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Interesting Study on the State of the Dead.

Discussion in 'Traditional Adventists' started by reddogs, Oct 28, 2007.

  1. reddogs

    reddogs Contributor Supporter

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    "Through the two great errors, the immortality of the soul and Sunday sacredness, Satan will bring the people under his deceptions" Great Controversy p. 588.

    "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord” Isaiah 1:18. If there was ever a man that deserved to go strait to heaven at the point of death it was Jesus Christ! Yet on resurrection morning Jesus said to Mary Magdela, "Touch Me not, for I am not yet ascended to My Father” John 20:17. The Son of God who is our example in all things died, was buried, and then after He was resurrected went to heaven. So it is with the Christians.

    Death
    Burial
    Resurrection
    Then go to heaven


    The Apostle Peter who was filled with the Holy Spirit spoke concerning King David; word’s to clear to misunderstand. "Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the Patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried and his sepulcher is with us to this day" Acts 2:29. For David is NOT ascended into the heavens.

    The dead Christians are not ascended into heaven praising God on the streets of gold. "The dead praise not the Lord" Psalms 115:17. According to the prophet David, "In death there is no remembrance of Thee” Psalms 6:5. In fact, the dead have no thoughts or feelings either good or bad while in the grave. "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing... Also their love and their hatred, and their envy is now perished” Ecclesiastes 9:5,6. "His breath goeth forth he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish" Psalms 146:4.

    The dead do not communicate with the living! In fact the dead cannot haunt houses either! "He that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more, he shall return no more to his house, neither shall his place know him anymore,” Job 7:9,10. The fact that all such apparitions are not the dead is the clear teach. Yet thousands of genuine apparitions appear every month around the globe. What are these? All such apparitions of dead loved ones are demons come to gather the world for the battle of Armageddon.

    “There is a strong inclination among Catholics who feel constrained to admit the genuineness of spirit-messages to assert that these are produced by the agency of the devil; that the message does not come from any departed friend, but from an evil spirit personating him. We know that Satan is capable of transforming himself into “an angel of light,” and he is presumably capable of transforming himself into the likeness of my Uncle John, of mimicking his voice and of reproducing his handwriting. If it be objected that the message contains high and lofty and even Christian sentiments, it may be replied that the evil spirit is deliberately adopting this role in order to deceive us and lead us on so as to ruin our souls.” Donald Hole, Spiritualism and the Church 1929, pp. 65–67.

    Satan used a demon-possessed witch to bring up a familiar spirit that looked and sounded just like the prophet Samuel to bring about the destruction of King Saul (1 Samuel 28). Now in these last days, Satan is using apparitions of dead saints to deceive the world for its destruction. Do not be deceived the Bible says, "Neither have they any portion under the sun" Ecclesiastes 9:6. The Bible says, "the just shall live by his faith" not by what he sees and hears. We cannot depend on our five senses to understand what is truth, rather only in the Word of God! The Word of God condemns all who attempt to contact the dead. For it is in fact communication with devils

    “The Catholic Church would not forbid her children to have anything at all to do with this insidious form of necromancy unless she was satisfied that harm only and no good comes out of it. Her experience of Spiritualism covers nearly two thousand years, and she seems to regard it, not as a means of getting into communion with saints, but as a snare trapping you into communion with devils…” Bernard Vaughan, Foreword, in Elliot O’Donnell, The Menace of Spiritualism (London: T. Werner Laurie, [1920]), pp. 1–3.


    “The Romans at first buried their dead in family catacombs, which were excavated outside the city walls and protected by law, but later Romans preferred cremation. The Christians continued the practice of interring the dead in Catacombs, which they called koimetaria, or “sleeping places,” to suggest, that for a Christian, death was merely sleep before resurrection.” Funk and Wagnall’s Encyclopedia, Article on, Catacombs.

