SummerMadness

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Inside 100 million police traffic stops: New evidence of racial bias
Stanford University researchers have compiled the most comprehensive evidence to date suggesting there is a pattern of racial disparities in traffic stops. The researchers provided NBC News with the traffic-stop data — the largest such dataset ever collected — which points to pervasive inequality in how police decide to stop and search white and minority drivers.

Using information obtained through public record requests, the Stanford Open Policing Project examined almost 100 million traffic stops conducted from 2011 to 2017 across 21 state patrol agencies, including California, Illinois, New York and Texas, and 29 municipal police departments, including New Orleans, Philadelphia, San Francisco and St. Paul, Minnesota.
  • Police stops: A "veil of darkness" test was done to analyze whether black drivers are being pulled over at a higher rate during the day than at night, when officers would have a harder time distinguishing race from a distance. After adjusting for the variation in sunset times across the year, researchers found a 5 to 10 percent drop in the share of stopped drivers after sunset who are black, suggesting black drivers are being racially profiled during the day.
  • Police searches: Researchers reviewed the rate at which drivers were searched and the likelihood that those searches turned up illegal drugs and guns. There was evidence that the bar for searching black and Latino drivers is lower than that for white drivers, even though white drivers were more likely to have contraband. Across states, contraband was found in 36 percent of searches of white drivers, compared to 32 percent for black drivers and 26 percent for Latinos.
  • Impact of marijuana legalization: After the legalization of recreational marijuana in Colorado and Washington state, there has been a reduction in searches of both white and minority drivers. But the search rate remains twice as high for minorities, a trend also noted in a 2017 Stanford study.
 

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Do these statistics take into consideration the race of the officers involved...?

I knew a black, retired cop from the St. Louis [MO] area who told us that black criminals outnumbered other races in an area that was well-mixed otherwise. If a black cop makes such an observation, is he being racist/racially biased?
 
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SummerMadness

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Do these statistics take into consideration the race of the officers involved...?

I knew a black, retired cop from the St. Louis [MO] area who told us that black criminals outnumbered other races in an area that was well-mixed otherwise. If a black cop makes such an observation, is he being racist/racially biased?
Ah, the old racist "blacks are criminals" comment with a finger pointed at a black person making the comment, "They said it! I didn't say anything like that!" Uncle Ruckus is also black, he's still racist. The race of the officers is irrelevant.
 
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devin553344

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Why do you think blacks are getting more traffic stops, is it racism or stereotyping? I'm schizophrenic and we get a lot of negative media coverage regarding the mental health crisis. And I'm somewhat forced to not tell people I'm schizophrenic when I'm in person usually.

I get kinda angry with the media.
 
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SummerMadness

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I'm sad to say that this new evidence doesn't surprise me, to be honest.
The data is a downer, but their work is important because they control for many factors people use as excuses to dismiss issues of racial profiling. One point that stuck out to me is how time of day plays in factor in who is pulled over.
 
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Highly recommended, Pulitzer Prize winning book on this subject:

Locking Up Our Own: Crime and Punishment in Black America

Summary:
Former public defender James Forman, Jr. is a leading critic of mass incarceration and its disproportionate impact on people of color. In Locking Up Our Own, he seeks to understand the war on crime that began in the 1970s and why it was supported by many African American leaders in the nation’s urban centers.

Forman shows us that the first substantial cohort of black mayors, judges, and police chiefs took office amid a surge in crime and drug addiction. Many prominent black officials, including Washington, D.C. mayor Marion Barry and federal prosecutor Eric Holder, feared that the gains of the civil rights movement were being undermined by lawlessness―and thus embraced tough-on-crime measures, including longer sentences and aggressive police tactics. In the face of skyrocketing murder rates and the proliferation of open-air drug markets, they believed they had no choice. But the policies they adopted would have devastating consequences for residents of poor black neighborhoods.

A former D.C. public defender, Forman tells riveting stories of politicians, community activists, police officers, defendants, and crime victims. He writes with compassion about individuals trapped in terrible dilemmas―from the men and women he represented in court to officials struggling to respond to a public safety emergency. Locking Up Our Own enriches our understanding of why our society became so punitive and offers important lessons to anyone concerned about the future of race and the criminal justice system in this country.
 
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98cwitr

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Ah, the old racist "blacks are criminals" comment with a finger pointed at a black person making the comment, "They said it! I didn't say anything like that!" Uncle Ruckus is also black, he's still racist. The race of the officers is irrelevant.

Then the race of the offenders is also irrelevant. If you speed, then you're gonna get pulled over; doesn't matter what color your skin is. This is very simple to draw a cause/effect conclusion on. Now, if you want to break down traffic violations by race, we can, but I don't think it serves any purpose other than to continue the division narrative. I'd much rather talk about cultures; those that are proponents of law-abiding behaviors and those that are not. Before going down that road, I need to know if you conflate race with culture or not.
 
