Information war and Jews

[kathaksung]

I posted a thread 'Information war' a week ago in another web site. I came back there with surprise that it became an argument of Jews and muslim. I've never thought of Jews when I posted it. I only want to express my concern that government openly said they would influence people by 'false information'.(another word for lie.)I allege they have already done so. Anthrax attack well served their purpose.

Several people said they don't mind government do so if it could help to win the enemy. It seems these people are Jews and they took this war as Israel vs. Arabs. Now I believe so, according to these people's opinion.

When 911 attack took place, and US has a war in Afghanistan, I wonder why no question was asked about why this happened. Why it was not China, Russia, France..., but US targeted. From my point of view, apparently it was caused by long time US bias on Israel in Middle East Conflict. But most incredible thing is that there is no word talk about such an important issue in mainstream media.

Granham said 30 years ago that Jews strangleheld media. Even though he appologized for this, now I think what he said is true. He and President Nixon are high level people. They had their reason having such opinion. Whomever the owner is of these media, the influence of Israel(or Jews, sorry it's hard to distinguish) is obvious. From the forbidden topic of motive of 911 attack, to the opinion of doing whatever to do to win the war by Jews. They view this war theirs. I suddenly beware it may be true.

 

[rollinTHUNDER]

It sounds like you have some dislike for the Jews. Be very careful brother. This could either bless or curse you. God promised to bless those who bless Israel, but curse those who cursed her.

 

[kathaksung]

I believe Jews have right to live in Middle East. The above message is my opinion of 1. I think the motive of 911 attack is an important issue, and doubt why there was rarely discussion about it. 2. The news of Graham and Nixon's talking may explain something. 3. It looks like a forbidden topic, from your warning and majority silence. So the influence is true there.

(Sorry for double post. I mis posted on new topic. It should be a reply)

 

[marmaladePRO]

i'll move that for yah K

 

[Yauming]

Originally posted by kathaksung
When 911 attack took place, and US has a war in Afghanistan, I wonder why no question was asked about why this happened. Why it was not China, Russia, France..., but US targeted. From my point of view, apparently it was caused by long time US bias on Israel in Middle East Conflict. But most incredible thing is that there is no word talk about such an important issue in mainstream media.

The terrorist would not have targeted China or Russia because those two nations would have gone all out and crushed their enemies ruthlessly - they don't take any prisoners. And any prisoners that they capture they will torture to death. They would also have killed all their family members. See how China treats the peaceful Falung Gong sect, and some Christians. Also see how Russia has invaded Chechnea.

At least with the Americans, they feel obliged to help their defeated enemy afterwards - look at Japan and Germany -50 years after WWII.

 

[ping pong]

The Life of an American Jew
in Racist-Marxist Israel
by Jack Bernstein
Copyright © 1984 by Jack Bernstein and Leonard (Len) Martin

Before Israel became a state in 1948, Jews world-wide were filled with the Zionist propaganda that Israel would be a homeland for all Jews, a refuge for persecuted Jews, a truly democratic country, and the fulfillment of Biblical prophecy.

I am an Ashkenazi Jew who spent the first 25 years of my life in the United States, the country that has given ALL Jews freedom and the opportunity to prosper -- and prosper we Jews did, to the point that one segment of the Jewish population (the Zionists) have gained a position of political and economic dominance in the U.S.

http://www.thewinds.org/library/jewish_racism.html


=====

American Jewish Petition
to Suspend U.S. Military Aid to Israel
We, the undersigned American Jews, call upon the U.S. government to suspend military aid to Israel until Israel ends its occupation of the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem. Israel continues to use U.S. arms against civilians in violation of U.S. and international law. As Americans, we do not want our foreign aid dollars used to deprive Palestinians of justice and human rights. As Jews, although we support a democratic Israel, we must criticize its security policies that have the effect of making it less safe, not more.We believe that U.S. military aid to Israel harms all the peoples of the Middle East as well as the U.S. itself.

http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/current/petition.html

 

[rollinTHUNDER]

Hello Ping Pong,
Very interesting. What the American Jews fail to realize, is that Arafat and most of the extreme muslims that surround Israel have a goal. And that goal is, take complete control over Jerusalem, and then destroy the nation of Israel. Maybe these American Jews should go try to live in Israel for a month or so. If they would, I would expect that they would come out singing a different tune. It is amazing how no-one wanted to live there before, but now that the Jews have returned, the muslims are jealous. Why?? Because the land was worthless desert until God blessed it again and the ground became fertile. Now it's once again flowing with milk and honey, and the muslims can't stand it. Why can't the muslims go back to where ever they were before the Jews returned to re-claim their land?? I know, that is wishful thinking, and God has a plan. So that is why wars have been decreed to the very end. God Bless !! GO ISRAEL !!!!!!!