    At death man is asleep in the grave not knowing anything nor having any thoughts until the resurrection. There to awake to either everlasting life, of everlasting destruction. "The hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." John 5:28,29. The Bible refers to death as a sleep 66 times. Clearly this is what happens at death! Christians "Sleep in Jesus” Thessalonians 4:14. "Consider and hear, O LORD my God: lighten my eyes, LEST I SLEEP THE SLEEP OF DEATH" Psalm 13:3

    Deut. 31:16__"Thou (Moses) shall sleep with thy fathers"
    Sam. 7:12__"Thou (David) shalt sleep with thy fathers"
    Kings 1:21__ "The king shall sleep with his fathers"
    Kings 2:10__ "So David slept with His fathers"
    Job 3_13__ "I should have slept"
    Job 7:21__ "Now shall I sleep"
    Psalm 76:5__ "They have slept their sleep"
    Jer. 51:39__ "And sleep a perpetual sleep."
    Daniel 12:2__ "Them that sleep in the dust."
    Matthew 9:24__ "Is not dead, but sleepeth."
    I Cor. 15:6__ "some are fallen asleep"
    I Cor. 15:51__ "we shall not all sleep"
    Thess. 4:13 "concerning them which are asleep"
    II Peter 3:4 "Since the fathers fell asleep"
    John 11:11,14__ "He saith unto them, our friend Lazarus sleepeth... Then Jesus spake unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead."


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    Last edited: Aug 26, 2017
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  2. reddogs

    reddogs Contributor Supporter

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    When a living breathing creature (a soul) ceases to breath he is asleep, he is "dead and buried, and his sepulcher is with us unto this day, and is not ascended into the heavens” Acts 2:29,34. They "do not remember God." Psalms 6:5 "The dead do not praise the Lord." Psalms 115:17 "Their thoughts have perished." Psalms 146:4 "The dead know not any thing." Ecclesiastes 9:5. The dead never do anything on the earth any more, and never return to their house again Job 7:9-11. Everything you just read is quoted from the Word of God.


    Satan tempted Jesus in the wilderness by quoting the Word of God (Matthew 4:1_ 11). This demon appeared to the witch of Endor in the form of the prophet Samuel, wearing clothes like this saint and speaking a message in the name of the Lord. Today demons are coming in the form of our dead loved ones and even as the Virgin Mary or as other saints!

    "He (Satan) has power to bring before men the appearance of their departed friend’s. The counterfeit is perfect; the familiar look, the words, the tone, are reproduced with marvelous distinctness." "The spirits of devils personating beloved relatives or friends and declaring the most dangerous heresies will confront many. These visitants will appeal to our tender’s sympathies and will work miracles to sustain their pretensions. We must be prepared to withstand them with the Bible Truth that the dead know not anything and that they who thus appear are the spirits of devils.” The Great Controversy pp. 552,560.

    The last thought at death to the first thought at the resurrection will seem like less than a second of time. "Behold I shew you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment in a twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed” 1 Corinthians 15:51,52. It was at the last trump of the Second Coming that the dead were resurrected!

    "For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." 1 Thessalonians 4:13_18.

    EVERY TIME SOUL IS FOUND IN THE BIBLE IT MEANS LITERALLY A LIVING BREATHING CREATURE! Let us look at the true Hebrew idea of the soul from scripture.

    When man had been created from the dust, what did he become? “And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.” Genesis 2:7.

    To what other order of beings is the term soul applied? “And levy a tribute unto the LORD of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, [both] of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep.” Numbers 31:28.

    Is the term living soul applied to anything besides man and beast? “And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead [man]; and every living soul died in the sea.” Revelation 16:3

    Can a soul suffer thirst? “As cold waters to a thirsty soul, so is good news from a far country.” Proverbs 25:25.

    May it also suffer hunger? “Slothfulness casteth into a deep sleep; and an idle soul shall suffer hunger.” Proverbs 19:15.

    Is a soul capable of eating? “But the soul that eateth of the flesh of the sacrifice of peace offerings, that pertain unto the LORD, having his uncleanness upon him, even that soul shall be cut off from his people.” Leviticus 7:20.

    Can a soul be injured? “And they smote all the souls that were therein with the edge of the sword, utterly destroying them: there was not any left to breathe: and he burnt Hazor with fire.” Joshua 11:11.

    Can a soul die? “Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.” Ezekiel 18:4.

    What is the prophecy say about the soul of Christ? “Therefore will I divide him [a portion] with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.” Isaiah 53:12

    What happens to the soul at death? Where does the soul go? “What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave?”

    Because Christ “hath poured out his soul unto death.” is His soul dead now? “He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell (hades), neither his flesh did see corruption.” Acts 2:31. “Hell” or hades here used is translated as “grave” in this verse, “O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?” 1 Corinthians 15:55.

