Indwelling of the Spirit?

Chris V++

Associate Member
Site Supporter
Mar 16, 2018
1,629
1,440
Dela Where?
Visit site
✟675,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
'When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money ' Acts 8: 18
Years ago I heard a radio pastor state that Acts 8:18 should be interpreted that an actual Apostle had to lay on hands to give over the Spirit, and nowhere is it written that the Spirit was transferable. In other words, a recipient of the Spirit received from an Apostle laying on of hands couldn't then transfer the Spirit that to a third party. This pastor stated the apostles (by the indwelt Spirit) were able to perform miracles, speak in different languages etc., and that today there is no actual Spirit indwelling or possessing the believer.

Same pastor also had what seems like an unconventional interpretation of this scripture:
'Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.' Acts 2:38

His interpretation was that the 'gift' of the Holy Spirit is 'salvation,' and that the Holy Spirit isn't the 'gift.'
He backed up this position with:
' For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God..." Ephesians 2:8
His point was that the 'salvation' is the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Then today I heard a popular radio pastor state there is a difference between being 'filled with the Spirit' and the Spirit dwelling within. You can have the an indwelling of the Holy Spirit but at the same time not be filled with the Spirit.

I know at times I can 'feel' the Spirit and especially in worship service. I also know the conscience convicts. I've heard pastors say that conviction of conscience is evidence of the indwelling spirit. I don't mean to start a debate. Thanks for looking.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Siddhi Koli

com7fy8

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2013
13,715
6,138
Massachusetts
✟586,260.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
My opinion Chris, is that various teachings about these matters are not necessarily based on actual Bible quotes which say such things. But ones are giving different interpretations or what they are sure God has simply told them.
Years ago I heard a radio pastor state that Acts 8:18 should be interpreted that an actual Apostle had to lay on hands to give over the Spirit, and nowhere is it written that the Spirit was transferable. In other words, a recipient of the Spirit received from an Apostle laying on of hands couldn't then transfer the Spirit that to a third party.
It was the man who perceived that the Holy Spirit was given by laying on of hands. The issue is if he perceived correctly or not. In the book of Acts, in a number of cases, an apostle laid hands on someone.
This pastor stated the apostles (by the indwelt Spirit) were able to perform miracles, speak in different languages etc., and that today there is no actual Spirit indwelling or possessing the believer.
Well, how about Romans 5:5?

Same pastor also had what seems like an unconventional interpretation of this scripture:
'Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.' Acts 2:38
This scripture is used by oneness pentecostal people. But I don't think this pastor is teaching what is mainline oneness pentecostal doctrine.

His interpretation was that the 'gift' of the Holy Spirit is 'salvation,' and that the Holy Spirit isn't the 'gift.'
I understand that the Holy Spirit prepares a person for salvation, then changes the person's heart to trust in Jesus, then lives in the person while changing the person into the likeness of Jesus > consider 2 Corinthians 3:17-18, please < this, I would say, takes the Holy Spirit living in a person :) Please also see Galatians 4:19.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Siddhi Koli
Upvote 0

Francis Drake

Returning adventurer.
Apr 14, 2013
4,000
2,508
✟184,952.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
UK-Independence-Party
Its far simpler than you think.

Luke11v11And which father among you, if the son will ask for a fish, and instead of a fish, will give to him a serpent? 12Or also if he will ask for an egg, will he give to him a scorpion? 13Therefore if you, being evil, know to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the Father who is in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those asking Him!”

There you have it. It is the desire of God the Father that his children are filled with his Holy Spirit, but a desire and request also has to come from the recipient.
 
Upvote 0

Danoh

Newbie
Oct 11, 2011
3,064
310
✟40,528.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Odd thing about "Believers."

You name the "Believer" - be it a convert to Buddhism; Mormonism; Christianity; and or every other "ism" and or "ist" out there - not long after each converts, they soon begin to attribute to their faith's version of "leading" what had been before there conversion merely common sense, or a hunch, or an emotion, or a superstition, or one imagining or another, and so on.

Few of them bothering to pause to reflect on how often all this that they now attribute to a "leading" of some kind, is still just as often as off as it had been before their conversion.

