Intelligent Design

Nihilist Virus

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As we all know, HIV is the direct result of lustful sin and Covid-19 is of course a liberal hoax. But there definitely are viruses which do exist for all of us.

Given that biological evolution is a fiction, life only exists as a result of intelligent design.

Now how do we reconcile these two factual paragraphs? When God created the universe 6,000-10,000 years ago, he "saw that it was good." Lions were vegetarians. Viruses either didn't exist, or else they weren't harmful to us.

Suppose viruses didn't exist. Then that would mean they came into existence as a result of sin. But aside from Covid-19, viruses seem to be intelligently designed. How can sin produce intelligent design?

Suppose viruses did exist. How did that work? Were viruses vegetarians also?
 

Pavel Mosko

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As we all know, HIV is the direct result of lustful sin and Covid-19 is of course a liberal hoax. But there definitely are viruses which do exist for all of us.

Given that biological evolution is a fiction, life only exists as a result of intelligent design.

Now how do we reconcile these two factual paragraphs? When God created the universe 6,000-10,000 years ago, he "saw that it was good." Lions were vegetarians. Viruses either didn't exist, or else they weren't harmful to us.

Suppose viruses didn't exist. Then that would mean they came into existence as a result of sin. But aside from Covid-19, viruses seem to be intelligently designed. How can sin produce intelligent design?

Suppose viruses did exist. How did that work? Were viruses vegetarians also?


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Nihilist Virus

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"Among the many questions I have received on my social media pages is this one: Why would an all-powerful and all-loving God create a world in which viruses exist?"

Thanks but this is not what I asked. I'm not questioning the morality of viruses. If God wants to kill babies, then killing babies would obviously be a good thing. Also, this guy is an astronomer, so we might as well be asking a janitor his opinion on biology. Lastly, this person believes in deep time and therefore cannot be trusted.
 
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cvanwey

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As we all know, HIV is the direct result of lustful sin and Covid-19 is of course a liberal hoax. But there definitely are viruses which do exist for all of us.

Given that biological evolution is a fiction, life only exists as a result of intelligent design.

Now how do we reconcile these two factual paragraphs? When God created the universe 6,000-10,000 years ago, he "saw that it was good." Lions were vegetarians. Viruses either didn't exist, or else they weren't harmful to us.

Suppose viruses didn't exist. Then that would mean they came into existence as a result of sin. But aside from Covid-19, viruses seem to be intelligently designed. How can sin produce intelligent design?

Suppose viruses did exist. How did that work? Were viruses vegetarians also?

One additional concept to add...

Which one of the eight, on the Ark, carried all the viruses to assure their survival post flood? Or did they split them up into 1/8's?
 
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Pavel Mosko

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"Among the many questions I have received on my social media pages is this one: Why would an all-powerful and all-loving God create a world in which viruses exist?"

Thanks but this is not what I asked. I'm not questioning the morality of viruses. If God wants to kill babies, then killing babies would obviously be a good thing. Also, this guy is an astronomer, so we might as well be asking a janitor his opinion on biology. Lastly, this person believes in deep time and therefore cannot be trusted.

It does address the OP in part, its just you have ADD and cannot read past the opening line.
You asked the OP on the pretext of sin, presuming the Fall, while the article actually talks about the origin of viruses as part of the created order and not in terms of the fall, aka sin.



Also, this guy is an astronomer, so we might as well be asking a janitor his opinion on biology.

Sure if the janitor likewise spends hundreds of hours every year reading journal articles, research etc. from many disciplines including biology, for the last three or four decades, and has completed masters and doctoral programs, why not?

But aside from the specious argument, false analogy and implied ad hominen, the organization Reasons to believe actually has plenty of biologists on their staff or as visiting scholars.


Biology

Lastly, this person believes in deep time and therefore cannot be trusted.

So says the strawmaning atheist.... Well I will leave you to your grand standing and strawmaning @Nihilist Virus
 
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Nihilist Virus

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One additional concept to add...

