Infallible Authority Of The Church.

[Xeno.of.athens]

No man or succession of men are infallible to think so defies common sense and biblical teachings.

The only one infallible is God/Jesus and to think otherwise is pure non-sense.

If I must weigh your post and its claim against the holy scriptures which record what the Lord' Jesus Christ, said and if I must decide which to follow then I decide for Christ. Can you blame me or accuse me of defying common sense by believing Jesus?

 

[Markie Boy]

The simple state of the RCC today - with pope Francis attacking tradition, and conservative clergy, while promoting James Martin, tells the whole story.

I believe what we do matters, and every tree is known by it's fruit. It's not about fine print details in some book saying what's official or not.

 

[eleos1954]

If I must weigh your post and its claim against the holy scriptures which record what the Lord' Jesus Christ, said and if I must decide which to follow then I decide for Christ. Can you blame me or accuse me of defying common sense by believing Jesus?

Romans 3:23
English Standard Version​

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Nobody is infallible ... except Jesus.

2 Corinthians 5:21

He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.


https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans 3&version=ESV

 

[AlightSeeker]

God doesn't send teachers who come from seminary school. He sends those who have humbled themselves and do not think of themselves as teachers. They know God alone is the teacher. If we do not follow such a man we will follow error. We dont actually need teachers anyway. As John said. We need to keep the word of God that he gave us through the Lord and his apostles. Then God will teach us. We can still learn from each other but I wouldn't follow any man. Man is fallible.

 

[AlightSeeker]

Do not follow teachers. They're mostly blind unfortunately. I see another way in scripture.

 

[Fervent]

Do not follow teachers. They're mostly blind unfortunately. I see another way in scripture.

Is this not an attempt at being a teacher, albeit teaching that teachers are untrustworthy?

 

[AlightSeeker]

Is this not an attempt at being a teacher, albeit teaching that teachers are untrustworthy?

I teach that we dont need teachers, and scripture says the same thing. I teach that we need God's whole word. But I teach that God and his word are the teacher. I dont see myself as a teacher or call myself a teacher just as Jesus said. But I see myself and say that im someone who shines the light of his truth. Forgive me but i dont see the shepherds warning the flock about the unfaithfulness of politics. That's because they don't see it either. In my opinion.

Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one [c]tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Fervent]

I teach that we dont need teachers, and scripture says the same thing. I teach that we need God's whole word. But I teach that God and his word are the teacher. I dont see myself as a teacher or call myself a teacher just as Jesus said. But I see myself and say that im someone who shines the light of his truth. Forgive me but i dont see the shepherds warning the flock about the unfaithfulness of politics. That's because they don't see it either. In my opinion.

Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one [c]tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Considering a teacher is nothing more than...someone who teaches, it doesn't much matter if you call yourself a teacher. If we don't need teachers, we don't need people teaching we don't need teachers. So in teaching that you make yourself a hypocrite.

 

[AlightSeeker]

Considering a teacher is nothing more than...someone who teaches, it doesn't much matter if you call yourself a teacher. If we don't need teachers, we don't need people teaching we don't need teachers. So in teaching that you make yourself a hypocrite.

I follow Jesus command to call no man teacher but Jesus himself.That means I follow no teacher. I follow Jesus who is the teacher as the Lord said. But i guess you think thats not written to us. Ok. Scripture teaches me though, so why can't it do that for others as well? If they were teachers, wouldn't they teach people how following politicians lead us astray from Jesus teaching in Matthew 5-7 and the whole New Testament in fact? Jesus said take no thought for your life, and not to store wealth on earth. Was that command only for jews? Or was it just a suggestion? Do teachers teach these things? Why then does their congregation divide the body with politics? Why do they worry about economics? Why do they slander their leaders and each other? Why are they even trying to run the world at all? Doesn't God do that? Aren't we supposed to run the church only?

In the revelation scripture below, why are their members rich but blind? Why are they naked and poor? Why can only people with an ear hear what the Spirit is saying?

Revelation 3:14 “And to the angel of the church [j]of the Laodiceans write,

‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: 15 “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither [k]cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. 17 Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— 18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten.[l] Therefore be [m]zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

22 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’ ”

Mathew 23:8 But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your [c]Teacher, [d]the Christ, and you are all brethren. 9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10 And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. 11 But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whoever exalts himself will be [e]humbled, and he who humbles himself will be [f]exalted.

1 John 2:26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to [f]deceive you. 27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you [g]will abide in Him.