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SummerMadness

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Then the race of the offenders is also irrelevant. If you speed, then you're gonna get pulled over; doesn't matter what color your skin is. This is very simple to draw a cause/effect conclusion on. Now, if you want to break down traffic violations by race, we can, but I don't think it serves any purpose other than to continue the division narrative. I'd much rather talk about cultures; those that are proponents of law-abiding behaviors and those that are not. Before going down that road, I need to know if you conflate race with culture or not.
There were slaves that informed against other slaves who were planning to rebel or escape; this fact does not mean that American slavery was not a racist institution. Just because you can find someone of the same race upholding a system that targets that group does not remove the racism of that system. What you're arguing is to ignore racism in the system by not collecting data. I don't see how you can sit there with a straight face and support something like that when racism in the United States was the rule as opposed to the exception.

There are various versions of this graphic with slightly different dates, but they all communicate the same thing, racism has a long history in the United States and a change to laws didn't eliminate that system:
CouSQMtWAAAYxOH.jpg


Racism in policing has long been an issue in the United States, one has no further to look than the various DOJ reports on policing in American cities across the country. I implore you to actually read through one of these reports before you argue that we shouldn't collect data. These cities did not collect data before and look at the incidents that occurred.

We also know that most police officers (84%) have witnessed colleagues use excessive force on civilians, and most admit (61%) they don't report even serious criminal violations, how can you sit there and claim the issue is collecting the data and not the system that perpetuates racism? We also have numerous studies that speak to this issue (What the Data Really Says About Police and Racial Bias), yet we still get the same excuses (black people are more violent, it's about level of crime, or "black culture"). This is not about culture, it's about institutional and systemic racism.

These reports and this study have more than enough information to show that more black drivers and citizens are stopped despite having committed no crime, that's one of the major findings: black motorists are targeted, yet white motorists have the higher incidents of carrying contraband. If there was no racial bias, there should be no difference between the groups. We are ill equipped to address inequality when we refuse to actually collect data on the level of inequality that still exists. What issues have you ever addressed by not first seeking to understand the scope and breadth of that issue?
 
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Then the race of the offenders is also irrelevant. If you speed, then you're gonna get pulled over; doesn't matter what color your skin is. This is very simple to draw a cause/effect conclusion on. Now, if you want to break down traffic violations by race, we can, but I don't think it serves any purpose other than to continue the division narrative. I'd much rather talk about cultures; those that are proponents of law-abiding behaviors and those that are not. Before going down that road, I need to know if you conflate race with culture or not.
One of the first things we should do to cease the division narrative is to root out the racist tendencies that the study identified in our justice system.
 
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98cwitr

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One of the first things we should do to cease the division narrative is to root out the racist tendencies that the study identified in our justice system.

Then drop race from the statistics?
 
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98cwitr

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That would be dumb because then the racism could carry on, but we'd have no way to know except by anecdote and personal impessions.

That's fair. So what is to be said of the FBI crime stats? https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/tables/table-43

We've got 13% of the population committing 50% of violent crimes, 51% of robberies/larceny, and a single motherhood rate of over 70% when it used to be 25% prior to the civil rights movement. Candace Owens had a sit down very recently with the NY chapter president of BLM and discussed these things, and I found their conversation very intriguing and insightful (can't post it here, but it's on Youtube). It's obvious these things has nothing to do with the color of a person's skin...so what is it?

@SummerMadness Since you've given me some reading assignments, please give me some time to research and reply. Those are all rather lengthy. Albeit, I do hope you will provide an unbiased source for your crime-stats expose, as vanityfair is far-left: Vanity Fair - Media Bias/Fact Check
 
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Ah, the old racist "blacks are criminals" comment with a finger pointed at a black person making the comment, "They said it! I didn't say anything like that!" Uncle Ruckus is also black, he's still racist. The race of the officers is irrelevant.

A 2018 report showing blacks are pulled over 85% more often...

Missouri report: Blacks 85 percent more likely to be stopped

If they're still pulled over 75-80% more often when police don't know they're black...what is going on with black drivers?
 
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98cwitr

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There were slaves that informed against other slaves who were planning to rebel or escape; this fact does not mean that American slavery was not a racist institution. Just because you can find someone of the same race upholding a system that targets that group does not remove the racism of that system. What you're arguing is to ignore racism in the system by not collecting data. I don't see how you can sit there with a straight face and support something like that when racism in the United States was the rule as opposed to the exception.

