Interesting perspective ...

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
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These verses in no way promotes pantheism which is nothing but a twisted counterfeit of the new life in Christ which the scriptures show is experienced by a believer in Jesus Christ.
"Pantheism" is how YOU labeled it. I merely said what the author was writing about is straight from the Bible....in all the "I in Christ, Christ in me" and Body of Christ verses.

A few (for your reference):

John 14:20
"In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.

John 17:23
I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.

Ephesians 3:17-19
So that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God.

1st Corinthians 12:27
Now you are the body of Christ, and each of you is a member of it.

1st Corinthians 12:12
The body is a unit, though it is comprised of many parts. And although its parts are many, they all form one body. So it is with Christ.

I see support for panENtheism in the Bible--which is a bit different than pantheism.

>>>The Greek Church Fathers referred to the transcendence of God as God's "essence" (ousia) and the immanence of God as his "energies" (energeia). In 553, at the Second Council of Constantinople, the universal Church proclaimed a panentheistic vision of the Trinity, developed from St. Paul's writing in Ephesians: "There is One God and Father from whom all things are, one Lord Jesus Christ through whom all things are, and one Holy Spirit in whom all things are." God is in all things, for they spring from him, and all things are in God, for they subsist in him, yet he transcends all as well as emanates in all.~Biblical Panentheism: God in all things
 
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mkgal1

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pantheism which is nothing but a twisted counterfeit of the new life in Christ which the scriptures show is experienced by a believer in Jesus Christ.
Do me a favor then....please. Could you do a compare/contrast between the genuine (what the Scripture means to you).....and the counterfeit? IOW....what's the distinguishing characteristics so we can identify what's genuine and what's a knock-off?
 
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mkgal1

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This is the peace that is beyond all understanding that Christ died to give us. It is peace in who we are, in Him and He did it all. :clap::oldthumbsup:
I completely agree. Apparently it also is beyond explanation as well. Praying others experience this as well.... :prayer:
 
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Ken Rank

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Because it is an interesting perspective. Like the topic title says.
We teach that the only way one can fully understand his own position is to explore all other possible positions with the same passion you explored the one you ended up accepting. Agree with this article or not... it is simply a perspective, a viewpoint... a changing paradigm. Good or bad? That's up to the reader... but considering the position of another and prayerfully weighing it out is far better than memorizing facts as our denomination accepts them and then acting like parrots just repeating what we hear.

Blessings.
Ken
 
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RisenInJesus

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Do me a favor then....please. Could you do a compare/contrast between the genuine (what the Scripture means to you).....and the counterfeit? IOW....what's the distinguishing characteristics so we can identify what's genuine and what's a knock-off?

I believe either view, whether pantheism or panentheism, is contrary to the the nature of God as revealed in the scriptures. According to the scriptures, while God is present everywhere and all-knowing He also transcends all of His creation.

What is pantheism?

What is panentheism?
https://www.gotquestions.org/panentheism.html
 
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mkgal1

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I believe either view, whether pantheism or panentheism, is contrary to the the nature of God as revealed in the scriptures. According to the scriptures, while God is present everywhere and all-knowing He also transcends all of His creation.
In western theology in may be seen as "contrary to the nature of God"....but I can't see what's in opposition to Scripture. He created it all....certainly He CARES for it all--holds it all together....is transforming creation (without interfering with humanity's free will). Your link has misinformation. Panentheism has never been deemed heretical.

>>>God is not just saving people; God is saving all of creation. It is all “Real Presence.” We could call it the primordial “Christification” or anointing of the universe at Creation. This is not pantheism (God is everything), but panentheism (God is in everything!). Such a central message of cosmic incarnation was never seriously taught in the Western, overly individualistic church, except by a few like Hildegard of Bingen (1098-1179), Francis of Assisi (1181-1226), and Bonaventure (1221-1274). It was much more common in the Eastern Church, especially in early scholars and mystics like Maximus the Confessor, Gregory of Nyssa, and Symeon the New Theologian.

Inspired by the more contemporary mystic scientist, Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, Franciscan sister and scientist Ilia Delio writes:

Christ invests himself organically within all creation, immersing himself in things, in the heart of matter, and thus unifying the world. The universe is physically impregnated to the very core of its matter by the influence of his superhuman nature. Everything is physically “christified,” gathered up by the incarnate Word as nourishment that assimilates, transforms, and divinizes. [2]

**[2] Ilia Delio, The Unbearable Wholeness of Being: God, Evolution, and the Power of Love (Orbis Books: 2013), 79.

 
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GingerBeer

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We teach that the only way one can fully understand his own position is to explore all other possible positions with the same passion you explored the one you ended up accepting.
Sounds like way too much work for a single life time. I am content to explore what interests me and I like to hear other people's views even when I disagree with them.
 
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razzelflabben

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We teach that the only way one can fully understand his own position is to explore all other possible positions with the same passion you explored the one you ended up accepting. Agree with this article or not... it is simply a perspective, a viewpoint... a changing paradigm. Good or bad? That's up to the reader... but considering the position of another and prayerfully weighing it out is far better than memorizing facts as our denomination accepts them and then acting like parrots just repeating what we hear.