1 John 14;15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

22 Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”

23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

25 “All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

 

[Ordinary Christian]

I follow Jesus command to call no man teacher but Jesus himself.That means I follow no teacher. I follow Jesus who is the teacher as the Lord said. But i guess you think thats not written to us. Ok. Scripture teaches me though, so why can't it do that for others as well? If they were teachers, wouldn't they teach people how following politicians lead us astray from Jesus teaching in Matthew 5-7 and the whole New Testament in fact? Jesus said take no thought for your life, and not to store wealth on earth. Was that command only for jews? Or was it just a suggestion? Do teachers teach these things? Why then does their congregation divide the body with politics? Why do they worry about economics? Why do they slander their leaders and each other? Why are they even trying to run the world at all? Doesn't God do that? Aren't we supposed to run the church only?

In the revelation scripture below, why are their members rich but blind? Why are they naked and poor? Why can only people with an ear hear what the Spirit is saying?

Revelation 3:14 “And to the angel of the church [j]of the Laodiceans write,

‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: 15 “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither [k]cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. 17 Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— 18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten.[l] Therefore be [m]zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

22 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’ ”

Mathew 23:8 But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your [c]Teacher, [d]the Christ, and you are all brethren. 9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10 And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. 11 But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whoever exalts himself will be [e]humbled, and he who humbles himself will be [f]exalted.

1 John 2:26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to [f]deceive you. 27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you [g]will abide in Him.

1 John 14;15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

22 Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”

23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

25 “All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

Are you still using the Jehovah's Witness bible for your scripture quotes?

 

[Markie Boy]

So in the spirit of bringing us together please.

Ephesians 4:11 does say Christ gave to the church as a gift - apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers. We need good teachers. They are helpful. They are to teach what Jesus and the Apostles taught - no more, no less.

They are not to claim infallibility - none of us are. We all get something wrong. My favorite local teacher and I don't agree on a few points, but we agree Jesus is Lord, and died for our sins, we are to put our trust in Him, and try to live a life accordingly.

I don't think we are to be without teachers. But the teacher is to point us towards Jesus teaching, not their own. So we still have one teacher.

 

[AlightSeeker]

So in the spirit of bringing us together please.

Ephesians 4:11 does say Christ gave to the church as a gift - apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers. We need good teachers. They are helpful. They are to teach what Jesus and the Apostles taught - no more, no less.

They are not to claim infallibility - none of us are. We all get something wrong. My favorite local teacher and I don't agree on a few points, but we agree Jesus is Lord, and died for our sins, we are to put our trust in Him, and try to live a life accordingly.

I don't think we are to be without teachers. But the teacher is to point us towards Jesus teaching, not their own. So we still have one teacher.

I appreciate your motivation. I find it difficult to follow teachers however after seeing how badly their congregations have gone astray. It's like they don't see. Not even you. I think you don't see what I'm seeing. Ok maybe I'm wrong, but i dont believe I am, but it still goes against what I believe so how can I fellowship with that without speaking up? I would be thrown out I think.

 

[AlightSeeker]

She is to be a chaste virgin who obeys her husband. What are we when we slander our leaders or when we are not united but divided into warring political factions? Factions are a work of flesh not fruit of the spirit. See galatians 5. Many of those flesh works are found in politics. Do we slander our own flesh or our leaders? How many scripture can I find that rebukes this?

The church is to look like this in 1 Peter

1 peter 3:3 Wives, likewise, be submissive to your own husbands, that even if some do not obey the word, they, without a word, may be won by the conduct of their wives, 2 when they observe your chaste conduct accompanied by fear. 3 Do not let your adornment be merely outward—arranging the hair, wearing gold, or putting on fine apparel— 4 rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the [a]incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God. 5 For in this manner, in former times, the holy women who trusted in God also adorned themselves, being submissive to their own husbands, 6 as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, whose daughters you are if you do good and are not afraid with any terror.

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the [a]simplicity that is in Christ.


The church is not supposed to look like this James scripture though. Notice they didn't ask God for what they need. LIke us seeking help from politicians. that's unfaithful to the Lord. James emphasized not speaking evil of each other. We see that in politics. The politicians do It themselves. God doesn't fellowship with darkness. There is no lesser of two evils there is only the Lord and the world. Those are the only two options.

James 4:4 Where do [a]wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members? 2 You lust and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and war. [c]Yet you do not have because you do not ask. 3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures. 4 [d]Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. 5 Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, “The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously”?

6 But He gives more grace. Therefore He says:

“God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble.”

Humility Cures Worldliness
7 Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. 8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. 9 Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. 10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.

