Interesting video debate Messianic vs Orthodox Jew

Yeshua HaDerekh

Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it
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Just hitting the disagreement button doesn't prove your case that you are right with Scripture in any way.
You actually have to back up what you are saying with Scripture and you have to explain the verses I have put forth as not meaning what they say they mean.


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Well Yeshua said "Get thee behind me satan" to Peter. So explain why this means circumcision of the heart...

That is what you are asking me to do. Get it? It has nothing to do with it. Again, what Yeshua was explaining to Nakdimon has nothing to do with anything you have written.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Again, give me a specific set of verses.

I am reading Isaiah 52 and I see God talking to Jerusalem and then the topic changes to a servant. Nowhere is Jerusalem said to be this servant whose visage was marred more than any other man. There is no connecton that they are one and the same in any way. The reading of Isaiah 52:13-15 and Isaiah 53 does not make any sense if you read it as talking about Israel. If you read it as talking about Jesus, it fits perfectly. Read this article here:

Why Israel Cannot be the Suffering Servant in Isaiah 53


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Read Isaiah and find out! I told you where they were...
 
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Read Isaiah and find out! I told you where they were...

No, you are being mysterious as to what verses exactly you are talking about.
I read Isaiah 52 looking for the verses you suggest and it does not help your case here.

Read the article I provided.
There is NO WAY Isaiah 53 is in reference to Israel.
It would be non-sensical to read it that way.


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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Again, give me a specific set of verses...

Remember these things, Jacob, for you, Israel, are my servant. I have made you, you are my servant; Israel, I will not forget you.

Yet now hear, O Jacob My servant, And Israel, whom I have chosen

And He said unto me: Thou art My servant, Israel, in whom I will be glorified
 
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Well Yeshua said "Get thee behind me satan" to Peter. So explain why this means circumcision of the heart...

That is what you are asking me to do. Get it? It has nothing to do with it. Again, what Yeshua was explaining to Nakdimon has nothing to do with anything you have written.

So you don't think the disciples were born again and able to enter the Kingdom of God during Christ's Earthly ministry?


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Remember these things, Jacob, for you, Israel, are my servant. I have made you, you are my servant; Israel, I will not forget you.

Yet now hear, O Jacob My servant, And Israel, whom I have chosen

And He said unto me: Thou art My servant, Israel, in whom I will be glorified

You are quoting stuff all the way back in Isaiah 44 as proof text as the individual God is speaking to in Isaiah 53? That would be like skipping chapters in the gospels and doing the same thing to prove your case. Immediate context please.


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Yeshua HaDerekh

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So you don't think the disciples were born again and able to enter the Kingdom of God during Christ's Earthly ministry?
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My Kingdom is not of this world. I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it anew in the kingdom of God
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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You are quoting stuff all the way back in Isaiah 44 as proof text as the individual God is speaking to in Isaiah 53? That would be like skipping chapters in the gospels and doing the same thing to prove your case. Immediate context please.
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I never said that. YOU said I said that. I only said that the servant was Israel in previous verses within Isaiah.
 
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I never said that. YOU said I said that. I only said that the servant was Israel in previous verses within Isaiah.

Well, it sounded like you quoted from Isaiah 44. Please provide exact verse references so as not to cause confusion then.


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My Kingdom is not of this world. I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it anew in the kingdom of God

A simple yes or no to my question would be better.
Are suggesting that the disciples were not born again during Christ's ministry?


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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Well, it sounded like you quoted from Isaiah 44. Please provide exact verse references so as not to cause confusion then.
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You misunderstand again...I DID quote it. YOU said I said it applies to Isaiah 53 that YOU quoted. The only thing I said was that in previous verses, it was Israel that was the servant.
 
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Please read this piece of Scripture very very slowly.

12 "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
(John 1:12-13).


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Yeshua HaDerekh

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A simple yes or no to my question would be better.
Are suggesting that the disciples were not born again during Christ's ministry?


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Read Yeshua teaching Nakdimon regarding having to be being born again to see The Kigndom and you tell me if they fit the description Yeshua gave...
 
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You misunderstand again...I DID quote it. YOU said I said it applies to Isaiah 53 that YOU quoted. The only thing I said was that in previous verses, it was Israel that was the servant.

Now you are not making any sense. We were talking about Isaiah 53 before and you said that it was a reference to Israel. When I finally got you to cough up the actual verses, you referenced Isaiah 44.


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Read Yeshua teaching Nakdimon regarding having to be being born again to see The Kigndom and you tell me if they fit the description Yeshua gave...

Stop making me have to hunt for it.
Snow me the Scriptures!


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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Please read this piece of Scripture very very slowly.

12 "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
(John 1:12-13).


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Filled with The Spirit...born of God...not born again.
 
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Filled with The Spirit...born of God...not born again.

That is like not wanting to see it.
That is a huge stretch.
Please back this thinking up with Scripture please.


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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Now you are not making any sense. We were talking about Isaiah 53 before and you said that it was a reference to Israel. When I finally got you to cough up the actual verses, you referenced Isaiah 44.


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No, you cant read and comprehend. Go back and read what I said. The only thing I said is that PREVIOUS verses held that Israel was the servant.
 
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If you do not reference Scripture, this conversation is going to go nowhere fast.
I am here to discuss the Bible and not play games with people to tell me to just read the Bible to find out what they believe.


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