    The second coming forever conquers death and hell (the grave) for the righteous but what happens to death and hell for the wicked when they are cast into the Lake of Fire? “And death and hell (hades = grave) were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

    Brothers and sisters we are going to see quite clearly today that through Greek mythology just like in the days of the Christ’s first advent our understanding has been confused about these very easy to understand teachings of scripture. The Greek view of hades and the soul are the views believed by hundreds of millions today in Christianity.

    Let us look at the definition of the soul. IT IS THE SAME DEFINITION EVERY TIME THE WORD SOUL IS USED IN THE BIBLE BOTH OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS. The Greek word for soul says in Strong’s Concordance “terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315],” which is Nephesh. Lets look at it below.


    nephesh
    neh'-fesh
    From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.

    Genesis 2:7 says at the creation of man that he “became a ling soul.” Man was given the breath of life therefore he became a BREATHING CREATURE! This is why the Bible can refer to beasts as souls, and the whales and other oxegon breathing sea life as souls. God never entended for anything He gave breath to ever stop breathing. Because of sin man and all sinful creatures must cease to breath. God united the body and breath and this equaled a soul. The body is the creature or creation. The Breath of life is the spirit or breath in his nostrils or in some sea life gills. “All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils.” Job 27:3. At the point the spirit or breath leaves the soul = breathing creature it stops breathing. This is called death. “The body without the spirit is dead.” James 2:26. Let us look again at this passage of scripture.

    “And they smote all the souls that were therein with the edge of the sword, utterly destroying them: THERE WAS NOT ANY LEFT TO BREATHE: and he burnt Hazor with fire.” Joshua 11:11.

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  3. reddogs

    reddogs Contributor Supporter

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    Today you have learned the truth about the dead. Through faith, "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" from "doctrines of devil's" "that we be hence forth no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine" John 8:32; Timothy 4:1; Ephesians 4:14.

    The deceptions of spiritualism are going to deceive if possible even the very elect. Yet for the elect I find an even more important reason for accepting the truth about the state of the dead. It is a matter of salvation. We are commanded to die indeed unto sin. Sin begins with the desire. Sinful thoughts are cherished sinful feelings idolized. The imaginations run their current. These thoughts and feelings are what produce sinful words and actions the deeds in which we will be judged for. We learned today in this article that the dead have no thoughts or feelings either good or bad while in the grave. "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing... Also their love and their hatred, and their envy is now perished” Ecclesiastes 9:5,6. "His breath goeth forth he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish" Psalms 146:4. ...."


    Through the victory of Jesus Christ, the death on the cross We can truly die to sinful feelings and truly die to sinful thoughts and imaginations. Unless we have a true conception from he Word of God about what happens at death we can not have this perfect victory over every sin in our lives. Remember the song, “Onward Christian soldiers marching as to war, with the Cross of Jesus marching on before.” Claiming the blood of Jesus that bleed and the life that was laid down by the Savior in a death for all mankind, we all have the weapons to overcome every thought and imagination and desire for sin. Because Jesus truly died. From His death on the cross until He was resurrected He experienced no thoughts and no feelings, no memory, no knowledge. Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed in His Gift to this world.

    “For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;” 2 Corinthians 10:3-5.

    For those who reject the Bible truth of the Godhead consisting of Three Holy persons, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, it is hard to understand the complete death of Jesus. They will surely ask, How can God completely die. Dear brother and dear sister, God the Son completely died, God the Father and God the Holy Spirit both divine Persons who in them selves are self-existent, never died, however the heart of these two beings equally broke when Jesus heart broke and He gave up the ghost (the power to breath). The Father loved you so much that He gave His only begotten Son, He watched His Son suffer and die for you. The Father experienced the grief of His Sons broken heart while thinking of you personally. He was separated from the loving thoughts and feelings of His Son, and for the first time in all eternity was completely separated from His Son all for you and I. His love is beyond our conception. I am not able in this article to explore and expand in a scripture by scripture study of the Holy Godhead.

    Part II The Witch of Endor

    Saul Rejected
    "And the Lord said unto Moses... I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven" Exodus 17:14. In the days of King Saul, the Prophet Samuel gave the King orders to fulfill this prophecy. "Samuel also said unto Saul, “The Lord sent to anoint thee to be King over His people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of the Lord. Thus saith the Lord of Hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.

    “Now go up and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass" 1 Samuel 15:1-3.

