Interesting blog entry

bekkilyn

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If this theory were true, domestic abuse should be primarily restricted to social or religious conservatives, because they tend to be the ones that take that sort of thing very seriously. Somehow, that doesn't sound right, but maybe it is the case. It's not something I have seriously looked into.

Also remember that even social or religious liberals still have issues with sexism and racism (and other -isms) as these things are ingrained in our culture. We're not always aware of it though and may believe we are not sexist or racist at all even when we are unconsciously practicing some form of it because of systemic sexism and racism in our culture. So while it may turn out that social or religious conservatives are more prone to domestic abuse, it wouldn't completely be restricted to them due to systemic sexism and racism.
 
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FireDragon76

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I sometimes wonder how having a church that seems to reflexively accept having a male pastor is concretely demonstrating a belief in gender equality. Our denomination does ordain women, but our congregation has never called one.

I think there's been a perception that the Church is some kind of bulwark of cultural traditionalism, and has been ever since modernity, when religion was supposed to be a bulwark and a bludgeon against a changing world. And this has been detrimental to the mission of the Church. It goes beyond issues of gender, and it's something that more large, liberal denominations, I believe, are at various places in engagement.
 
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The Righterzpen

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That's more or less accurate history, particularly about Napoleon, who I believe gets a bum rap in most English-language histories. However I think you minimize the power of ideas themselves to shape the world, rather than merely responding to reality as it is.

My intent was not to minimize the power of ideas in society, but to show forth the mechanism and combinations of mechanisms where by which they solidify. Ideas come through a medium. The masses don't know about these ideas, if they aren't some how communicated.

The irony of the French Revolution was that just 15 years earlier; the French aristocracy were consumed with such vehement hatred of Britain; that they were supporting a people's revolt against their king. Now let that one sink in a minute!

Now what made the huge difference between the French Revolution and the American Revolution was The Great Awakening. Between 1740 to 1790 saw what was probably the greatest revival in Northern Europe and North America EVER!

It made the American Revolution the most civil "civil war" planet earth has ever seen and it had reverberations for the next 100 years through Britain and the US. People want to talk about super power megapolis world wide empire? Britain had it! Because of the Great Awakening; Britain was a major force in the spreading of Christianity world wide.

Yet the Great Awakening did not hit France; (at least by 1790 it hadn't). And that is why the French Revolution was so incredibly bloody. But the principle behind the revolt ("The shot heard round the world") certainly wasn't lost on the French people. They understood the action that some commoners across the ocean won a war against a superpower.

Now if the Continental army had lost the battle of Saratoga; the French Revolution probably would have never happened; because the other reality (which Americans don't like to acknowledge) is that they only won the American Revolution ultimately because of the French! Not a popular historical detail in the US! LOL

Now I agree with you Napoleon was at the very least; a military genius! Yet an idea that worked in the favor of the common people; was more important to them than "patriarchal gentry etiquette" as it was developing as a result of the Industrial Revolution.

And here is why I don't think the idea itself of "proper woman's place" was the "driving force of adoption" among the masses at that time. Propaganda is very effective if you know how to use it and this was somewhat of a new tool to the establishment of society going forward from that era.

Prior to the Renaissance and the Protestant Reformation; the major centralized power base was the Roman Catholic Church. Now make no mistake the RCC is still a political / economic force to be reckoned with. Of the world's estimated 7 billion people 2.3 billion (may actually be much more than that, because accurate counts in oppressed countries are hard to come by) are Christians and half of them are Roman Catholic. European society was still patriarchally based; but the concept of what constituted that in practical terms, did change through the centuries.

Now the structure of information flow in 19th century society was obviously very different than it is today. The oligarchs with the money were the ones who could publish the material to propagate their new version of patriarchy; so obviously they are the only voices in the "market place" to be heard.

Also though, another "social factor" that plays its part in here is Darwinism. The concept of "survival of the fittest" as related to societies and ethnic / national identities played a huge role in people's concepts of "self in society" between 1850 and the end of WWII.

And coming on the heals of that is communism. We're feeling the reverberations of that in "social marxism" today in American politics when you compare the "radical liberals" and the overwhelming majority who although may not label themselves as "conservatives"; ideologically speaking they are. "Conservatism" is part of the fabric of the social structure of American society. It's extremely prevalent in American concepts of "work ethic". That is tied to concepts of economic mobility in American society and the exercise of capitalism.

And here (from about the end of WWI to today) is where propaganda has played its role to the hilt in western societies. It was a huge part of WWII, post WWII, the Cold War. And as we get into Christian eschatological theories like Dispensationalism; (That's a whole other thread! LOL) it's there too. The education of the masses and the medium of the spread of information.

That has all changed radically in the past 25 years because of the Internet! The "information age" has had a huge global impact on; especially the spread of alternate ideas. It has it's down sides; but over all I find it to be a very freeing thing! It's definitely an effective way around propaganda. Education for the masses as a means of controlling the masses; has backfired because of the Internet! LOL. Make no mistake - the Internet is a huge blessing from God!

