Interesting verses on the "oblation" and "sanctuary!"

[precepts]

Once again, while doing my usual shabath reading, I came across these interesting verses on the "oblation" and the "sanctuary" that must be relevant to Daniel's 70wks prophecy.

Eze 48:9

The oblation that ye shall offer unto the LORD [shall be] of five and twenty thousand in length, and of ten thousand in breadth.
Eze 48:10 And for them, [even] for the priests, shall be [this] holy oblation; toward the north five and twenty thousand [in length], and toward the west ten thousand in breadth, and toward the east ten thousand in breadth, and toward the south five and twenty thousand in length: and the sanctuary of the LORD shall be in the midst thereof.
Eze 48:11 [It shall be] for the priests that are sanctified of the sons of Zadok; which have kept my charge, which went not astray when the children of Israel went astray, as the Levites went astray.
Eze 48:12 And [this] oblation of the land that is offered shall be unto them a thing most holy by the border of the Levites.
Eze 48:13 And over against the border of the priests the Levites [shall have] five and twenty thousand in length, and ten thousand in breadth: all the length [shall be] five and twenty thousand, and the breadth ten thousand.
Eze 48:14 And they shall not sell of it, neither exchange, nor alienate the firstfruits of the land: for [it is] holy unto the LORD.
Eze 48:15 And the five thousand, that are left in the breadth over against the five and twenty thousand, shall be a profane [place] for the city, for dwelling, and for suburbs: and the city shall be in the midst thereof.
Eze 48:16 And these [shall be] the measures thereof; the north side four thousand and five hundred, and the south side four thousand and five hundred, and on the east side four thousand and five hundred, and the west side four thousand and five hundred.
Eze 48:17 And the suburbs of the city shall be toward the north two hundred and fifty, and toward the south two hundred and fifty, and toward the east two hundred and fifty, and toward the west two hundred and fifty.
Eze 48:18 And the residue in length over against the oblation of the holy [portion shall be] ten thousand eastward, and ten thousand westward: and it shall be over against the oblation of the holy [portion]; and the increase thereof shall be for food unto them that serve the city.
Eze 48:19 And they that serve the city shall serve it out of all the tribes of Israel.
Eze 48:20 All the oblation [shall be] five and twenty thousand by five and twenty thousand: ye shall offer the holy oblation foursquare, with the possession of the city.
Eze 48:21 And the residue [shall be] for the prince, on the one side and on the other of the holy oblation, and of the possession of the city, over against the five and twenty thousand of the oblation toward the east border, and westward over against the five and twenty thousand toward the west border, over against the portions for the prince: and it shall be the holy oblation; and the sanctuary of the house [shall be] in the midst thereof.
Eze 48:22 Moreover from the possession of the Levites, and from the possession of the city, [being] in the midst [of that] which is the prince's, between the border of Judah and the border of Benjamin, shall be for the prince.

The prince's portion being on both sides of the oblation in Eze 48:21 somehow parallels revelation's account of the tree of life, the angel with his foot on the river and on the bank mentiioned in Daniel and Revelation, and the stream that flows from the heavenly throne in Revelation.

Eze 47:12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary:and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.
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Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree [were] for the healing of the nations.
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Rev 10:1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow [was] upon his head, and his face [was] as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:
Rev 10:2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and [his] left [foot] on the earth,
Rev 10:3 And cried with a loud voice, as [when] a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.
Rev 10:4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.
Rev 10:5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
Rev 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
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Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, [even] to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
Dan 12:5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.
Dan 12:6 And [one] said to the man clothed in linen, which [was] upon the waters of the river, How long [shall it be to] the end of these wonders?
Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which [was] upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that [it shall be] for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these [things] shall be finished.

Not to mention the parallels between the angels/men with the measuring reeds having feet of brass in Ezekiel and Revelation.
The interesting thing about these verses in Eze 38 is that they given way before Daniel's 70 wks prophecy:

Eze 40:1 In the five and twentieth year of our captivity, in the beginning of the year, in the tenth [day] of the month, in the fourteenth year after that the city was smitten, in the selfsame day the hand of the LORD was upon me, and brought me thither.
Eze 40:2 In the visions of God brought he me into the land of Israel, and set me upon a very high mountain, by which [was] as the frame of a city on the south.
Eze 40:3 And he brought me thither, and, behold, [there was] a man, whose appearance [was] like the appearance of brass, with a line of flax in his hand, and a measuring reed; and he stood in the gate.

Dan 9:1 In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the seed of the Medes, which was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans;
Dan 9:2 In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.
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Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
-----------------------------------------
Dan 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily [sacrifice], and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Could this be the sanctuary Daniel was referring to since Antiochus III, the Great, ended the Aaronic priestly lineage? Could this be because the 144,000 singers and players of instruments were Levites, and the reason why this sanctuary was set aside as a "profane place" in Eze 48:15?

Hbr 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken [this is] the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
Hbr 8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
-----------------------------------------
Hbr 9:1 Then verily the first [covenant] had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
Hbr 9:2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein [was] the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.
Hbr 9:3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
-------------------------
Hbr 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
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Hbr 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, [which are] the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

KRS1
Keeper of Records and Seals

 

[daq]

Could this be the sanctuary Daniel was referring to since Antiochus III, the Great, ended the Aaronic priestly lineage? Could this be because the 144,000 singers and players of instruments were Levites, and the reason why this sanctuary was set aside as a "profane place" in Eze 48:15?