Which one of the eight, on the Ark, carried all the viruses to assure their survival post flood? Or did they split them up into 1/8's?

Dibs on tapeworms. Need to lose some of this quarantine weight.
 
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Nihilist Virus

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It does address the OP in part, its just you have ADD and cannot read past the opening line.

...

But aside from the specious argument, false analogy and implied ad hominen, the organization Reasons to believe actually has plenty of biologists on their staff or as visiting scholars.@Nihilist Virus

You accuse me of having ADD, then accuse me of ad hominem. How am I going to say that someone's argument is invalid if I didn't even read the argument? I made no comment on the argument and therefore there's nothing I could say about him personally that would qualify as an ad hominem fallacy.

I'm not going to read the answer to a question that I don't care about.

"How many stamps does Bob have in his collection? Read on to find out." No thanks!
 
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2PhiloVoid

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"Among the many questions I have received on my social media pages is this one: Why would an all-powerful and all-loving God create a world in which viruses exist?"

Thanks but this is not what I asked. I'm not questioning the morality of viruses. If God wants to kill babies, then killing babies would obviously be a good thing. Also, this guy is an astronomer, so we might as well be asking a janitor his opinion on biology. Lastly, this person believes in deep time and therefore cannot be trusted.

Sounds like you and @The happy Objectivist need to have a talk! ^_^
 
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2PhiloVoid

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As we all know, HIV is the direct result of lustful sin and Covid-19 is of course a liberal hoax. But there definitely are viruses which do exist for all of us.

Given that biological evolution is a fiction, life only exists as a result of intelligent design.

Now how do we reconcile these two factual paragraphs? When God created the universe 6,000-10,000 years ago, he "saw that it was good." Lions were vegetarians. Viruses either didn't exist, or else they weren't harmful to us.

Suppose viruses didn't exist. Then that would mean they came into existence as a result of sin. But aside from Covid-19, viruses seem to be intelligently designed. How can sin produce intelligent design?

Suppose viruses did exist. How did that work? Were viruses vegetarians also?

Personally, I've always supposed that death existed even before Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit. But, of course, that's just me being me, all screwed up in the head due to my Hermeneutical study and whatnot.

:rolleyes:
 
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Moral Orel

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Suppose viruses did exist. How did that work? Were viruses vegetarians also?
I skimmed that article you didn't read and it did kind of answer this question.

You accuse me of having ADD, then accuse me of ad hominem. How am I going to say that someone's argument is invalid if I didn't even read the argument? I made no comment on the argument and therefore there's nothing I could say about him personally that would qualify as an ad hominem fallacy.

You didn't ad hom. Pavel thought you did because you compared the author to a janitor when you were pointing out his appeal to false expertise. But you did poison the well:

Lastly, this person believes in deep time and therefore cannot be trusted.
 
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Pavel Mosko

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Personally, I've always supposed that death existed even before Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit. But, of course, that's just me being me, all screwed up in the head due to my Hermeneutical study and whatnot.

:rolleyes:

That sounds like an interesting study.

I was raised young earth Creationist Christian, became agnostic in college and was Old Earth Creationism, Christianity in grad school and beyond.
 
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Nihilist Virus

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Sounds like you and @The happy Objectivist need to have a talk! ^_^

Ok. I don't know who that is.

Personally, I've always supposed that death existed even before Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit. But, of course, that's just me being me, all screwed up in the head due to my Hermeneutical study and whatnot.

:rolleyes:

Well of course. When God says to lean not on your own understanding, what do you do? Lean on your own understanding every single time.
 
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Nihilist Virus

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I skimmed that article you didn't read and it did kind of answer this question.

I didn't read it because the question it is purported to be answering is not what I asked. I don't care if it has the cure for cancer, blueprints for cold fusion, a formula for the n'th prime number, and indisputable proof that God exists. It's answering a question that I didn't ask, so I didn't read it.