 

[Fish]

Rolling Thunder,
You have kind of unknowingly hit upon the reason why the Palestinians are angry. They have been forced
out of their homes, and many have been in refugee
camps for decades. But pondering why they don't
go back to where they were before the Jews showed up
is kind of silly and immature. You tend to simplify real
problems by by reasoning and logic that can best be
described as racist.
The Jews that settled in Palestine came in great numbers after WWII, and a lot of terrorism was going
on then too. But the terrorists then were Jewish,
killing and bombing the British.
What to do with the millions of displaced Palestinians
that were forced out of their homes is the main problem.
Living in Israel they are second class citizens with no
voice and few rights. Don't you think they deserve
a a right to have their own government? Would you be
upset if your family was forced out of your home at
gunpoint and they were made to live in a camp for
the rest of their lives?
The attitudes of many on this forum are not very
Christ-like in regards to Arabs, and some are downright
bloodthirsty. To oversimplify the issues and make racist
comments only fan the flames more on a big enough
fire. I am not pro- arab or pro-jew, just know that there
are two sides to every coin.
As far as a pro-Israel bias in the news media, that
is fairly obvious. Nixon and Billy Graham could see the
obvious. That discussion was not too long after the
attack on the U.S.S. Liberty. Of course none of you all
here know about that. 34 U.S. sailors were butchered
by Israelis aircraft.
Sorry to barge in on your happy little forum with a bit of truth.
Fish

 

[Fish]

Boy, that sure stopped comment on this thread!!
Hard to chant "Go Israel!!" after that???
I would like to have any of you all correct me if I am
mistaken in any way.

 

[davo]

Originally posted by Fish
Boy, that sure stopped comment on this thread!!
Hard to chant "Go Israel!!" after that???
I would like to have any of you all correct me if I am
mistaken in any way.

No arguments from this corner

davo

 

[Shane Roach]

I have always been rather perturbed by the exclusivism of Israel in light of the racial tolerance we are all preached here in the US, and in no small part lectured about and browbeaten about because of the holocaust, but there is a fundamental question here. DO races have a right to have nations?

If you watch the progress of the Muslims since the inception of the religion, they conquor both by the sword and through politics. When in a minority they make model citizens in any nation they inhabit, but as they grow in numbers, and this is something too that isn't getting a lot of airtime on t.v. due to the need for Arab alies and such, but as Muslims grow in numbers in any nation all over the world, the nature of their religion is to try to make an Islaamic state. When they get to be a large enough minority, or a majority, they will resort to violence to finish the job, and have done, and continue to do so the world over. Admitedly, Islaam is not a race, but there is a certain amount of Arabization intrinsic to Islaam as the "proper" language of study for the Koran is Arabic, and there is the pilgrimage to Mecca, focusing the attention of its followers on Arabia.

If you believe races have a right to a nation, then what to do with all the Jews? Certainly not kill them all, no? But they had no nation, having been driven out by succesive waves of foreginers. The final and most total expulsion, I have read, was the Ottoman rule, with its subsequent Islaamic state.

So if the Palestinians live there, the Jews can't. If the Jews live there, the Palestinians can't. The only possibility is both sides have to be held to peace from outside forces, and whose responsibility does that then become?

I tend to be pro-Israel because even if they were trying to take over the entire earth, it seems their methods are more peaceful. Personally, I am just tired of hearing about the middle east. All my life I have been hearing about the Muslims and whatever the tolerance used to be in Islaam anciently, recent history has shown them to be intolerant of other religions and extremely violent.

Finally, a comment. Had a discussion about this on another thread here in the forums and the Palestinians can't go "back" anywhere as they appear to be the descendants of the Philistines. In other words, they were there even before Moses and Joshua.

This conflict is not one that lends itself to simple, one sided analysis. Like I said, my own personal slant on it comes from my interests lying with America, and the majority of the terrorism against the US during my lifetime has been from the Muslims. If that were to change, then my opinion would change accordingly. Perhaps some Palestinian sympathizers would like to ponder that for a while. They demonize the US for selling things to ISrael, but we also finance the entire Arab world buying their oil. How is our buying or selling things a crime? If they feel their governments are not doing a good job, they should reform their own governments, rather than attacking foreign nations.

Once that trend stops I think they will have a solid upper hand on the Israel/Palestine conflict. The funny thing is, I wonder if it will not be interacial and intercultural mingling that eventually brings this era to a close. There are many, many on both sides of this conflict that are sick of the fighting, and the general trend in the world is this shrinkage, and multiculturalism.

 

[Yauming]

That was a terrible mistake on the part of the IDF airforce.

The IDF mistook the USN warship for an Eqyptian warship and attacked it. Remember there was a war on.

There has been a great deal of angry and controversial writings by some of the Liberty crewmen who are understandable furious and, of course, a few anti-jew writers.

Friendly or accidental fire occur all too frequently in wartime and peace. If you can remember the USN accidentaly shot down a civilian Iranian jetliner. And Iraq, during its war against Iran, attacked the USS Stark.