KRS1
Keeper of Records and Seals

Antiochus III did not end the Aaronic priesthood. Yeshua said his kingdom is not of this world. Therefore immediately following the death and resurrection of Messiah all things became of the Spirit and not of the flesh. As Yeshua said; the words that he speaks, (now written for us in the Gospel record) they are words of Spirit, and those words shall never pass away, and the flesh profits nothing. This transition from flesh to Spirit in the priestly line is also therefore provided for us in the Scripture record:

Numbers 25:10-13 KJV
10. And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
11. Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, hath turned my wrath away from the children of Israel, while he was zealous for my sake among them, that I consumed not the children of Israel in my jealousy.
12. Wherefore say, Behold, I give unto him my covenant of peace:
13. And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel.

1 Chronicles 24:1-10 ASV (American Standard Version)
1. And the courses of the sons of Aaron were these. The sons of Aaron: Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar.
2. But Nadab and Abihu died before their father, and had no children: therefore Eleazar and Ithamar executed the priest's office.
3. And David with Zadok of the sons of Eleazar, and Ahimelech of the sons of Ithamar, divided them according to their ordering in their service.
4. And there were more chief men found of the sons of Eleazar than of the sons of Ithamar; and thus were they divided: of the sons of Eleazar there were sixteen, heads of fathers' houses; and of the sons of Ithamar, according to their fathers' houses, eight.
5. Thus were they divided by lot, one sort with another; for there were princes of the sanctuary, and princes of God, both of the sons of Eleazar, and of the sons of Ithamar.
6. And Shemaiah the son of Nethanel the scribe, who was of the Levites, wrote them in the presence of the king, and the princes, and Zadok the priest, and Ahimelech the son of Abiathar, and the heads of the fathers' houses of the priests and of the Levites; one fathers' house being taken for Eleazar, and one taken for Ithamar.
7. Now the first lot came forth to Jehoiarib, the second to Jedaiah,
8. the third to Harim, the fourth to Seorim,
9. the fifth to Malchijah, the sixth to Mijamin,
10. the seventh to Hakkoz, the eighth to Abijah,

Luke 1:5-9 ASV
5. There was in the days of Herod, king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abijah: and he had a wife of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6. And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
7. And they had no child, because that Elisabeth was barren, and they both were now well stricken in years.
8. Now it came to pass, while he executed the priest's office before God in the order of his course,
9. according to the custom of the priest's office, his lot was to enter into the temple of the Lord and burn incense.

John 1:35-42 ASV
35. Again on the morrow John was standing, and two of his disciples;
36. and he looked upon Jesus as he walked, and saith, Behold, the Lamb of God!
37. And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.
38. And Jesus turned, and beheld them following, and saith unto them, What seek ye? And they said unto him, Rabbi (which is to say, being interpreted, Teacher), where abideth thou?
39. He saith unto them, Come, and ye shall see. They came therefore and saw where he abode; and they abode with him that day: it was about the tenth hour.
40. One of the two that heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother.
41. He findeth first his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messiah (which is, being interpreted, Christ).
42. He brought him unto Jesus. Jesus looked upon him, and said, Thou art Simon the son of John: thou shalt be called Cephas (which is by interpretation, Peter).

1 Peter 2:9-10 KJV
9. But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
10. Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Cephas-Peter the son of John, of the course of Abijah, is quoting from Exodus 19 ~

Exodus 19:4-6 KJV
4. Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
5. Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
6. And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Therefore be sure that you do not stay by the shoreline, frolicking about in the ancle deep waters, fearful of entering into full immersion in the baptismal River of Life. Walk the four thousand cubits until it becomes a river which you cannot pass over by your own will, imagination, or doctrines; for that is where the Father wants his children to be, in faith, and then shall you truly ''follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth''...

 

[precepts]

Antiochus III did not end the Aaronic priesthood.

Logic dictates facts, not opinions. If you're going to refute the facts, try using facts, anything else is insanity.

Yeshua said his kingdom is not of this world. Therefore immediately following the death and resurrection of Messiah all things became of the Spirit and not of the flesh. As Yeshua said; the words that he speaks, (now written for us in the Gospel record) they are words of Spirit, and those words shall never pass away, and the flesh profits nothing. This transition from flesh to Spirit in the priestly line is also therefore provided for us in the Scripture record:

daq 12:23-31 has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

Numbers 25:10-13 KJV

10. And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
11. Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, hath turned my wrath away from the children of Israel, while he was zealous for my sake among them, that I consumed not the children of Israel in my jealousy.
12. Wherefore say, Behold, I give unto him my covenant of peace:
13. And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel.