The Victorian concept of patriarchy I don't think "solidified" in the conscience of American religious life until after WWII. And part of that was "social engineering" on account of the war. Here you have 4 years where the bulk of the male American population was off in other parts of the world fighting this war and the women and minority disenfranchised of the population were now the ones working in the factories.

When the war ended, that created a huge social push for those who were in the workforce to get into the home. And this is where I think the Victorian concept of patriarchy solidified in American society; because not only was its indoctrination methodology firmly established in the church; it was also in the public education system of the time. It was also facilitated by the invention of "the superb".

So the Victorian concept of patriarchy wasn't the only infiltration into the church. There were a lot of other things that did not originate with the puritans or the Reformation that also made their way into the church.

Now the next step that solidified it even more as a "staple" of American fundamental religious life, was the sexual revolution in the 1960's. We see this trend over here for the destructive force that it is; so we move in the opposite direction, as opposed to equipping the people spiritually to cope with what was happening in society!

Lastly, I will say that I think we are getting really close to the end of time and with Satan being loosed to "deceive the nations once again". There is a real spiritual war here.

So, a lot of factors go into an idea which either feed it, or take away from its power. My intention was not to minimize the power of an idea; but to show how it came to solidification.
 
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The Righterzpen

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I've seen a lot of research (don't immediately have a link, I'm sorry) showing that there are three consistent ideological beliefs present in domestic abusers which contribute to their behaviour:

- acceptance of violence
- acceptance of gender hierarchy (and other family hierarchies)
- acceptance of rigid gender stereotypes and roles.

So a man who hits a woman tends to believe that he has a "right" to do so because he's "above" her in the scheme of things.

So while complementarianism on it's own might not be enough to drive domestic violence, it is one of the necessary contributing foundations for it on a societal level.

This isn't exactly accurate; because although it's true "acceptance of violence", "acceptance of gender hierarchy...." "acceptance of rigid gender...." are part of the cycle of domestic violence; they aren't there specifically because of Christianity.

Domestic violence has its origins in "broken homes" where the family system is dysfunctional - even if the nuclear family remains "in tact".

The main driver behind domestic violence is the abusers psychological concept of self. Which they usually get from their own childhood.

He/she either lacks the coping skills to deal with stress and acts out physically; or they are "broken" psychologically some other way. Psychology may label them "anti social personality" or some other mental illness. When really, that "category of abuser" lacks conscience and empathy. That type of abuser is the same criminal triad as sex offenders; be they "violent" or not.

They act on emotion, not some principle of "belief in order." The said adoption of "patriarchal beliefs" is not "genuine"; it's more of an afterthought for the justification of their behavior.

And we know it's not the "patriarchal belief system" per say, because violence is perpetrated by both genders. The circumstances and reasons vary; (statistically speaking; single mothers are actually more prone to domestic violence against their children than families with both biological parents in the home).

Domestic violence is fundamentally a "mental health issue" usually with criminal consequences.
 
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PloverWing

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Wayne Grudem is the translator for the ESV version of the bible, and INTENTIONALLY biases translations of passages and verses relating to women in ministry or anything involving relationships between men and women, etc. towards complementarianism.
I didn't realize Grudem was involved with the ESV. I've never really read the ESV, except for occasional snippets on the Internet. My church primarily uses the NRSV, and I use the NRSV and REB for my own reading, and I hadn't paid much attention to the ESV. I had wondered why we needed Yet Another Translation of the Bible, when the NIV and NRSV are fine, readable, reliable translations already. Grudem's agenda would help explain it. :(
 
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The Righterzpen

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Those beliefs aren't there specifically because of Christianity; but some strands of Christianity reinforce them, is the problem.

Well there's no doubt that the Scriptures are written from a "patriarchal perspective"; now what is our proper interpretation as fallen creatures is another question.
 
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FireDragon76

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I didn't realize Grudem was involved with the ESV. I've never really read the ESV, except for occasional snippets on the Internet. My church primarily uses the NRSV, and I use the NRSV and REB for my own reading, and I hadn't paid much attention to the ESV. I had wondered why we needed Yet Another Translation of the Bible, when the NIV and NRSV are fine, readable, reliable translations already. Grudem's agenda would help explain it. :(

Of those three, the NRSV is definitely the superior translation, from the perspective of having a broad base of scholarly consensus.

Both the ESV and NIV were the products of a limited set of biblical scholars and conservative theologians. Robert Preus, a professor that instigated a controversy over the historical-critical method at Concordia St. Louis (which would later lead to a split from the LCMS called Seminex, which in turn lead to part of the ELCA), was a major contributor. So the NIV reflects conservative Reformed and Lutheran theology almost exclusively, to the exclusion of other perspectives.
 
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