    "The Amalekites had been the first to make war upon Israel, in the wilderness; and for this sin, together with their defiance of God and their debasing idolatry, the Lord, Through Moses had pronounced sentence upon them. "Thou shalt blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heave; thou shalt not forget it" Deuteronomy 25:19. For four hundred years the execution of this sentence had been deferred; but the Amalekites had not turned from their sins. The Lord knew that this wicked people would, if it were possible, blot out His people, and His worship from the earth. Now the time had come for the sentence, so long delayed to be executed" Patriarchs and Prophets p. 627.

    In Samuel 15 Saul disobeyed God by refusing to fulfill this prophecy. He disobeyed a Commandment of God! Saul decided as Cane to offer a sacrifice to. A sacrifice that violated a Commandment of God. Today Protestants, like Cane & King Saul offer a day of worship that dishonors God's Ten Commandments. Honoring a day that God's Holy Word never does sanction for such worship. Saul offered a sacrifice that was offensive to God. "The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination" Proverbs 15:8. Honoring the Papal Sabbath is also offensive because it honors ancient sun worship “Rah” the Egyptians “Baal” of the Caananites, and “Mythra” of the Greeks and Romans, all of which were Israels and Jehovah’s arch enemies, and bitterest persecutor’s. Most of God’s children are ignorantly doing so. Yet the Word says my sheep hear My vioce and will follow Me. God's word clearly says to "Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: But THE SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH, in it thou shalt not do any work." Exodus 20:8-10.

    “Mythra” the name of the Greek sun god means “lord” the pagans were calling Sunday the “lords day” long before John referred to the Sabbath as “the Lord’s day” in Revelation 1:10. Brothers and sisters forgive me if I am speaking to plainly, but Sunday is not the Lord’s day; rather it is the Popes day. “"Protestants accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship after the Catholic Church made the change. But the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that in observing the Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the church, the Pope." Our Sunday Visitor February 5, 1950.

    “And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws” Daniel 7:25

    "The Pope has power to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ." Decretal De Translat. Episcop. Cap.

    "It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe the commandment of the Catholic Church." Priest Brady, in an address, reported in “The Elizabeth, New Jersey News" of March 18, 1903

    "Sunday is a Catholic institution, and its claims to observance can be defended only on Catholic principles...From beginning to the end of the scripture there is not a single passage that warrants the transfer of weekly public worship from the last day of the week, to the first." Catholic Press, Sydney, Australia, August 1900.

    "The OBSERVANCE of SUNDAY by the Protestants is an HOMAGE THEY PAY in spite of themselves to the AUTHORITY OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH." Plain Talk for Protestants, p. 213.

    "Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change was her act. And the act is a MARK of her ecclesiastical AUTHORITY in religious things." H.F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons.

    "Protestantism, in disregarding the authority of the (Roman Catholic) Church, has no good reasons for its Sunday theory, and ought logically to keep Saturday as the Sabbath." American Catholic Quarterly Review, January 1883.

    "Reason and since demand the acceptance of one or the other of these alternatives; either Protestantism and the keeping holy of Saturday or Catholicity and the keeping holy of Sunday. Compromise is impossible." Cardinal Gibbons, The Catholic Mirror December 23, 1893.

    The Lord said, "spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass." But Saul and the people spared Agag, and the best of the sheep, and of the oxen" "Saul said,...I have performed the Commandment of Lord. And Samuel said, what meaneth then this bleating of the sheep in my ears, and the lowing of the oxen which I hear? Then Saul said, they have brought them from the Amalekites: for the people spared the best of the sheep and of the oxen, to sacrifice unto the Lord thy God; and the rest we have utterly destroyed" 1 Samuel 15:13-15. American Protestants say, "I have performed the Commandment of the Lord." Honoring the Papal Sabbath, Sunday "to sacrifice unto the Lord thy God" a day which God never commanded to be kept. Today I ask, "what meaneth then this violating of the Seventh Day Sabbath?"

    And Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams." 1 Samuel 15:22. “And God spake all these things saying...Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy... the Seventh Day is the Sabbath" Exodus 20:1,8. "The word of our God shall stand forever." "The word of the Lord endureth forever" Isaiah 40:8; 1 Peter 1:25. "Blessed are they that hear the Word of God, and keep it" Luke 11:28. "But be ye doers of the Word, and not hearers only, your own selves" James 1:22. “The scripture cannot be broken.” John 10:35.