1 Chronicles 24:1-10 ASV (American Standard Version)
1. And the courses of the sons of Aaron were these. The sons of Aaron: Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar.
2. But Nadab and Abihu died before their father, and had no children: therefore Eleazar and Ithamar executed the priest's office.
3. And David with Zadok of the sons of Eleazar, and Ahimelech of the sons of Ithamar, divided them according to their ordering in their service.
4. And there were more chief men found of the sons of Eleazar than of the sons of Ithamar; and thus were they divided: of the sons of Eleazar there were sixteen, heads of fathers' houses; and of the sons of Ithamar, according to their fathers' houses, eight.
5. Thus were they divided by lot, one sort with another; for there were princes of the sanctuary, and princes of God, both of the sons of Eleazar, and of the sons of Ithamar.
6. And Shemaiah the son of Nethanel the scribe, who was of the Levites, wrote them in the presence of the king, and the princes, and Zadok the priest, and Ahimelech the son of Abiathar, and the heads of the fathers' houses of the priests and of the Levites; one fathers' house being taken for Eleazar, and one taken for Ithamar.
7. Now the first lot came forth to Jehoiarib, the second to Jedaiah,
8. the third to Harim, the fourth to Seorim,
9. the fifth to Malchijah, the sixth to Mijamin,
10. the seventh to Hakkoz, the eighth to Abijah,

Luke 1:5-9 ASV
5. There was in the days of Herod, king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abijah: and he had a wife of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6. And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
7. And they had no child, because that Elisabeth was barren, and they both were now well stricken in years.
8. Now it came to pass, while he executed the priest's office before God in the order of his course,
9. according to the custom of the priest's office, his lot was to enter into the temple of the Lord and burn incense.

John 1:35-42 ASV
35. Again on the morrow John was standing, and two of his disciples;
36. and he looked upon Jesus as he walked, and saith, Behold, the Lamb of God!
37. And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.
38. And Jesus turned, and beheld them following, and saith unto them, What seek ye? And they said unto him, Rabbi (which is to say, being interpreted, Teacher), where abideth thou?
39. He saith unto them, Come, and ye shall see. They came therefore and saw where he abode; and they abode with him that day: it was about the tenth hour.
40. One of the two that heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother.
41. He findeth first his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messiah (which is, being interpreted, Christ).
42. He brought him unto Jesus. Jesus looked upon him, and said, Thou art Simon the son of John: thou shalt be called Cephas (which is by interpretation, Peter).

1 Peter 2:9-10 KJV
9. But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
10. Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Cephas-Peter the son of John, of the course of Abijah, is quoting from Exodus 19 ~

Exodus 19:4-6 KJV
4. Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
5. Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
6. And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Therefore be sure that you do not stay by the shoreline, frolicking about in the ancle deep waters, fearful of entering into full immersion in the baptismal River of Life. Walk the four thousand cubits until it becomes a river which you cannot pass over by your own will, imagination, or doctrines; for that is where the Father wants his children to be, in faith, and then shall you truly ''follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth''...

It's a pity the righteous are few, and the things we the righteous have to endure! I can tell your knowledge of scripture is limited, as is much of the world's. Let he who have ears to hear hear!



Jos 18:7 Butthe Levites have no part among you; for the priesthood of the LORD [is] their inheritance: and Gad, and Reuben, and half the tribe of Manasseh, have received their inheritance beyond Jordan on the east, which Moses the servant of the LORD gave them.




In reference to Zedekiah:
Eze 17:3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; A great eagle with great wings, longwinged, full of feathers, which had divers colours, came unto Lebanon, and took the highest branch of the cedar:
Eze 17:4 He cropped off the top of his young twigs, and carried it into a land of traffick; he set it in a city of merchants.
Eze 17:5 He took also of the seed of the land, and planted it in a fruitful field; he placed [it] by great waters, [and] set it [as] a willow tree.
Eze 17:6 And it grew, and became a spreading vine of low stature, whose branches turned toward him, and the roots thereof were under him: so it became a vine, and brought forth branches, and shot forth sprigs.
Eze 17:7 There was also another great eagle with great wings and many feathers: and, behold, this vine did bend her roots toward him, and shot forth her branches toward him, that he might water it by the furrows of her plantation.
Eze 17:8 It was planted in a good soil by great waters, that it might bring forth branches, and that it might bear fruit, that it might be a goodly vine.
------------------------------------
Eze 17:22 Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will also take of the highest branch of the high cedar, and will set [it]; I will crop off from the top of his young twigs a tender one, and will plant [it] upon an high mountain and eminent:
Eze 17:23 In the mountain of the height of Israel will I plant it: and it shall bring forth boughs, and bear fruit, and be a goodly cedar: and under it shall dwell all fowl of every wing; in the shadow of the branches thereof shall they dwell.
Eze 17:24 And all the trees of the field shall know that I the LORD have brought down the high tree, have exalted the low tree, have dried up the green tree, and have made the dry tree to flourish: I the LORD have spoken and have done [it].



Zec 6:9 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
Zec 6:10 Take of [them of] the captivity, [even] of Heldai, of Tobijah, and of Jedaiah, which are come from Babylon, and come thou the same day, and go into the house of Josiah the son of Zephaniah;
Zec 6:11 Then take silver and gold, and make crowns, and set [them] upon the head of Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest;
Zec 6:12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name [is] The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:
Zec 6:13 Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.


The truth is an offense to some but never a sin!

 

[Interplanner]

To Precepts: why did you quote the passages from Hebrews? It would be more productive if you took things in smaller steps. The question about the ending of Aaronic priesthood almost made a conclusion, but then there were several NT quotes. And your remark about the other person not being very familiar with Scripture was not very worthwhile, because he wrote out several that have the NT speaking specifically about the previous priesthood.