If he would've copy/pasted the relevant information and then credited the author, like a normal person, then I would've read it. He'd rather call names than post it.


You didn't ad hom. Pavel thought you did because you compared the author to a janitor when you were pointing out his appeal to false expertise. But you did poison the well:

So you're saying I can trust someone who says the universe is older than 10,000 years old? What's next, I'm supposed to believe that he can tell me how old a rock is with uranium? Let's not be silly here. I'm just trying to figure out whether viruses spawned into existence supernaturally when Adam and Eve ate fruit or whether viruses existed from the beginning as vegetarians.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Ok. I don't know who that is.



Well of course. When God says to lean not on your own understanding, what do you do? Lean on your own understanding every single time.

Of course I lean on my own understanding. Why wouldn't I, especially when reading some ancient, foreign, clunky text that is laced with religious Cosmogony? ... it's not as if the collective voices of the bible can explain themselves by tapping into something outside of the partial statements that may have come to them from an Eternal, Omniscience God.

Regardless of whose understanding needs to be employed when reading the bible, I think that the presence of entropy is obviously insinuated in the narrative of the text--along with the potential for death--both before and after Adam and Eve were created. Without God's intervention, it would be the natural state of things ... but somehow, some folks seem to have missed the wagon on that. I'm not sure why. Well, maybe I have an idea as to why ... maybe some folks lean not on their own understanding when reading the bible and they miss some things. Stranger things have happened....:dontcare:
 
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Nihilist Virus

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Of course I lean on my own understanding. Why wouldn't I, especially when reading some ancient, foreign, clunky text that is laced with religious Cosmogony? ... it's not as if the collective voices of the bible can explain themselves by tapping into something outside of the partial statements that may have come to them from an Eternal, Omniscience God.

Regardless of whose understanding needs to be employed when reading the bible, I think that the presence of entropy is obviously insinuated in the narrative of the text--along with the potential for death--both before and after Adam and Eve were created. Without God's intervention, it would be the natural state of things ... but somehow, some folks seem to have missed the wagon on that. I'm not sure why. Well, maybe I have an idea as to why ... maybe some folks lean not on their own understanding when reading the bible and they miss some things. Stranger things have happened....:dontcare:

God created the universe, saw that it was "good", and then cursed both Adam and the land after he ate the forbidden fruit.

Is entropy good? Is death good?
 
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As we all know, HIV is the direct result of lustful sin and Covid-19 is of course a liberal hoax. But there definitely are viruses which do exist for all of us.

Given that biological evolution is a fiction, life only exists as a result of intelligent design.

Now how do we reconcile these two factual paragraphs? When God created the universe 6,000-10,000 years ago, he "saw that it was good." Lions were vegetarians. Viruses either didn't exist, or else they weren't harmful to us.

Suppose viruses didn't exist. Then that would mean they came into existence as a result of sin. But aside from Covid-19, viruses seem to be intelligently designed. How can sin produce intelligent design?

Suppose viruses did exist. How did that work? Were viruses vegetarians also?
Well sir...man was created perfect, but then his wife ate an apple (or a fig) and their genetic code was corrupted. Then, evil viruses entered the world when Satan sneezed and Adam and Eve did not have any natural immunity. I think that explains it. I'm calling this the Sinusitis Daemonium Theory. See--it even has sin in the title.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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God created the universe, saw that it was "good", and then cursed both Adam and the land after he ate the forbidden fruit.

Is entropy good? Is death good?

b.s. ! ... you didn't read the text.
 
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Jok

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Why do you think we are angry? Look at the comment right before yours. That's not an atheist.
Rats! After posting that I realized it might be a funny setup for someone to reply by flipping out on me, you fumbled the alley oop lol

CC0B0E0F-B787-4E80-94B7-0315F2F817B5.jpeg


Ok sorry people carryon, don’t mind my sometimes uncontrollable thoughts it just felt a bit angry in here to me
 
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