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Interesting article about the Catholic vote in the US election

Discussion in 'OBOB General Politics Forum' started by Romans 13:3, Aug 17, 2012.

  1. rainbojo

    rainbojo and yet

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    If we were to take the 1% group of the richest people in America and collectively take ALL their money, that would pay down the 16 trillion dollar deficit by 1/2%. Presently the richest of our country pay more taxes than anyone on the planet. Middle class? Do you have any idea who will pay for Obamacare? The monies will come from Medicare to the tune of 7.1 billion dollars, businesses will be taxed more and the middle class. I see you have made mention of the Tea Party, what are your thoughts regarding "Occupy Wall Street"?
     
  2. Fantine

    Fantine Dona Quixote Supporter

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    If I were 40 years younger and not working full-time, I'd go pitch a tent in Washington Square myself.

    Mitt Romney, Bill Gates, and Warren Buffett have tax rates in the low teens themselves (at least Gates and Buffett have the grace to be embarrassed about it instead of naming a VP candidate who wants to make your $6 million tax bill "zero.")

    We will NEVER erase the $16 billion national debt....but we can, year by year, budget more prudently.

    When people complain about the terrible taxes of the wealthiest 1%, they never note that they control a similar amount (or an even higher amount) of the nation's assets....

    Enacting the Ryan tax breaks for the rich would add another $4.5 trillion to the deficit....
     
  3. rainbojo

    rainbojo and yet

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    You are making some huge statements. By the way, it is 16 TRILLION, not billion. I would agree with your statement to 'budget more prudently'. You are saying we will never erase the debt, OUCH, OUCH, OUCH. Because I am planning on that being accomplished, by NOT voting for this sitting president.

    Fantine, are you angry with the rich? The Occupy Wall Street movement turned into what? What was that anyway? What was their point besides partying, which turned into theft, and other crimes, etc. Camping out in cities for what? what was their beef? What I heard was "hey I want to make what the CEOs earn." Really??? Reallly??? Then pack up your tent, act like a grown up and earn your way in our free enterprise system. If you are angry with the rich, please don't forget about the Kennedys, John Kerry, John Edwards, and, as you know, that list goes on. And one other question, what figure in your mind, constitutes a 'rich' person?
     
  4. Fantine

    Fantine Dona Quixote Supporter

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    I'm not angry at the rich.

    Are you angry at the poor? Are you angry at the immigrants? Are you angry at veterans with PTSD? Are you angry at your grandparents?

    Well, if you're not, why do you think I'm angry at "the rich" just because I want fairness?

    It's just that somehow or other in the midst of the mildly hard knocks we had in life, I got to know a lot of people whom I never would have gotten to know in the very comfortable suburbs I lived in in St. Louis....

    When we suffered our mildly hard knocks, I was feeling mildly sorry for myself, and then I got to see the terrible unfairness in the lives most people lived and I was like, "Good heavens!" I couldn't believe it!

    And what amazed me the most was how extraordinarily generous and friendly people who've had really hard lives are--and I knew that they deserve more opportunity than what they had.

    But most importantly, I see a lot of real structural problems in how America does business now--where the bottom line matters more than employees, more than communities, even when companies have to close factories, lay people off, manufacture in China...whatever it takes to bring the stock up.

    I think we need to be investing in people. That's not hating the rich. It's expecting more of them.
     
  5. rainbojo

    rainbojo and yet

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    I didn't say anything about 'hate', I just asked if you were angry with the rich. America is the land of opportunities, yes? We all have the ability to 'be' or 'become' something and if government plays too big of a part, welllllll we would become something other than who we are.

    Point well taken that you want 'fairness', that is a very kind thing to wish. Logically though how does 'fairness' play out? One only has to look at other countries and there it is, right before you. It is 'we' the people, not the government. Companies like Apple, McDonalds, Star Bucks, Home Depot, they ventured out, took a risk, gave their hearts and souls, blood, sweat, and tears to accomplish their dreams and who am I to tell them what they should or shouldn't do with their money after taxes? I certainly wouldn't want anyone telling me what to do with mine. How does 'fairness' play out?

    I understand your comment about the extraordinarily generous and friendly people who've had really hard lives, but not sure about the 'they deserved more opportunity than what they had." Maybe they didn't take hold of an opportunity? How does one know? I happen to believe America gives everyone ample opportunities, ample possibilities, ample help. We have made mistakes in our short history no doubt but all in all, we are one nation, under God and Obama simply is not doing the job he was voted in to do.
     
  6. Fantine

    Fantine Dona Quixote Supporter

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    I agree to an extent. We've been hearing all week and all last week that Romney and Republicans are favored by white working class men---that's almost the only demographic group they hold a strong advantage with.

    And I know that the foundation for that mandate was laid in affirmative action, because you couldn't practice affirmative action without discriminating against someone else.

    When affirmative action was strong, I lived on Long Island, NY. For years and years, every new police officer hired was a minority. The white guys could have 100% on their tests, associate degrees, veterans' preferences (extra points) and not one would get hired, because the Nassau and Suffolk County police were making up for years of discrimination.

    Capable, talented minority entrepreneurs would get all the government contracts--pretty much guaranteed business success, and the white-owned businesses shriveled on the vine.

    And this is the legacy it's left....

    I don't think there's anywhere near as much affirmative action today....but the white men who became lifelong Republicans have long memories...even if Democratic policies may help them more now.
     
  7. arborvita

    arborvita Retired. Supporter

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    *mod hat*
    thread moved to subforum
     
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