--Inter

 

[precepts]

To Precepts: why did you quote the passages from Hebrews? It would be more productive if you took things in smaller steps. The question about the ending of Aaronic priesthood almost made a conclusion, but then there were several NT quotes. And your remark about the other person not being very familiar with Scripture was not very worthwhile, because he wrote out several that have the NT speaking specifically about the previous priesthood.

--Inter

I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[daq]

Logic dictates facts, not opinions. If you're going to refute the facts, try using facts, anything else is insanity.


daq 12:23-31 has nothing to do with the subject at hand.



It's a pity the righteous are few, and the things we the righteous have to endure! I can tell your knowledge of scripture is limited, as is much of the world's. Let he who have ears to hear hear!

You do not remember our previous conversation? Your knowledge is of history, and you place your knowledge of history over and above the Scripture, and the fragmented historical knowledge which you revere is selective at best. This is proven by the fact that the same Josephus, whose words you cherish when it comes to Antiochus III and Antiochus IV, you rather despise when it comes to the Chronology of Ezra 4 and the clear statements of Josephus placing Ezra, Nehemiah, Sanballat, his daughter Nicasso, and her marriage into the priesthood through Manasseh the brother of Jaddua the high priest at Jerusalem. Josephus pinpoints the events at the end of the book of Nehemiah as occurring during time of Alexander the Great and the battle of Granicus; shortly after which Sanballat and Manasseh built the temple at Mount Gerizzim Samaria. Anyways it is good to know that such a one as yourself, being so full of Scripture knowledge, has no need for the following things to be expounded or explained:

Matthew 16:4 TUA (Transliterated Unaccented)
4. Genea ponera kai moichalis semeionepizetei, kai semeion ou dothesetai aute ei-me to semeion Iona.''^ {*} Kai katalipon autous apelthen.

Matthew 16:17 TUA (Transliterated Unaccented)
17. Apokritheis de ho Iesous eipen auto, ''Makariosei, Simon Bariona, hoti sarx kai haima ouk apekalupsensoi all ho Pater mou ho en tois ouranois.

John 1:42 TUA (Transliterated Unaccented)
42. Egagen auton pros ton Iesoun. Emblepsas auto hoIesous eipen, ''Su ei Simon ho huios Ioannou {*}? Suklethese Kefas^ (ho hermeneuetai petros).''

Semeion Iona = Sign of Yonah-Jonah
Simon Bar-Iona = Simon Bar-Yonah - Simon son of Yonah-Jonah
Simon ho huios Ioannou = Simon the son of John

Matthew 16:4
4. A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of Yonah. And he left them, and departed.

 

[daq]

Oops... Sorry but I just went and checked my copy of Josephus and that spelling above showing ''Granicus'' should actually be ''Granicum'', my bad, (the extra ''s'' in ''Nicasso'' is debatable).

 

[precepts]

You do not remember our previous conversation? Your knowledge is of history, and you place your knowledge of history over and above the Scripture,

Facts are facts no matter where they're found!

and the fragmented historical knowledge which you revere is selective at best.

Which shows your limited knowledge of scripture, much less personalities, you're mistaking me for someone else. My facts about the Aaronic priesthood came from the limited knowledge of "Wikipedia." Their knowledge of the change in the priesthood starts with the reign of Antiochus iv. The truth has to be deduced from the evidence.

This is proven by the fact that the same Josephus, whose words you cherish

To bear false witness is a sin. You have me mistaken for someone else. I would never quote "Flavius" Josephus, a man that adopted the sir name of the biblical 8th Roman horn/emperor, muchless accept his words over biblical or worldly history.

when it comes to Antiochus III and Antiochus IV, you rather despise when it comes to the Chronology of Ezra 4 and the clear statements of Josephus placing Ezra, Nehemiah, Sanballat, his daughter Nicasso, and her marriage into the priesthood through Manasseh the brother of Jaddua the high priest at Jerusalem. Josephus pinpoints the events at the end of the book of Nehemiah as occurring during time of Alexander the Great and the battle of Granicus; shortly after which Sanballat and Manasseh built the temple at Mount Gerizzim Samaria. Anyways it is good to know that such a one as yourself, being so full of Scripture knowledge, has no need for the following things to be expounded or explained:

Your eight layers are showing! You have to be deliberately misleading the facts to achieve your ends of ridicule, making statements like the above. Why this site would allow this type of ridicule and harassment is beyond my comprehension.

Matthew 16:4 TUA (Transliterated Unaccented)
4. Genea ponera kai moichalis semeionepizetei, kai semeion ou dothesetai aute ei-me to semeion Iona.''^ {*} Kai katalipon autous apelthen.

Matthew 16:17 TUA (Transliterated Unaccented)
17. Apokritheis de ho Iesous eipen auto, ''Makariosei, Simon Bariona, hoti sarx kai haima ouk apekalupsensoi all ho Pater mou ho en tois ouranois.

John 1:42 TUA (Transliterated Unaccented)
42. Egagen auton pros ton Iesoun. Emblepsas auto hoIesous eipen, ''Su ei Simon ho huios Ioannou {*}? Suklethese Kefas^ (ho hermeneuetai petros).''

Semeion Iona = Sign of Yonah-Jonah
Simon Bar-Iona = Simon Bar-Yonah - Simon son of Yonah-Jonah
Simon ho huios Ioannou = Simon the son of John

Matthew 16:4
4. A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of Yonah. And he left them, and departed.