Blessings.
Ken
the core problem I have with the article is the categorization that all conservatives christians are X when from my personal experience says that should read all liberal christians are X...iow's it's the broad stroke unfair characterization I have a problem with. If the poster had simply said, in the conservative church I went to I felt X or something along that lines I would see it as nothing more than a different perspective. As it is written it is an attack on all conservatives which is sinful according to scripture and unkind and unjust from a worldly situation. In fact, it is what we are seeing in politics today in this country and it is tearing us apart...why do the same to the church?
 
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mkgal1

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... considering the position of another and prayerfully weighing it out is far better than memorizing facts as our denomination accepts them and then acting like parrots just repeating what we hear.

Blessings.
Ken
Absolutely! QFE and truth.
 
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Ken Rank

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Sounds like way too much work for a single life time. I am content to explore what interests me and I like to hear other people's views even when I disagree with them.
Since the alternative is a generation of parrots just repeating what they hear, I don't share your view. Besides... what we teach is methodology.... don't take somebody else's word for anything... we show you how to find a "time period source" and we teach linguistics, ancient near east culture and more that affect the context of Scripture.

Peace.
Ken
 
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Ken Rank

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the core problem I have with the article is the categorization that all conservatives christians are X when from my personal experience says that should read all liberal christians are X...iow's it's the broad stroke unfair characterization I have a problem with. If the poster had simply said, in the conservative church I went to I felt X or something along that lines I would see it as nothing more than a different perspective. As it is written it is an attack on all conservatives which is sinful according to scripture and unkind and unjust from a worldly situation. In fact, it is what we are seeing in politics today in this country and it is tearing us apart...why do the same to the church?
Well said and I couldn't agree more. Our unwillingness to hear the other out... and our willingness to just label another without knowing why they reached the conclusion they did (we always just assume an evil motive) means we will always have these divisions. We can't fix politics... but I won't give up on those who are kin through our Lord. We are expected to work together for the good of the whole... despite our differences.

Blessings.
Ken
 
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GingerBeer

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Since the alternative is a generation of parrots just repeating what they hear, I don't share your view. Besides... what we teach is methodology.... don't take somebody else's word for anything... we show you how to find a "time period source" and we teach linguistics, ancient near east culture and more that affect the context of Scripture.

Peace.
Ken
Who is "we"?
 
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Ken Rank

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Who is "we"?
I am part of a group that purchased a no longer used elementary school. We are about ready to open... most of the classes will be available online... some simply require a need to be in class (they are more interactive and certain aspects just can't be reproduced without being there in person). We already have 12 hours courses in semiotics, linguistics, and historical analysis. And we also have a series of classes on first century Judean and ancient near east culture as well as courses in Hebrew and Aramaic... which are obviously more lengthy.
 
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mkgal1

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BTW....this author is addressing a specific variety of Christianity....this is the description he's speaking to:

Chris Kratzer said:
God is diabolically portrayed as loving humanity while at the same time holding them over eternally consequential conditions—love Him back in return in all the prescribed ways or else suffer forever in a torturous hell. Jesus is personified as the Son who dies at the hands of a wrathful Father who requires His death in order to have the power to forgive. The Bible is reduced to a weapon used to condemn, label, burden, and lift one’s self over others. People are labeled as inherently depraved and evil sinners in need of fixing. The world is seen as “lost” and in need of saving through Evangelical ideology. The Christian life is presented as a never ending list of “to do’s” and sin management. And, the overall mission is to ultimately lead people to believe, think, and act like you—assimilated into the Evangelical Borg of conformity.

.....and the beliefs that have brought him peace...and allowed him to shed the fear are:

God is pure Love—not fine-printed conditions, Jesus is Grace—not condemnation nor punishment. The Gospel is peace—not fear pimped as faith, people are good—not intrinsically evil. The Bible is a catalyst—not a tool for judgement, and Jesus didn’t die at the hands of an angry vengeful God, but rather to keep us from a life of believing He is—angry and vengeful.
 
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razzelflabben

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I am part of a group that purchased a no longer used elementary school. We are about ready to open... most of the classes will be available online... some simply require a need to be in class (they are more interactive and certain aspects just can't be reproduced without being there in person). We already have 12 hours courses in semiotics, linguistics, and historical analysis. And we also have a series of classes on first century Judean and ancient near east culture as well as courses in Hebrew and Aramaic... which are obviously more lengthy.
personally I would love to hear more...
 
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razzelflabben

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BTW....this author is addressing a specific brand of Christianity....this is the description he's speaking to:



.....and the beliefs that have brought him peace...and allowed him to shed the fear are:
and yet he claims it is all conservatives that behave this way which as I said is an attack not just an opinion of certain beliefs....but even further it could be said for all of the liberals I personally have known, that is to say the accusations levied could be levied against all the liberals I personally have known but to do so would be unfair and purposed to stir division rather than conversation and healing.
 
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Ken Rank

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personally I would love to hear more...
Your welcome to send me a PM or look me up on Facebook (I generally use that for ministry only). We just finished the studio (a large green screen, and a smaller black screen) so filming is about to begin. On a side note... I am also doing a 2 minute weekly video called, "a Rank Moment." :) I have over 20 episodes already written, have been waiting on the studio to be made ready. Blessings.
 
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