    "For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and. Because thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, he hath also rejected thee from being King... As Samuel turned to go away, he laid hold upon the skirt of his mantle, and it rent. And Samuel said unto him, the Lord hath rent the Kingdom of Israel from thee this day” 1 Samuel 15:23:27,28. Rebellion and stubbornness against obeying the word of God will just as surely lead to Christ saying, "Depart from me I never knew you, ye that work iniquity (lawlessness)" Matthew 7:23. Just as surely as it did for King Saul. How do we make sure we know Jesus? “And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.” 1 John 2:3-6

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  4. reddogs

    reddogs Contributor Supporter

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    The Witch of Endor
    "And it came to pass in those days, that the Philistines gathered their armies together for warfare, to fight with Israel. Now Samuel was dead and all Israel lamented him, and buried him in Ramah, even in his own city. And Saul had put away those who had familiar spirits, and the wizards out of the land. And when Saul saw the host of the Philistines, he was afraid, and his heart greatly trembled. And when the Saul inquired of the Lord, THE LORD ANSWERED HIM NOT, NEITHER BY DREAMS, NOR BY URIM, NOR BY PROPHETS. Then said Saul unto his servants, seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her. And His servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor." Samuel 28:1,3,5-7.

    "The witch of Endor had made an agreement with Satan to follow his directions in all things; and he would perform wonders and miracles for her, and would reveal to the most secret things, if she would yield herself unreservedly to be controlled by his Satanic majesty" Spirit of Prophecy Vol. pp. 375,376. Then said the woman, whom shall I bring-up unto thee? And he said bring me up Samuel... And the woman said unto Saul, I saw god's ascending out of the earth. And said unto her what form is he of? And she said, an old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle"

    Point # 1. The witch did not claim to bring Samuel down from Heaven, yea rather, “out of the earth."
    Point # 2. "The Lord answered him not, neither ... by prophets" This was NOT the prophet Samuel!
    Point # 3. The Lord would never answer through a demon-possessed witch!
    Point # 4. A familiar spirit is a demon.
    Point # 5. Demon's can look like, sound like, and even dress like the dead.
    Point # 6. Saul never saw Samuel; He only heard what the demon possessed witch told him.
    Point # 7. DEMON'S CAN IMPERSONATE DEAD SAINTS! "And no marvel, for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers are transformed into ministers of righteousness" 2 Corinthians 11:14,15.
    Point # 8. This demon apparition was sent for the destruction of Saul. The next day he died.
    Point # 9, The witch was kind and generous toward Saul; a wolf in sheep's clothing. Samuel 28:22) And when they shall say unto you, seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizard's that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? From the living to the dead? TO THE LAW AND TO THE TESTIMONY: IF THEY NOT ACCORDING TO THIS WORD, IT IS BECAUSE THERE IS NO LIGHT IN THEM" Isaiah 8:19,20. SEEKING GOD THROUGH ANYONE THAT HAS DIED IS NOT ACCORDING TO THE LAW OF GOD OR HIS WORD: THERE IS NO LIGHT GIVEN TO THIS WORLD THROUGH ANYONE THAT IS DEAD! NOT THROUGH SAMUEL AND NOT THROUGH THE VIRGIN MARY EITHER! GOD DOES NOT GIVE LIGHT THROUGH THE DEAD.

    The Apostle Paul lists "witchcraft" as one of the “works of the flesh" he says, "they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God" Galatians 5:19,20. "Be not deceived God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to the flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption" Galatians 6:9. The Apostle John says "sorcerers... shall have their part in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone" Revelation 21:8. "Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee. Behold, they (the horoscope readers) shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they not deliver themselves from the power of flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it." Isaiah 47:13,14. The Bible condemns Witchcraft, both black and "white", sorcery, horoscopes, oiji board's, séances, the 1-900- psychics taro cards, magicians, reincarnation- past life existence, praying to the dead- including the saints"; the Bible condemns all of this as evil. God's Word clearly says these will lead to the destruction of the lake of fire.

    Divination, obtaining secret knowledge, especially of the future, a pagan counterfeit of prophecy.
    Magicians, workers of wonders and miracles.
    Necromancy, séances, consulting the dead.
    Soothsayer, Pagan counterfeit of prophecy, forecaster of future events.
    Sorcery, the occult.
    Witchcraft, Satanic possession, which would work wonders and miracles through the individual.
    Enchanter, A magician, one who uses tricks and slight of hand to impress or deceive.