If you can also recall, during WWII, the USAF accidentaly bombed forward troops during the Normandy campaign killing and maiming hundreds of their own GIs.

If you want I can email you the documents regarding the Liberty fiasco.

Cheers,

YM

Originally posted by Fish
Boy, that sure stopped comment on this thread!!
Hard to chant "Go Israel!!" after that???
I would like to have any of you all correct me if I am
mistaken in any way.

 

[Yauming]

Originally posted by Fish
The Jews that settled in Palestine came in great numbers after WWII, and a lot of terrorism was going
on then too. But the terrorists then were Jewish,
killing and bombing the British.
What to do with the millions of displaced Palestinians
that were forced out of their homes is the main problem.
Living in Israel they are second class citizens with no
Fish

Hello Fish,
I think that no one would say that the Israelis are not entirely to blame for the crisis.

But clearly it is hard to remain not sympathetic to the Israelis when they have all these terrorists groups and hostile foreign nations been attacking them since its very inception, by the UN, in 1947. You have all these groups who have vowed to utterly destroy and wipe out Israel. Try negotiating with such people.

Moreover, Arab newspapers regularly print out anti-jewish stories which were similar to the Nazi trash of the Holocast period. And recently, a standard Saudi newspaper actually wrote that the Jews drink human blood in one of their feasts.

It is very hard learning to trust them and negotiate with such people. You might as well think that we should have negotiated with Hitler in 1934.

Cheers,

YM

 

[davo]

Originally posted by Yauming
But clearly it is hard to remain not sympathetic to the Israelis when they have all these terrorists groups and hostile foreign nations been attacking them since its very inception, by the UN, in 1947.

YM, here in lies the problem Israel's "inception" was Palestines oppression, they moved in pushed the them out -this was not godly sanctioned nor just, and they've been paying for it since.

davo

 

[Dave Ulchers]

Originally posted by Yauming
Hitler

Godwin's Law!. Your opponent wins. Thread over!

 

[Yauming]

Originally posted by davo

YM, here in lies the problem Israel's "inception" was Palestines oppression, they moved in pushed the them out -this was not godly sanctioned nor just, and they've been paying for it since.
davo

No I'm sorry but I think you are wrong. IIRC, the Jews purchased (most if not all of) the land of the original state of 1947 Israel. The UN sanctioned the creation of Israel in 1947.

http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF

What did the Arabs nations and the Palestinian nation and the Palestinan do to welcome this creation? They declared war against it. This new Jewish state was very weak. Most of the good military hardware were owned by the Arabs. The Jews nearly lost that war and since then they have been trying to defend themselves against such hostile threats.

I agree that the Israelis have not been just with the Palestinians. They should try to do more reconciliation and stop trying to use their armor to bulldoze their way into refugee camps where the terrorist are hiding. But at the same time, the PLO has to make a big sincere effort in arresting all the main extreme terrorist leaders of the Hamas and Hezbollah factions.

 

[davo]

Originally posted by Yauming
No I'm sorry but I think you are wrong. IIRC, the Jews purchased (most if not all of) the land of the original state of 1947 Israel. The UN sanctioned the creation of Israel in 1947.

Ok, you seem to know a bit about this and I'm interested:

1) So from whom did they buy the Land?
2) Those who sold it, was it theirs to sell?
3) What happened to the people living then in the areas of Land you say Israel purchased?

davo

 

[Yauming]

Originally posted by davo


Ok, you seem to know a bit about this and I'm interested:

1) So from whom did they buy the Land?
2) Those who sold it, was it theirs to sell?
3) What happened to the people living then in the areas of Land you say Israel purchased?

davo

Hi,

I am not too familiar about the detailed history of the creation of Israel. I used the term "IIRC" (if I remember correctly) because its been sometime since I studied it.

I did a quick search over the internet and found these following sites which you can read.

http://www.adl.org/Israel/Record/creation.html

http://www.adl.org/Israel/Record/immigration-to-48.html

http://www.wujs.org.il/activist/features/campaigns/jewish_right_to_a_state.shtml

Of course, you don't have to agree with them.

Cheers,

YM

 

[RKF]

Palestinians can't go "back" anywhere as they appear to be the descendants of the Philistines.

No they are not. They are the descendents of hams son mizairim


The land was theirs to begin with but they were scattered.

Gen 17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession

The problem is they should have done what God told them and take the land and don't give it up.

The fight continues to be between the brothers :

And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou [art] with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.

Gen 16:12 And he will be a wild man; his hand [will be] against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

 

[Shane Roach]

Originally posted by RKF
No they are not. They are the descendents of hams son mizairim

The Philistines were in Canaan. Palestine as a word is derived from the very word that means Philistine. Furthermore, whatever mandate Israel had to destroy all foreigners in Canaan is long since past.

Some of the new posts about the creation of Isael are interesting though. I think the Arab view is easy to see, though, that this purchase under Brittish rule is nothing but an imperialistic act by the west. It won't help things much.