to ease the other one out of the relationship, or to test his or her commitment to it, or to explain away something he or she's done, etc. That doesn't mean that CAIS isn't real, but she could have read or heard about it.
Quite far fetched.
 
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badatusernames

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Sex is still determined by genetics. Just because she doesn't have ovaries and all of that, she's still a woman because she has female genitalia. She would be a man if she had male genitals. I don't think you're sinning at all. The main thing to be worried about is if you want your own kids or not.

Thank you for your answer. Yes her genetalia is exterally female. Iam fine with adopting.

Yes, I have heard of that. She is XY but developed female due to a hormonal insensitivity. Swyer's Syndrome is another variant of that same thing.


If you have not had sex, then no.

But as to whether marrying "her" would be sinful, that is undetermined at this point. The bible does not delve into genetics. Every time I have brought it up for discussion on this or another board, no one wants to take it as a serious issue. Your questioning proves it IS serious.

I wish I had an answer. All I can say is pray a LOT. Get good godly counsel from your parents, her parents, your clergy.

Thank you for your answer. No, we haven't had sex. Her parents obviously are aware, I'm not sure our pastor is so I wasn't going to talk to someone she knew about her without her permission.

Yes, I had always heard vaguely of intersex people, but it wasn't real or always "other people"

I can imagine you're shocked.
This rare condition is (i.m.o.) the only situation in which a genetic male can be an actual woman.
She turned out to be a woman by nature, so i.m.o. she's a woman.
Unless you wish to have children, i can see a few advantages actually.
But i think the question should be: Do you love her?
Can you stay in love with her with this new information?
If not, try to remain friends, but work towards ending the relationship as it is developing up until now.
But i guess time will tell..

I think 'dumping her because of genetics' is not the right decision.

Thank you for your response. Yes, I still love her very much.

just be there for her keep listening no judging and love her just like Jesus would love her

Thank you for your response


Do you ever want to have children? This would be my only concern.....not whether or not sin is happening. We Christians are just too eager to discover sin and the ways of the "devil" If you want children, this is an obvious problem......If you dont, then stop trying to make problems.

I do want to have children, but am perfectly fine with adopting.

I suspect there is more to his / her story than what has been given to you.

Doctors don't determine the sex of a person, genes do.
Sometimes when a child is born with both physical indicators they let the parents decide what to call the baby, and if a girl, have the male parts removed. Sometimes they remove the female parts if they want the baby to grow up as a boy. Genetic testing is widely available now (if xrays show both) to determine genetic structure...


I'm sorry, but you will never know the whole story, even if this person does (parents or doctors could have lied.) You'll always have doubts and perhaps regrets too if you pursue this relationship. It's good that he/she told you but... I'd shy away if I were you. Marriage is mainly for having babies. Marriage is based upon trust. You already can't find that here.
You can stay friends if you wish, but I'd keep it platonic. Just my POV.

Editted: to clarify, this IS a hormonal issue. The person is male, and needs hormonal treatment to counter the female development. Just because the body doesn't produce what is needed, well... that is what ALL medicine does, provide what the body needs to grow, fight infection etc.

Thank you for your response, but I'm not sure you quite understand what I am talking about. It's not that her body doesn't produce androgens, it's that it can't process them..

I do know the whole story, she was expected to be a girl in the womb, she was born female, and throughout her child nobody suspected anything wrong. When she was 12 and started debeloping is when her mom told her about what would start happening her, well a year past and she had started developing, but never got her period. When she was 14, and still didn't have one is when they suspected something was seriously wrong and got further testing. It was discovered she had no internal genetalia, in fact, she had undescended testes (which she had removed in high school due to cancer risks), and her DNA came back XY. She spent about six montha in counseling after the diagnosis to help come to terms with it.

How do you know that she's telling the truth about herself, even if CAIS is a genuine medical condition?

Thank you for your response! I trust her to be telling the truth, and her parents asked me how I was doing after they found out she told me.
 
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badatusernames

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Which makes her, I would think, a woman with some unusual problems.



Usually it is. But a Y chromosome doesn't make you male, it (normally) kickstarts a hormonal process that makes you male. If the hormonal process doesn't happen, having a Y chromosome doesn't do much.

I can see this would be difficult to deal with; may God be with you.

Thank you for your response! I'm still learning a lot about this.

I think that's all you need to know.

Thank you for your answer!
 
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Do you love her? That is the only important question here. If so, stay with her. It is not a sin to have a relationship with this person.

As for children, many couples get married and later find out that they cannot have children for various reasons. If you two want to have children that is what adoption is for.
 
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Saucy

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Essentially, this isn't an issue of morality. She's not choosing to be transgender or pretending to be another sex she's not. She was open, honest, and had counseling to deal with the issue herself. She's done everything the right way and I think you'd be a fool to leave her over this, which it seems like you're still just as committed as before!
 
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