    "Thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations, There shall not be found among you any...that useth divination, or an observer of times (horoscopes), or an enchanter, or a witch, or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord. And because of these abomination the Lord thy God doth drive them out before thee. Thou shalt be perfect with the Lord thy God. For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times (horoscopes), and unto diviners (psychics), but as for thee the Lord thy God hath not suffered thee so to do. The Lord thy God will raise up unto the Prophet (Jesus Christ)... unto Him shall ye hearken. I will raise up unto thee a Prophet (Jesus Christ)... and will put my words into his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto My word's which He shall speak n My name, I will require it of him" Deuteronomy 18:9-15,18,19. "For He whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto Him. The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into His hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him" John 3:34-36. "He that beleiveth my word, and beleiveth on Him that sent me hath everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." John 5:24.

    Part III Spirits in Prison

    Many believe that at the moment Jesus died he went to minister to the dead “spirits in prison” to preach to them the gospel that He had just died for the sins of the world. The various Protestant churches are not alone in taking this position. The Roman Catholic catechism teaches this. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints otherwise known as the “Mormons” also believe this teaching. Today there are many conscientious Christians questioning whether this teaching is true and are taking a closer look into 1 Peter 3:19. In this article clear evidence from scripture is presented to bring to light the truth about this doctrine.

    “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.” 1 Peter 3:18-22.

    At the beginning of His ministry Jesus quoted this Old Testament scripture. “The spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound.” Isaiah 61:1. Indeed God sent his Son to proclaim liberty to those in prison. “I have raised Him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city (New Jerusalem John 14:1-3), and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.” Isaiah 45:13. When Jesus went to the right hand of God He broke the power of every bondage. “Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive,” Ephesians 4:8.

    We will ask Jesus, LORD tell us, who is in bondage today? “Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. The servant abideth not in the house forever: but the Son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.” John 8:32-36.

    What about Paul, Sir, who is in bondage right now? “Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?” Romans 6:16. I see, thank you Paul. So every one is in bondage to SIN until they choose to serve Jesus Christ as Lord by rendering obedience to the truth. Choosing to sin or by not choosing to obey truth places the will under bondage to demonic forces. Jesus came “To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins,” Acts 26:18.

    Remember that captivity, bondage or prison is connected to serving sin. Are the dead now serving sin? Are the dead now in prison? No! “For he that is dead is freed from sin.” Romans 6:7. The dead are not in prison, they are free. They are asleep and have no knowledge either good or bad (Ecclesiastes 9:5). Though condemned at this moment even the vilest of sinners is at rest from sin. He is asleep in the grave. At the close of time when the wicked are brought before the judgment bar of God they will be utterly destroyed by fire, which is the second death. Jesus came to set the captives free. In the end all men are set free from the bondage of sin. The righteous with eternal life. The wicked with eternal death. Yet all men are “freed from sin.”

    The context to Peter’s words is clearly that these spirits in prison are the people who lived just before the flood. Peter said that Jesus had died and that he was, “quickened (resurrected) by the Spirit: By which (the Holy Spirit) also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison.” It was by the Holy Spirit that Jesus preached unto these men. “And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.” Genesis 6:3. It is the testimony of scripture that the Holy Spirit strove with these men during the final 120 years just before the flood.

    Was the gospel of the death of Jesus Christ for the sins of the world preached during this time? Absolutely, for a certainty it was. Jesus was “the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.” John 1:29. All the patriarchs in the Old Testament built altars and sacrificed the burnt offering of a lamb. They did this because they believed that the Messiah would one day offer Himself as a sacrifice for the sins of the world. Abel’s sacrifice was accepted because it was a symbol of the Lamb of God, Cane’s offering was not accepted because it was an offering of his own works. Before the flood, men had knowledge of Christ the “seed” that would come through the woman (Genesis 3:15). Later this promise was made to Abraham that Christ would come through his seed. “In thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.” Genesis 22:18. “Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.” Galatians 3:16.