Do Not Judge a Brother
11 Do not speak evil of one another, brethren. He who speaks evil of a brother and judges his brother, speaks evil of the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. 12 There is one [e]Lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy. Who[f] are you to judge [g]another?

 

[AlightSeeker]

James 5:9 Don’t grumble against one another, brothers and sisters, or you will be judged. The Judge is standing at the door!

 

[AlightSeeker]

We go to church on Sunday and love each other but then go out in the world into our warring political factions. Is that what God wants? I just can't believe no one sees this. No one preaches on it. My Bible teaches me better than they can I think.

James 3:9 With it we bless our God and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the [f]similitude of God. 10 Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be so. 11 Does a spring send forth fresh water and bitter from the same opening? 12 Can a fig tree, my brethren, bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? [g]Thus no spring yields both salt water and fresh.

Heavenly Versus Demonic Wisdom
13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter envy and [h]self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. 15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. 16 For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there. 17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. 18 Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.

 

[BobRyan]

The Church has authority from God to teach regarding faith and morals, and in her teaching she is preserved from error by the special guidance of the Holy Ghost.

not true.

Acts 20:29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things to draw away the disciples after them. 31 Therefore, be on the alert,

>>apostasy was to arise from WITHIN the church according to Acts 20

1 Tim 1:3 Just as I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, to remain on at Ephesus so that you would instruct certain people not to teach strange doctrines, 4 nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to useless speculation rather than advance the plan of God, which is by faith, so I urge you now. 5 But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from a sincere faith. 6 Some people have strayed from these things and have turned aside to fruitless discussion, 7 wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions.

18 This command I entrust to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you fight the good fight, 19 keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith. 20 Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, so that they will be taught not to blaspheme.

>>Blasphemers arise from within the church - and are handed over to satan - but not "exterminated" like Lateran IV commanded.

3 John 1
9 I wrote something to the church; but Diotrephes, who loves to be first among them, does not accept what we say. 10 For this reason, if I come, I will call attention to his deeds which he does, unjustly accusing us (Apostles) with malicious words; and not satisfied with this, he himself does not receive the brothers either, and he forbids those who want to do so and puts them out of the church.

>>> "The church" casting out those who believe the Apostles's teaching --

The church going into apostasy 2 Thess 2 -

2 Thess 2: Now we ask you, brothers and sisters, regarding the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit, or a message, or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 No one is to deceive you in any way! For it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, a

The prerogative of infallibility is clearly deduced

"deduced" by "some" via "Extreme inference" is not the same as "taught by the writer"

So then Paul himself subject to "sola scriptura testing"

"They studied the scriptures daily TO SEE IF those things taught by the apostle Paul - WERE SO" Acts 17:11

Gal 1:6-9 "Though WE (Apostles) or an ANGEL from HEAVEN should teach a different doctrine a different gospel other than has been taught - let him be accursed!" - Gal 1:6-9

>>-- rank means nothing - it is the pure truth , pure doctrine that matters according to the Apostle Paul in Gal 1.

she is, of course, essentially unerring in her doctrine

History shows the opposite is true such that even Popes accuse fellow popes of being "antichrist" as history shows.

That the Church was infallible in the Apostolic age is denied by no Christian

Until we read the texts above and see the many errors that they were facing - as coming from within the church of the first century -

Jude 1:
3 Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith that was once for all time handed down to the saints. 4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into indecent behavior and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.


8 Yet in the same way these people also, dreaming, defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak abusively of angelic majesties. 9 But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him an abusive judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” 10 But these people disparage all the things that they do not understand; and all the things that they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed. 11 Woe to them! For they have gone the way of Cain, and for pay they have given themselves up to the error of Balaam, and perished in the rebellion of Korah. 12 These are the ones who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, like shepherds caring only for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted; 13 wild waves of the sea, churning up their own shameful deeds like dirty foam; wandering stars, for whom the gloom of darkness has been reserved forever.

>> shepherds in the church teaching false doctrine vs 12

... 16 These are grumblers, finding fault, following after their own lusts; they speak arrogantly, flattering people for the sake of gaining an advantage.


Titus 1:
7 For the overseer (Elder) must be beyond reproach as God’s steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not overindulging in wine, not a bully, not greedy for money, 8 but hospitable, loving what is good, self-controlled, righteous, holy, disciplined, 9 holding firmly the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict it.

10 For there are many rebellious people, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, 11 who must be silenced because they are upsetting whole families, teaching things they should not teach for the sake of dishonest gain.



Instead of NO false doctrine being taught - what we see is tons of false doctrine being taught in the first century church and a great struggle to try and keep it from getting out of hand. How much more so when the apostles themselves had died off.