Wow!

Josephus pinpoints the events at the end of the book of Nehemiah as occurring during time of Alexander the Great and the battle of Granicus; shortly after which Sanballat and Manasseh built the temple at Mount Gerizzim Samaria.
[/quote]Pure insanity! Maybe someone else on this thread might take the time out to explain the historical facts that you're definitely unfamiliar with. Have a nice day!

 

[daq]

No, that was actually the truth believe it or not. You are not the only one who has ever studied these things and I did in fact quote from the top of my head so that and entire passage from Josephus would not need to be quoted in your thread.

JOSEPHUS - ANTIQUITIES - BOOK 11 - CHAPTER 7:2
2. Now when John had departed this life, his son Jaddua succeeded in the high priesthood. He had a brother, whose name was Manasseh. :Now there was one Sanballat, who was sent by Darius, the last king [of Persia], into Samaria. He was a Cutheam by birth; of which stock were the Samaritans also. This man knew that the city Jerusalem was a famous city, and that their kings had given a great deal of trouble to the Assyrians, and the people of Celesyria; so that he willingly gave his daughter, whose name was Nicaso, in marriage to Manasseh, as thinking this alliance by marriage would be a pledge and security that the nation of the Jews should continue their good-will to him.

JOSEPHUS - ANTIQUITIES - BOOK 11 - CHAPTER 8:1-3
CONCERNING SANBALLAT AND MANASSEH, AND THE TEMPLE WHICH THEY BUILT ON MOUNT GERIZZIM; AS ALSO HOW ALEXANDER MADE HIS ENTRY INTO THE CITY JERUSALEM, AND WHAT BENEFITS HE BESTOWED ON THE JEWS.

1. ABOUT this time it was that Philip, king of Macedon, was treacherously assaulted and slain at Egae by Pausanias, the son of Cerastes, who was derived from the family of Oreste, and his son Alexander succeeded him in the kingdom; who, passing over the Hellespont, overcame the generals of Darius's army in a battle fought at Granicum. So he marched over Lydia, and subdued Ionia, and overran Caria, and fell upon the places of Pamphylia, as has been related elsewhere.

2. But the elders of Jerusalem being very uneasy that the brother of Jaddua the high priest, though married to a foreigner, should be a partner with him in the high priesthood, quarreled with him; for they esteemed this man's marriage a step to such as should be desirous of transgressing about the marriage of [strange] wives, and that this would be the beginning of a mutual society with foreigners, although the offense of some about marriages, and their having married wives that were not of their own country, had been an occasion of their former captivity, and of the miseries they then underwent; so they commanded Manasseh to divorce his wife, or not to approach the altar, the high priest himself joining with the people in their indignation against his brother, and driving him away from the altar. Whereupon Manasseh came to his father-in-law, Sanballat, and told him, that although he loved his daughter Nicaso, yet was he not willing to be deprived of his sacerdotal dignity on her account, which was the principal dignity in their nation, and always continued in the same family. And then Sanballat promised him not only to preserve to him the honor of his priesthood, but to procure for him the power and dignity of a high priest, and would make him governor of all the places he himself now ruled, if he would keep his daughter for his wife. He also told him further, that he would build him a temple like that at Jerusalem, upon Mount Gerizzini, which is the highest of all the mountains that are in Samaria; and he promised that he would do this with the approbation of Darius the king. Manasseh was elevated with these promises, and staid with Sanballat, upon a supposal that he should gain a high priesthood, as bestowed on him by Darius, for it happened that Sanballat was then in years. But there was now a great disturbance among the people of Jerusalem, because many of those priests and Levites were entangled in such matches; for they all revolted to Manasseh, and Sanballat afforded them money, and divided among them land for tillage, and habitations also, and all this in order every way to gratify his son-in-law.

3. About this time it was that Darius heard how Alexander had passed over the Hellespont, and had beaten his lieutenants in the battle at Granicum, and was proceeding further; whereupon he gathered together an army of horse and foot, and determined that he would meet the Macedonians before they should assault and conquer all Asia. So he passed over the river Euphrates, and came over Taurus, the Cilician mountain, and at Issus of Cilicia he waited for the enemy, as ready there to give him battle. Upon which Sanballat was glad that Darius was come down; and told Manasseh that he would suddenly perform his promises to him, and this as soon as ever Darius should come back, after he had beaten his enemies; for not he only, but all those that were in Asia also, were persuaded that the Macedonians would not so much as come to a battle with the Persians, on account of their multitude. But the event proved otherwise than they expected; for the king joined battle with the Macedonians, and was beaten, and lost a great part of his army. His mother also, and his wife and children, were taken captives, and he fled into Persia. So Alexander came into Syria, and took Damascus; and when he had obtained Sidon, he besieged Tyre, when he sent all epistle to the Jewish high priest, to send him some auxiliaries, and to supply his army with provisions; and that what presents he formerly sent to Darius, he would now send to him, and choose the friendship of the Macedonians, and that he should never repent of so doing. But the high priest answered the messengers, that he had given his oath to Darius not to bear arms against him; and he said that he would not transgress this while Darius was in the land of the living. Upon hearing this answer, Alexander was very angry; and though he determined not to leave Tyre, which was just ready to be taken, yet as soon as he had taken it, he threatened that he would make an expedition against the Jewish high priest, and through him teach all men to whom they must keep their oaths. So when he had, with a good deal of pains during the siege, taken Tyre, and had settled its affairs, he came to the city of Gaza, and besieged both the city and him that was governor of the garrison, whose name was Babemeses.