"Believers?"

More like people in need of some sort of a sense of validation "from God."

1 Corinthians 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant. 12:2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.

Obviously, man is basically pagan.

Obviously, a mind renewal is in order.

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

How? By what means?

By the same manner one was used to before one's conversion?

Via hopes, and hunches, and feelings, and imaginings, and all the rest of that?

Nope.

Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

How then, is one to rightly know "the will of God"?

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

But that was then; what about now?

How is one to come to...

Philippians 4:6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Colossians 3:15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.

Okay, but how? By what means?

Simple...

3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

The Word of Christ is how.

Why?

Because....

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

In memory of Rom. 5:6-8 - in each our stead.
 
Upvote 0

Chris V++

Associate Member
Site Supporter
Mar 16, 2018
1,629
1,440
Dela Where?
Visit site
✟675,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Thanks com7fy8. I looked up the verses:
5 and hope putteth not to shame; because the love of God hath been shed abroad in our hearts
through the Holy Spirit which was given unto us.Romans 5:5

17 Now the Lord is the Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, [there] is liberty.
18 But we all, with unveiled face beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are
transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord the Spirit. 2Corinthians 3 17:18

19 My little children, of whom I am again in travail until Christ be formed in you-- Galatians 4:19

I understand that the Holy Spirit prepares a person for salvation, then changes the person's heart to trust in Jesus, then lives in the person while changing the person into the likeness of Jesus
Thanks for your take on the subject. The quotes scriptures seem to say that he Spirit changes us to be more the image of Christ or more Christ-like, but doesn't to me expressly demonstrate an indwelling as I'm understanding indwelling from Acts. . Thanks again for responding.
 
Upvote 0

Presbyterian Continuist

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Mar 28, 2005
21,813
10,794
76
Christchurch New Zealand
Visit site
✟832,604.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
In the three events where the Holy Spirit fell on a group of believers, no one laid hands on them at all. As the folks received the Gospel and believed it, the Holy Spirit came and filled them and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. There is only one event (that I can remember) where Peter and John went to Samaria and laid hands on those who believed and they were filled with the Spirit. If someone laid hands on Paul for him to receive the Holy Spirit, it must have been Ananias, and he wasn't an Apostle.

It is very interesting how some of these pastors play God and exercise authority of doctrine that is not found through the New Testament. If it was mandatory that an Apostle had to lay hands on someone to receive the Holy Spirit, then no one could have received the Holy Spirit after the last Apostle died. But we know that many through the centuries have been filled with the Spirit, spoken in tongues, prophesied, ministered healings and conducted other signs and wonders that only a Spirit-filled person could do.

Who do these pelican pastors think they are? They appear to me to be jumped up, puffed up peacocks who think they speak for God, when God might not even know them!

God is not limited in how He wants to minister to and bless someone. He is sovereign and if He wants to fill someone with the Spirit without anyone laying hands on him, He will; and if He decides that another person need to have hands laid on him, He will do it that way as well. Just because some arrogant pastor says that God can do something only one way, doesn't mean that God has to comply with that man.

Who are these men that they can counsel God?

"Who can fathom the Spirit of the LORD, or instruct the LORD as his counselor? New Living Translation Who is able to advise the Spirit of the LORD? Who knows enough to give him advice or teach him? English Standard Version Who has measured the Spirit of the LORD, or what man shows him his counsel? (Isaiah 40:13).

"To God belong wisdom and power; counsel and understanding are his" (Job 12:13).

"Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?" (Romans 11:34).

"Do you listen in on God's council? Do you have a monopoly on wisdom?" (Job 15:8).
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Francis Drake
Upvote 0

Danoh

Newbie
Oct 11, 2011
3,064
310
✟40,528.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
The change is through The Word.

Through Its descriptions of what God is doing through His Son in the Believer.

And through the attitudes and behaviours described in The Word.

As the Believer reads about those three in The Word, the Spirit renews his mind.

Then, as the Believer lives out this renewed mind, his outward man is transformed to that of someone reflecting the glory of God to the world through said Believer.

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; 2:16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

This here...

2 Corinthians 4:17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;

Works through this focus here...