=============================

The NT writers present the NT age as one of strife and contention and false doctrine arising from WITHIN the church

=========================================

Errors in the Catholic Church over time
1. Communion with the dead
Prayers to the dead
Prayers for the dead
Requests made of the dead

Indulgences for the dead
Purgatory

Its own claims to have edited the commandments of God - in the words of its own commentary on the Baltimore Catechism after Vatican II

Rites and practices "borrowed from paganism" in the words of its own Catholic Historians regarding changes made after the time of Constantine.

The command to "exterminate heretics" in its own Lateran IV - CANON 3.

 

[Studyman]

The Church has authority from God to teach regarding faith and morals, and in her teaching she is preserved from error by the special guidance of the Holy Ghost.

The prerogative of infallibility is clearly deduced from the attributes of the Church: the Church is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic. Preaching the same creed everywhere and at all times; teaching holiness and truth, she is, of course, essentially unerring in her doctrine; for what is one, holy or unchangeable must be infallibly true.

That the Church was infallible in the Apostolic age is denied by no Christian. We never question the truth of the Apostles' declarations;(See Gal. 4:14; 1Thess. 2: 13.) they were, in fact, the only authority in the Church for the first century. The New Testament was not completed till the close of the first century. There is no just ground for denying to the Apostolic teachers of the twenty-first century in which we live a prerogative clearly possessed by those of the first, especially as the Divine Word nowhere intimates that this unerring guidance was to die with the Apostles. On the contrary, as the Apostles transmitted to their successors their power to preach, to baptize, to ordain, to confirm, etc., they must also have handed down to them the no less essential gift of infallibility. [Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of Our Fathers]

There is no doubt that the Catholic Church is the mother of Mainstream Christianity, and that most all religious businesses and sects, who come in Christ's Name, are founded in large part, on Catholic philosophy. They have adopted her marketing strategy. They observe her high days, and they observe her sabbaths.

"Most Christians assume that Sunday is the biblically approved day of worship. The Catholic Church protests that it transferred Christian worship from the biblical Sabbath (Saturday) to Sunday, and that to try to argue that the change was made in the Bible is both dishonest and a denial of Catholic authority. If Protestantism wants to base its teachings only on the Bible, it should worship on Saturday.” — Rome’s Challenge immaculateheart.com/maryonline Dec 2003.

“Is not every Christian obliged to sanctify Sunday and to abstain on that day from unnecessary servile work? Is not the observance of this law among the most prominent of our sacred duties? But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.” — James Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of Our Fathers

So I agree that the religious sect of the Catholic, is the adopted authority for most all organized religions of this world, who call Jesus Lord, Lord, that I was born into.

"It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment "of the Catholic Church."
—Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, NJ ‘News’ on March 18, 1903.


"Question: Which is the Sabbath day?
Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
Answer: We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.
—Rev. Peter Geiermann C.SS.R., The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50

So it is clear that the religious corporation of the Catholic Church, and her daughters, are the most influential, wealthy and most powerful religious sects and businesses ever to exist on planet earth.

"But since Saturday, not Sunday, is specified in the Bible, isn't it curious that non-Catholics who profess to take their religion directly from the Bible and not the Church, observe Sunday instead of Saturday? Yes, of course, it is inconsistent; but this change was made about fifteen centuries before Protestantism was born, and by that time the custom was universally observed.

They have continued the custom, even though it rests upon the authority of the Catholic Church and not upon an explicit text in the Bible. That observance remains as a reminder of the Mother Church from which the non-Catholic sects broke away - like a boy running away from home but still carrying in his pocket a picture of his mother or a lock of her hair."
—The Faith of Millions

That Catholic Popes promote the teaching that this authority came from God, is nothing new. The Pharisees also believed their "Teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of men" were from the authority of God. And the Jesus "of the Bible" was born into this religion. Yet this Jesus, didn't abandon God's instruction in righteousness to follow their religion, even though it existed in the world God placed HIM in..


And of a truth, Pharoah was given authority over Israel "By God", and Job also was influenced by a power that was given Authority "by God". And even the serpent in the garden, was given authority to deceive Eve, "by God".

John 19: 10 Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not "that I have power" to crucify thee, and have power to release thee? 11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

So there is no doubt in my mind that God gave Constantine and the RCC the power to do what they did.

The Jesus of the bible tells me, "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many."

Given that God has prophesied already of this world's religions and has warned us of "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord, but are deceivers, it seems foolish to abandon the Holy Scriptures, or the God who inspired them, to adopt the religious philosophies or men, even if ALL of Jerusalem are walking in them, or ALL of America, or ALL of the civilized world.