If you had any idea what this does to the modern dispensationalist chronologies, which they use to support a false interpretation of the 70 Weeks of Daniel 9, this information should be invaluable to you.

Nehemiah 12:10-23 KJV
10. And Jeshua begat Joiakim, Joiakim also begat Eliashib, and Eliashib begat Joiada,
11. And Joiada begat Jonathan, and Jonathan begat Jaddua.
12. And in the days of Joiakim were priests, the chief of the fathers: of Seraiah, Meraiah; of Jeremiah, Hananiah;
13. Of Ezra, Meshullam; of Amariah, Jehohanan;
14. Of Melicu, Jonathan; of Shebaniah, Joseph;
15. Of Harim, Adna; of Meraioth, Helkai;
16. Of Iddo, Zechariah; of Ginnethon, Meshullam;
17. Of Abijah, Zichri; of Miniamin, of Moadiah, Piltai:
18. Of Bilgah, Shammua; of Shemaiah, jehonathan;
19. And of Joiarib, Mattenai; of Jedaiah, Uzzi;
20. Of Sallai, Kallai; of Amok, Eber;
21. Of Hilkiah, Hashabiah; of Jedaiah, Nethaneel.
22. The Levites in the days of Eliashib, Joiada, and Johanan, and Jaddua, were recorded chief of the fathers: also the priests, to the reign of Darius the Persian.
23. The sons of Levi, the chief of the fathers, were written in the book of the chronicles, even until the days of Johanan the son of Eliashib.

Nehemiah 13:28-31 KJV
28. And one of the sons of Joiada, the son of Eliashib the high priest, was son in law to Sanballat the Horonite: therefore I chased him from me.
29. Remember them, O my God, because they have defiled the priesthood, and the covenant of the priesthood, and of the Levites.
30. Thus cleansed I them from all strangers, and appointed the wards of the priests and the Levites, every one in his business;
31. And for the wood offering, at times appointed, and for the firstfruits. Remember me, O my God, for good.

In addition it is Scripture fact that Ezra is contemporary with Nehemiah:

Nehemiah 8:9 KJV
9. And Nehemiah, which is the Tirshatha, and Ezra the priest the scribe, and the Levites that taught the people, said unto all the people, This day is holy unto the Lord your God; mourn not, nor weep. For all the people wept, when they heard the words of the law.

As for what you have stated about ''Antiochus III ending the Aaronic priesthood'' (which at that time was the house of Onias) please provide quotes with links to your sources. And if you change your mind now and say that it was Antiochus IV then the Scripture posted in my opening post above in this thread STILL proves your hypothesis incorrect. Perhaps you should stop making bold historical statements not based in fact.

 

[precepts]

You're deceiving yourself, Josephus is definately not a reliable source being a traitor and a reciever of the "name of the Beast."

daq's quote:
If you had any idea what this does to the modern dispensationalist chronologies, which they use to support a false interpretation of the 70 Weeks of Daniel 9, this information should be invaluable to you.

Like I said before, you're decieving yourself. You have limited knowledge of history, and limited knowledge of scriptural facts and contradictions. Here's a nugget:

Jos 19:51 These [are] the inheritances, which Eleazar the priest, and Joshua the son of Nun, and the heads of the fathers of the tribes of the children of Israel, divided for an inheritance by lot in Shiloh before the LORD, at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. So they made an end of dividing the country.

Shiloh is Mt. Ephraim! Eleazar, the son of Aaron, is in Mt. Ephraim in the land of Israel post the Exodus.

daq's quote:
In addition it is Scripture fact that Ezra is contemporary with Nehemiah:

Who was ruling Seleucia during the time of Nehemiah, what year was the temple completed, and what year were the walls rebuilt in the troublous times mentioned in the 70wks prophecy?

daq's quote:
As for what you have stated about ''Antiochus III ending the Aaronic priesthood'' (which at that time was the house of Onias)

Since when was there any house of anyone in the Aaronic/Zadok line of priests? It's common knowledge that the high priests during and post the Maccabes were not the descendant's of Aaron:

Wikipedia's quote on Onias III:
Onias III (Hebrew: חוֹנִיּוֹ‎ Ḥōniyy&#333 was a Jewish High Priest, the son of Simon II. He is described as a pious man who, unlike the Hellenizers, fought for Judaism.Seleucus Philopator defrayed all the expenses connected with the sanctuary and was friendly to the Jews. According to 2 Maccabees, a traitorous official of the Temple, however, Simon the Benjamite, induced the king, through his official Heliodorus, to undertake the plunder of the Temple treasury; the attempt was not successful, and the Syrian court never forgave the high priest for its miscarriage. When Antiochus IV Epiphanes became king, Onias was obliged to yield to his own brother Jason. According to Josephus, Jason became high priest after the death of Onias, the latter's son, who bore the same name, being then a minor. It is strange that both father and son should have been named Onias, and still more strange is the statement of Josephus that the high priest who succeeded Jason and was the brother of Onias and Jason, likewise was called Onias, and did not assume the name of Menelaus until later; for according to this statement there must have been two brothers of the same name.
While this confusion may be due to the Greek transcription of the related Hebrew names Johanan, Honiyya, and Nehonya, the account of Josephus appears wholly unreliable for this very reason. According to II Macc. iv. 26, Menelaus was not an Aaronite, but a brother of the Simon mentioned above, and hence a Benjaminite......