There are various versions of this graphic with slightly different dates, but they all communicate the same thing, racism has a long history in the United States and a change to laws didn't eliminate that system:
CouSQMtWAAAYxOH.jpg


Racism in policing has long been an issue in the United States, one has no further to look than the various DOJ reports on policing in American cities across the country. I implore you to actually read through one of these reports before you argue that we shouldn't collect data. These cities did not collect data before and look at the incidents that occurred.
We also know that most police officers (84%) have witnessed colleagues use excessive force on civilians, and most admit (61%) they don't report even serious criminal violations, how can you sit there and claim the issue is collecting the data and not the system that perpetuates racism? We also have numerous studies that speak to this issue (What the Data Really Says About Police and Racial Bias), yet we still get the same excuses (black people are more violent, it's about level of crime, or "black culture"). This is not about culture, it's about institutional and systemic racism.

These reports and this study have more than enough information to show that more black drivers and citizens are stopped despite having committed no crime, that's one of the major findings: black motorists are targeted, yet white motorists have the higher incidents of carrying contraband. If there was no racial bias, there should be no difference between the groups. We are ill equipped to address inequality when we refuse to actually collect data on the level of inequality that still exists. What issues have you ever addressed by not first seeking to understand the scope and breadth of that issue?


I'm still gonna try and look through the bulleted links, but as far as the speeding goes:

They did a study investigating racial bias in regards to traffic stops for speeding in New Jersey a while back.

They found that black people were being pulled over for speeding at disproportionate rates because they were speeding at disproportionate rates.
In the southern segment of the turnpike, where the speed limit is 65 m.p.h., 2.7 percent of black drivers were speeders, compared with 1.4 percent of white drivers. Among drivers going faster than 90 m.p.h., the disparity was even greater.

By contrast, blacks were no more likely to speed than whites when the limit was 55 m.p.h. In those geographical segments of the turnpike, 13.1 percent of black drivers were speeders, compared with 13.5 percent of white drivers.


Study Suggests Racial Gap In Speeding In New Jersey

Geography seems to be a factor???

The last paragraph leaves much room for further investigation, and could lead to more evidence of racial issues within police, as you mention:

''Even if it turns out that there was evidence that blacks drive differently from whites, it doesn't account for the fact that blacks are four or five times more likely to be searched,'' said William H. Buckman, a lawyer who won the first New Jersey case in which a judge acknowledged the existence of racial profiling. ''It also doesn't account for the fact that state police gave a handout giving troopers a whole list of traffic violations to use as a pretext for racial profiling. There is so much out there that no one can credibly deny that racial profiling is a reality.''
 
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SummerMadness

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Then drop race from the statistics?
You're giving a colorblind argument supposing racism is caused by seeing skin color as opposed to racism being a system or institution defined by inequality. How is ignoring data going to eliminate that system? How is not reporting police conduct going to eliminate misconduct? If you don't record the misconduct, then it doesn't exist?

We know that racism still exists in policing, but to what extent? And how does ignoring skin color eliminate unequal treatment? Not recording the disproportionate stops of African Americans and how their behavior or culture is irrelevant to those stops is exactly why we need to record such data.

That's fair. So what is to be said of the FBI crime stats? https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/tables/table-43

We've got 13% of the population committing 50% of violent crimes, 51% of robberies/larceny, and a single motherhood rate of over 70% when it used to be 25% prior to the civil rights movement. Candace Owens had a sit down very recently with the NY chapter president of BLM and discussed these things, and I found their conversation very intriguing and insightful (can't post it here, but it's on Youtube).
Those statistics are irrelevant. When a police officer stops a motorist, should they be looking at statistics or the conduct of the motorist? What do violent crime statistics have to do with motorist driving? What does single motherhood have to do with whether or not you should pull over a car? The study already demonstrates that crime is not the issue, hence the lower rates of contraband found in searches among black motorists. Those results mirror other studies that have found the crime in an area is not a determining factor of who is stopped, rather it is their skin color. So how does not recording such data help eliminate racism? Out of sight out of mind? Ignoring racism simply means you're ignoring the problem, and if we use the behavior of some users on the forum, they argue there is no racism because there is no data demonstrating that (I find this slightly ironic because this same crowd now trumpets increased hate crimes directed at Jewish people, while arguing we need to stop focusing on intolerance toward Muslims).

Again, the "black crime" argument is an old racist trope that is repeatedly disproven by these studies, so why continue to push this argument? Especially when someone committing a mugging has zero connection to what speed I am driving on the highway. As a person that has been pulled over multiples times within months of buying a new car, what does single motherhood have to do with me being pulled over while observing all traffic laws and driving the speed limit (in none of my traffic stops did I receive a warning or ticket)?
 
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