For this reason, I advocate that we Come out of her, "that ye be not partakers of her sins/ transgressions". The "her" being this world's religions who "Transgress God's Commandments by their man-made traditions".

 

[Ordinary Christian]

There is no doubt that the Catholic Church is the mother of Mainstream Christianity, and that most all religious businesses and sects, who come in Christ's Name, are founded in large part, on Catholic philosophy. They have adopted her marketing strategy. They observe her high days, and they observe her sabbaths.

"Most Christians assume that Sunday is the biblically approved day of worship. The Catholic Church protests that it transferred Christian worship from the biblical Sabbath (Saturday) to Sunday, and that to try to argue that the change was made in the Bible is both dishonest and a denial of Catholic authority. If Protestantism wants to base its teachings only on the Bible, it should worship on Saturday.” — Rome’s Challenge immaculateheart.com/maryonline Dec 2003.

“Is not every Christian obliged to sanctify Sunday and to abstain on that day from unnecessary servile work? Is not the observance of this law among the most prominent of our sacred duties? But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.” — James Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of Our Fathers

So I agree that the religious sect of the Catholic, is the adopted authority for most all organized religions of this world, who call Jesus Lord, Lord, that I was born into.

"It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment "of the Catholic Church."
—Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, NJ ‘News’ on March 18, 1903.


"Question: Which is the Sabbath day?
Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
Answer: We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.
—Rev. Peter Geiermann C.SS.R., The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50

So it is clear that the religious corporation of the Catholic Church, and her daughters, are the most influential, wealthy and most powerful religious sects and businesses ever to exist on planet earth.

"But since Saturday, not Sunday, is specified in the Bible, isn't it curious that non-Catholics who profess to take their religion directly from the Bible and not the Church, observe Sunday instead of Saturday? Yes, of course, it is inconsistent; but this change was made about fifteen centuries before Protestantism was born, and by that time the custom was universally observed.

They have continued the custom, even though it rests upon the authority of the Catholic Church and not upon an explicit text in the Bible. That observance remains as a reminder of the Mother Church from which the non-Catholic sects broke away - like a boy running away from home but still carrying in his pocket a picture of his mother or a lock of her hair."
—The Faith of Millions

That Catholic Popes promote the teaching that this authority came from God, is nothing new. The Pharisees also believed their "Teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of men" were from the authority of God. And the Jesus "of the Bible" was born into this religion. Yet this Jesus, didn't abandon God's instruction in righteousness to follow their religion, even though it existed in the world God placed HIM in..


And of a truth, Pharoah was given authority over Israel "By God", and Job also was influenced by a power that was given Authority "by God". And even the serpent in the garden, was given authority to deceive Eve, "by God".

John 19: 10 Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not "that I have power" to crucify thee, and have power to release thee? 11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

So there is no doubt in my mind that God gave Constantine and the RCC the power to do what they did.

The Jesus of the bible tells me, "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many."

Given that God has prophesied already of this world's religions and has warned us of "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord, but are deceivers, it seems foolish to abandon the Holy Scriptures, or the God who inspired them, to adopt the religious philosophies or men, even if ALL of Jerusalem are walking in them, or ALL of America, or ALL of the civilized world.

For this reason, I advocate that we Come out of her, "that ye be not partakers of her sins/ transgressions". The "her" being this world's religions who "Transgress God's Commandments by their man-made traditions".

This really isn't the place to proselytize sabbatarianism.

 

[Studyman]

This really isn't the place to proselytize sabbatarianism.

I was speaking to the religious authority of the Catholic Church. Isn't that what this Thread was about? “Is not every Christian obliged to sanctify Sunday and to abstain on that day from unnecessary servile work? "Is not the observance of this law" among the most prominent of our sacred duties?

How is this "proselytizing sabbatarianism"? Are you saying the Catholic religion promotes "sabbatarianism"?

 

[Ordinary Christian]

I was speaking to the religious authority of the Catholic Church. Isn't that what this Thread was about? “Is not every Christian obliged to sanctify Sunday and to abstain on that day from unnecessary servile work? "Is not the observance of this law" among the most prominent of our sacred duties?

How is this "proselytizing sabbatarianism"? Are you saying the Catholic religion promotes "sabbatarianism"?

Sorry it sounded like you were doing the Christians should be observing the Saturday sabbath thing. As for your question I've never come across a Catholic who put any big emphasis on Sunday. One thing I admire about Catholicism is mass is held every day of the week. And many Catholics go to church to worship several days a week all year long.