Which was my original point eventhough the Wikipedia story has been change to more fit Josephus' account implying Onias was the high priest during Antochus' reign. The sources I read implied Antiochus III giving the office to a hellenized Levite who in turn made the outer court into a gym as a political favor for his election since most of the Ewes favored hellenization. What I read was more like Wikipedia's 1st paragraph, there was no attempt to connect the documented priests with scripture, but with a hellenized population. Wikipedia had no clue back then that the knowledge missing pre Antiochus IV were relevant to the Aaronic priesthood.

daq's quote:
please provide quotes with links to your sources.

Like I said before, I don't know If I will ever find the sources I read, but Wikipedia has sure changed their point of view on the subject since I last visited.

daq's quote:
And if you change your mind now and say that it was Antiochus IV then the Scripture posted in my opening post above in this thread STILL proves your hypothesis incorrect.

You haven't proven anything other than Josephus' attempt to connect scripture with history that contradicts the Maccabean account of the high priests not being Aaronites. That's the fact!

daq's quote:
Perhaps you should stop making bold historical statements not based in fact.

Such as? You definately need to study more scripture to understand that the scriptures aren't all factual. If the Levites could be written out of scripture and history, then anything else is possible, including Josephus' fairy tale.

I've noticed you didn't address the fact about Josephus aquiring his sirname!

 

[Interplanner]

Hey guys, pretty hard to get interested in an issue that is not raised in any apostolic materials that spell out the historic Gospel: Rom1-5, Eph 2-3, Gal 3-4, 2 Cor 3-5, Hebrews...

Would to God you had the passion of the apostles for the redemptive grace in the Gospel and the mission to take it around.

--Inter

 

[daq]

Hey guys, pretty hard to get interested in an issue that is not raised in any apostolic materials that spell out the historic Gospel: Rom1-5, Eph 2-3, Gal 3-4, 2 Cor 3-5, Hebrews...

Would to God you had the passion of the apostles for the redemptive grace in the Gospel and the mission to take it around.

--Inter

If there is a priesthood running through the entire Scripture record, from ''Melchizedek the King of Salem'' in Genesis on through to the ''kingdom of priests'' written of more than once in the Revelation of Yeshua: If there is a Covenant of Peace given to the sons of Eleazar which includes the Zadok priesthood, which was already quoted on the previous page: and if this is an everlasting priesthood as also quoted from the book of Numbers on the previous page: and if this priesthood has The Eternal High Priest as its Prince and Head, who is himself the Prince of Peace, Yeshua Christou, the New Mediator of the Covenant and High Priest according to the order of Melchizedek, who lives evermore to make intercession on behalf of the faithful: and if one does not know these things, understand these things, or even care to know about these things, THEN HOW ON EARTH CAN THE SAME ONE CLAIM TO HAVE HIS GOSPEL?

 

[precepts]

Hey guys, pretty hard to get interested in an issue that is not raised in any apostolic materials that spell out the historic Gospel: Rom1-5, Eph 2-3, Gal 3-4, 2 Cor 3-5, Hebrews...

Would to God you had the passion of the apostles for the redemptive grace in the Gospel and the mission to take it around.

--Inter

The truth is an offense to some, but never a sin.

True doctrine is obviously not your concern, friend.

daq's quote:
If there is a priesthood running through the entire Scripture record, from ''Melchizedek the King of Salem'' in Genesis on through to the ''kingdom of priests'' written of more than once in the Revelation of Yeshua: If there is a Covenant of Peace given to the sons of Eleazar which includes the Zadok priesthood, which was already quoted on the previous page: and if this is an everlasting priesthood as also quoted from the book of Numbers on the previous page: and if this priesthood has The Eternal High Priest as its Prince and Head, who is himself the Prince of Peace, Yeshua Christou, the New Mediator of the Covenant and High Priest according to the order of Melchizedek, who lives evermore to make intercession on behalf of the faithful: and if one does not know these things, understand these things, or even care to know about these things, THEN HOW ON EARTH CAN THE SAME ONE CLAIM TO HAVE HIS GOSPEL?

Like I said, the truth is an offense to some, but why didn't you answer any of my questions?

 

[GenevieveM]

Once again, while doing my usual shabath reading, I came across these interesting verses on the "oblation" and the "sanctuary" that must be relevant to Daniel's 70wks prophecy.

I always thought the oblation was offerings made in the Temple.

Now we know from your post that the "oblation" refers to the LAND for the Temple!

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

This is just another confirmation that the abomination of desolation refers to the Roman army and their confiscation of the land.

Their presence on the "oblation", the holy land and in the Temple, was the abomination that led to the desolation of Israel.

Matt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

 

[precepts]

I always thought the oblation was offerings made in the Temple.

Now we know from your post that the "oblation" refers to the LAND for the Temple!

Why are you adding to scripture?!

This is just another confirmation that the abomination of desolation refers to the Roman army and their confiscation of the land.