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Where do we find that?

In His Word...which is like a mirror reflecting back to us an image of who we are in Christ...

2 Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the LORD.

Rom. 5:6-8.
 
Upvote 0

Chris V++

Associate Member
Site Supporter
Mar 16, 2018
1,629
1,440
Dela Where?
Visit site
✟675,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Luke11v11And which father among you, if the son will ask for a fish, and instead of a fish, will give to him a serpent? 12Or also if he will ask for an egg, will he give to him a scorpion? 13Therefore if you, being evil, know to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the Father who is in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those asking Him!”
Thank you. I will study this further. This seems like my cue to search and check the various translations. :)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Danoh

Newbie
Oct 11, 2011
3,064
310
✟40,528.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
So the indwelling is the word of Christ? That idea is very new to me. Thank you!

You have the Godhead resident in you, Romans 8 - all Three are described interchangeably in that chapter.

Now, as you store up His Word in you through time in His Word, and believe it, and live out, or manifest this salvation He placed in you, He begins to transform your outer man to an outward image of Christ in you.

Or as the Apostle Paul put that...

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. 2:14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings: 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; 2:16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

For that has been God's intent in your salvation, to begin with - this here...

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Rom. 5: 6-8.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Chris V++

Associate Member
Site Supporter
Mar 16, 2018
1,629
1,440
Dela Where?
Visit site
✟675,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
God is not limited in how He wants to minister to and bless someone. He is sovereign and if He wants to fill someone with the Spirit without anyone laying hands on him, He will; and if He decides that another person need to have hands laid on him, He will do it that way as well.
Very true, thank you!
 
Upvote 0

Chris V++

Associate Member
Site Supporter
Mar 16, 2018
1,629
1,440
Dela Where?
Visit site
✟675,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
You have the Godhead resident in you, Romans 8 - all Three are described interchangeably in that chapter

Thanks! Romans 8 does seem to speak directly to indwelling and not specifically in context of laying on of the hands of the Apostles.


8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
 
Upvote 0

Francis Drake

Returning adventurer.
Apr 14, 2013
4,000
2,508
✟184,952.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
UK-Independence-Party
So the indwelling is the word of Christ? That idea is very new to me. Thank you!

Contrary to what is taught and most Christians believe, the Word, (Grk- Logos)is not your bible.

John1v1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was in the beginning with God. 3All things came into being through Him, and without Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being. 4In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5And the Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

Read the above, and if you believe that "the word" refers to the scriptures or your bible, then you have made your bible to be the God of all creation who made the planets and Adam etc.
If you think a book has that power............?

Who at creation was with God, and was also God other than Christ himself?

If you read the rest of John1 you will see very clearly that God as Christ, not the scriptures, is the word of God.
 
Upvote 0

Chris V++

Associate Member
Site Supporter
Mar 16, 2018
1,629
1,440
Dela Where?
Visit site
✟675,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Contrary to what is taught and most Christians believe, the Word, (Grk- Logos)is not your bible.

John1v1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was in the beginning with God. 3All things came into being through Him, and without Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being. 4In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5And the Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

Read the above, and if you believe that "the word" refers to the scriptures or your bible, then you have made your bible to be the God of all creation who made the planets and Adam etc.
If you think a book has that power............?

Who at creation was with God, and was also God other than Christ himself?

If you read the rest of John1 you will see very clearly that God as Christ, not the scriptures, is the word of God.

This is very interesting FD. I was meaning to bring up this verse as well. Just a few weeks ago I came across quote about this exact verse on a secular forum. I don't know if the lady is a Christian but she is a native Greek. Here's what she sais about the word 'word' as it's translated into English:


"This is the first verse of the prologue of the Gospel of John
Εν αρχή ην ο λόγος και ο λόγος ην προς τον Θεόν και ο Θεός ην ο λόγος.
Translation: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word is God.
That is the official translation but it is all wrong and it is not accurate either. It doesn't make any sense ( at least for those who understand Greek language).

And here is why.

The word λογος has a dual meaning in Greek language. It means speech language-talking but it also means reason-logic. Mostly means logic ( logos---> logic). The official translation translates the word λογος with the word "word" but this is a wrong translation because the word for "word' is λέξη ( lexi ) and not λόγος. ( do you still follow? )

Pay attention now.