    (Page Four)
     
  5. reddogs

    reddogs Contributor Supporter

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    By faith Abraham built his altar and offered a lamb every place he went. He understood that God would one day give His only begotten Son to be the Lamb of God after God said, “Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.” Genesis 22:2. Noah understood the gospel that Christ would die for the sins of the world as the Lamb of God. “And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.” The sacrifices of bullocks and sheep did not begin with Moses and the people of Israel. It began at the Garden of Eden. God sacrificed a lamb before Adam and Eve, and “God make coats of skins, and clothed them.” Genesis 3:21. For Jesus is “the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” Revelation 13:8.

    Let us remember that “spirits in prison” is referring to a time when these men were alive. The dead are not now in bondage to sin because, “he that is dead is freed from sin.” These men heard the gospel about the coming Messiah who would die as the Lamb of God for the sins of the world through the preaching of Noah. Yes, Noah was a preacher. The LORD “saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness.” 2 Peter 2:5. The Holy Spirit preached the gospel unto the antediluvians through Noah. “Holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.” Noah was a “preacher of righteousness.” He preached Christ! “But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference.” Romans 3:21,22.

    John Wesley, founder of the Methodist Church, about four hundred years ago recognized this to be the only true interpretation of 1 Peter 3:19. Notice what he had to say about this scripture. “Verse 19. By which Spirit he preached-Through the ministry of Noah. To the spirits in prison-The unholy men before the flood, who were then reserved by the justice of God, as in a prison, till he executed the sentence upon them all; and are now also reserved to the judgment of the great day.” John Wesley’s Commentary on the Bible.

    For one hundred and twenty years the Holy Spirit strove with the antediluvian people through the righteous preaching of Noah. He had pleaded with men to accept the coming Messiah by faith, and to accept the only plan of salvation by getting inside the ark before it was forever too late. When the door of the ark was shut by the hand of God’s angel the probation of every man outside its walls had forever ended. They had committed the unpardonable sin. They hardened their own heart through persistent sin, and grieved the Holy Spirit. God is longsuffering and will not bring judgment unless all hope for salvation is forever lost. They heard the Word of God through the preaching of Noah. Jesus said that if a person would not listen to the Word of God, “neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.” Luke 16:31. Were Christ to have been raised from His death at the Cross to go preach to these souls it would have been vain. They had already rejected the pleading of the Holy Spirit beseeching them to accept the Lamb of God, and as a sign of faith get inside the Ark.

    Noah told men that the world was going to be destroyed by a flood of water, and that their only hope of salvation was to get inside a massive boat that he was constructing as a direct commandment of God. Today the message to be given is that the world is about to be destroyed by fire at the glorious coming of Jesus. “And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.” 2 Thessalonians 2:8. The only hope of salvation today is not a boat. It is the resurrection of the dead, in which the living and the dead Christians will be changed into incorruptible, and immortality bodies. Peter was not telling us about a mystical spirit ministry at the death of Christ at all. In the context of his statement, it is clearly seen that the whole reason Peter referred to the flood was to tell us that the resurrection is our only hope of Salvation just like the Ark was for the Antediluvians. To demonstrate our faith that Jesus was raised from the dead, and that we believed He also had power to raise us from the dead, we were to be baptized. “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.” Romans 6:3,5.

    “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.” 1 Peter 3:18-22.

    I hope this study has been a blessing to your understanding of these passages. My prayer is that you will give your life to obeying the truth of the Word of God by the power of the Holy Spirit, so that Jesus Christ can make you free indeed from this mortal flesh when He comes in power and great glory. Amen...."Posted by permission of David M. Curtis
    Director/Speaker of The Loud Cry Ministries
    http://www.loudcry.org http://www.loudcry.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=8
     
  6. Jimlarmore

    Jimlarmore Senior Veteran

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    I think you covered all the basis Rojo, good job man.

    God Bless
    Jim Larmore
     
  7. RC_NewProtestants

    RC_NewProtestants Senior Veteran

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    Interesting I wonder what Bible version this person is using I mean there are the quote marks and the verse reference but I don't know of any Bible that includes that last line: "For David is NOT ascended into the heavens"

    It is a sad example of how people bear false witness. Oh the line is there in Acts but it is later and deals with a different statement. But for the unethical and those who merely want their ideas supported and don't care how it is done context often does not matter.

    If you Red and Jim approve of such things I am disappointed in you.
     