Try rereading the thread.

Their presence on the "oblation", the holy land and in the Temple, was the abomination that led to the desolation of Israel.

Matt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

Gemevieve 23:12-16, descration of the sacred text!

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Which according to the thread was who?

The truth is an offense to some but never a sin!!



KRS1
Keeper of Records and Seals

 

[daq]

Why are you adding to scripture?!




Try rereading the thread.



Gemevieve 23:12-16, descration of the sacred text!



Which according to the thread was who?

The truth is an offense to some but never a sin!!



KRS1
Keeper of Records and Seals

Funny how everyone but you is ''desecrating the sacred text'' …

Yeshua tells us what is the abomination of desolation by the fact that the word for abomination (bdelugma) is found ONLY three times in the four Gospel accounts:

Matthew 24:15
15. When ye therefore shall see the bdelugma of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

Mark 13:14
14. But when ye shall see the bdelugma of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Luke 16:14-15
14. And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
15. And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is bdelugma in the sight of God.

The same Greek word ''bdelugma'' does not occur again until the Book of the Revelation of Yeshua. And, since Matthew and Mark both quote the same statement from the Olivet Discourse, Yeshua then only uses the word, (or possibly its Aramaic equivalent) on two separate and distinct occasions. Luke 16:15 is the second occasion and it interprets what the Master intended in quoting Daniel in the first occasion during the Olivet Discourse. The man is made up of both 'erets-land and 'adamah-earth-soil. The 'erets-land is typology of the outer bounds-commons-profane area of the temple body-flesh. The 'adamah-soil and ''ha-Tsebiy''-''Beautiful Land'' is the soil of the heart, as in the Parable of the Sower, from which dust of the 'adamah the first man-Adam was taken in the beginning.

 

[daq]

Daniel 11:41-45
41. He shall enter into the 'Erets ha-Tsebiy, and many shall be cast down: but these are malat-birthed from his power-hand; even Edom, and Moab, and the chief [crowned] of the sons of Ammon.
42. He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the 'erets-lands: and the 'erets-land of Mitsrayim-Egypt shall not escape.
43. But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.
44. But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly seal-decide the fate of many.
45. And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the har-Tsebiy holy-qodesh; yet he shall come to his end, and there is nothing to help him.

2 Samuel 1:17-19
17. And David lamented with this lamentation over Saul and over Jonathan his son:
18. Also he bade them teach the children of Judah the use of the bow: behold, it is written in the book of Yasher.
19. Ha-Tsebiy of Israel is slain upon thy high places: how are the mighty fallen!

The Daniel 11 final ''king'' is not the genos-kind you will see with the eyes of the flesh ...

 

[GenevieveM]

Why are you adding to scripture?!




Try rereading the thread.



Gemevieve 23:12-16, descration of the sacred text!



Which according to the thread was who?

The truth is an offense to some but never a sin!!



KRS1
Keeper of Records and Seals

huh? You are the one who pointed out that "oblation" refers to "land" in Ezekiel.

 

[precepts]

Funny how everyone but you is ''desecrating the sacred text'' …

Yeshua tells us what is the abomination of desolation by the fact that the word for abomination (bdelugma) is found ONLY three times in the four Gospel accounts:

Matthew 24:15
15. When ye therefore shall see the bdelugma of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

Mark 13:14
14. But when ye shall see the bdelugma of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Luke 16:14-15
14. And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
15. And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is bdelugma in the sight of God.

The same Greek word ''bdelugma'' does not occur again until the Book of the Revelation of Yeshua. And, since Matthew and Mark both quote the same statement from the Olivet Discourse, Yeshua then only uses the word, (or possibly its Aramaic equivalent) on two separate and distinct occasions. Luke 16:15 is the second occasion and it interprets what the Master intended in quoting Daniel in the first occasion during the Olivet Discourse. The man is made up of both 'erets-land and 'adamah-earth-soil. The 'erets-land is typology of the outer bounds-commons-profane area of the temple body-flesh. The 'adamah-soil and ''ha-Tsebiy''-''Beautiful Land'' is the soil of the heart, as in the Parable of the Sower, from which dust of the 'adamah the first man-Adam was taken in the beginning.

So what's the word used in Daniel for abomination?

Daniel 11:41-45
41. He shall enter into the 'Erets ha-Tsebiy, and many shall be cast down: but these are malat-birthed from his power-hand; even Edom, and Moab, and the chief [crowned] of the sons of Ammon.

42. He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the 'erets-lands: and the 'erets-land of Mitsrayim-Egypt shall not escape.
43. But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.
44. But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly seal-decide the fate of many.
45. And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the har-Tsebiy holy-qodesh; yet he shall come to his end, and there is nothing to help him.

2 Samuel 1:17-19
17. And David lamented with this lamentation over Saul and over Jonathan his son:
18. Also he bade them teach the children of Judah the use of the bow: behold, it is written in the book of Yasher.
19. Ha-Tsebiy of Israel is slain upon thy high places: how are the mighty fallen!

The Daniel 11 final ''king'' is not the genos-kind you will see with the eyes of the flesh ...

I quess you're purposely making no sense.

 

[precepts]

huh? You are the one who pointed out that "oblation" refers to "land" in Ezekiel.

Why didn't you answer my questions?!