  8. Jimlarmore

    Jimlarmore Senior Veteran

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    Let's look at the original language from Acts 2: 29-30 & 34-35.
    "You will fill Me with joy with the face of You , Men brothers it is permitted to say with plainess to you concerning the patriach David that both he died and was buried and the tomb of him is amoung us into the day .
    " This which now you see and hear, Not for David ascended to heavens says but he said the Lord to the Lord of me, Sit at the right of Me until I place the enemies of you a footstool to the feet of you."

    See anything that appears to be a false witness? The verse in Acts 2:29 starts out speaking of David then in verse 34 it says he is not risen to the heavens. I don't understand how the fact that the statement is dealing with a different statement invalidates the fact that it says David has not ascended to the heavens yet. The statement is declarative and stands alone. When someone says that another has born a "false witness" he is implying that a lie or misuse of wording has been made. I reject that has happened here and challenge RC to prove his accusation.

    God Bless
    Jim Larmore
     
  9. RC_NewProtestants

    RC_NewProtestants Senior Veteran

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    I can't believe you defend that. It is amazing. The reference to David not ascending was in reference to him saying the Lord said to my Lord. It is not even part of verse 29 but that is where the author placed it.

    David had obviously not ascended to heaven yet he said;and the quote from psalms is given. So what David said is not about himself, as David died and his tomb is here to this day. So he died his body saw corruption he was not the messiah that was raised from the dead and ascended to heaven.

    Even at the time of David they had little and probably no conception of life after death. The idea of a resurrection or going to be with God is a much later idea. And even those who believe the soul goes to heaven generally say that is only the case after the resurrection of Christ.
     
  10. Jimlarmore

    Jimlarmore Senior Veteran

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    Absolutely nothing you said above refutes the declarative nature of the statement that David has not ascended to the heavens which is the point that is being made. You sir have not proved that any false witness has been made or showed any contextual evidence that this statement was taken out of context and does not mean that David didn't ascend but something else.



    God Bless
    Jim Larmore
     
  11. JonMiller

    JonMiller Senior Veteran

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    The dead being alive in some spiritual sense is ludicrous and I am glad that the Adventist church (mostly) don't beleive in this.

    It is obviously tied to platonic and other ideas that influenced Judaic thought after Alexander the Great. Not that this is needed to consider the idea archaic foolishness.

    It's dangerous besides as it encourages superstition and mysticism.

    JM
     
  12. reddogs

    reddogs Contributor Supporter

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    Did anyone notice the opening quote?

    "Through the two great errors, the immortality of the soul and Sunday sacredness, Satan will bring the people under his deceptions" Great Controversy p. 588.
     
  13. StormyOne

    StormyOne Senior Veteran

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    people believe Sunday is sacred? Define sacred and then show me where... if anything it's going in the other direction....
     
  14. JonMiller

    JonMiller Senior Veteran

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    There are some who beleive Sunday is sacred. They don't have strong biblical background for it when questioned. Most sunday keepers do not consider it sacred, however.

    JM
     
  15. reddogs

    reddogs Contributor Supporter

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    Ask a Baptist on Sunday 'sacredness' and see if they dont give you a 'flaming sermon' on its 'sacredness' as I got.....
     
  16. Jimlarmore

    Jimlarmore Senior Veteran

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    Talk to a Morman and see what they tell you about Sunday sacredness.

    God Bless
    Jim Larmore
     
  17. Jimlarmore

    Jimlarmore Senior Veteran

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    It depends on if you ask a Southern Baptist or a Free will Baptist. Southern Baptist believe it's sacred, not all free will baptists do. They all observe Sunday as the day to worship though and they defend Sunday observance over Sabbath for various reasons , first and formost because Christ rose on Sunday.

    God Bless
    Jim Larmore
     
  18. StormyOne

    StormyOne Senior Veteran

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    mormons are not a majority denomination.... who else?
     
  19. StormyOne

    StormyOne Senior Veteran

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    there are numerous types of Baptists, to which are you referring to? Was it the person you talked to that believed that or the entire denomination or do you know? As we have found within adventism, just because a few members are extreme does not mean that the church teaches what those few extremists believe....
     
  20. RC_NewProtestants

    RC_NewProtestants Senior Veteran

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    I did in the very first post as I quoted what the article said and then what the actual Bible says:

    It is as inaccurate as doing the following:

    Hebrew 2:10 "In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God," "will sing your praises."

    It is only taking a section from a verse a few sentences away. That you don't see the obvious is probably because you are one of the people I described in my first post.
     
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