Put aside the religious context from this phrase, ( as you might not be a christian or religious at all) and here is what this phrase actually means according to the words that were used to syntax it..

In the beginning is the speech- the reason- the logic ( speaking is a product of having the ability to think- these two go together in the same word in Greek language) , and the speech goes towards god - which if you are not religious is the nature, the thing that is above beyond and around you and so the things that you know and understand with your reason/logic and the nature is what makes /creates the reason that makes you able to speak.

The reason and as consequence the ability that humans have to speak, works in order to express what they see around them.

You can't change the way you express verbally something if you don't change this something. If this something depends on the nature and you try to change it by just using differently the words, then what you say will not make any sense will not have any logic will not have logos- logiki. It will be incomprehensible, gibberish."
- the source is a post from a native Greek speaker from a secular forum. (I don't know if I should link that forum thread. I never asked for permission to quote her.)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Phil 1:21

Well-Known Member
Apr 3, 2017
5,869
4,399
United States
✟144,842.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
'When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money ' Acts 8: 18
Years ago I heard a radio pastor state that Acts 8:18 should be interpreted that an actual Apostle had to lay on hands to give over the Spirit, and nowhere is it written that the Spirit was transferable. In other words, a recipient of the Spirit received from an Apostle laying on of hands couldn't then transfer the Spirit that to a third party. This pastor stated the apostles (by the indwelt Spirit) were able to perform miracles, speak in different languages etc., and that today there is no actual Spirit indwelling or possessing the believer.

Same pastor also had what seems like an unconventional interpretation of this scripture:
'Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.' Acts 2:38

His interpretation was that the 'gift' of the Holy Spirit is 'salvation,' and that the Holy Spirit isn't the 'gift.'
He backed up this position with:
' For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God..." Ephesians 2:8
His point was that the 'salvation' is the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Then today I heard a popular radio pastor state there is a difference between being 'filled with the Spirit' and the Spirit dwelling within. You can have the an indwelling of the Holy Spirit but at the same time not be filled with the Spirit.

I know at times I can 'feel' the Spirit and especially in worship service. I also know the conscience convicts. I've heard pastors say that conviction of conscience is evidence of the indwelling spirit. I don't mean to start a debate. Thanks for looking.
If my pastor told me he the Holy Spirit didn't dwell within him, I'd pray for him and find a new church.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Chris V++

Associate Member
Site Supporter
Mar 16, 2018
1,629
1,440
Dela Where?
Visit site
✟675,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
If my pastor told me he the Holy Spirit didn't dwell within him, I'd pray for him and find a new church.
I never did join his church, although I attended and met with him. I had been listening to him on the radio for months shortly after I became a Christian. He seemed like a solid fundamentalist but appears maybe split too many hairs. He expected me to get re -baptized. His argument was that salvation happened at baptism and my baptism- by- choice was a baptism of 'repentance' like the baptism John was preaching and performing when Christ was still alive. The issue he had with me was I already believed I was 'saved' after my new born experience and that salvation was the gift of the Holy Spirit given at baptism. He said that 'new born' experience was just a sort of catharsis connected with repentance. His argument was that a lot of the early Christians who were baptized by John had to be re baptized. His church also forbade the use of musical instruments since they were never 'authorized' in the NT.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Phil 1:21
Upvote 0

com7fy8

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2013
13,715
6,138
Massachusetts
✟586,260.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
The quotes scriptures seem to say that he Spirit changes us to be more the image of Christ or more Christ-like, but doesn't to me expressly demonstrate an indwelling as I'm understanding indwelling from Acts. .
I consider > that if the Holy Spirit changes us to be like Jesus, the Holy Spirit is dwelling in us in order to keep us being like Jesus in our hearts.

Also, we have >

"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirt, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)

In order for us to be gentle and quiet in spirit, in our hearts, we need how the Holy Spirit in our hearts, dwelling here, makes us gentle and quiet and keeps us so. And this makes us enjoyable to God, so He can make Himself at home in our hearts.
 
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟203,785.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
'When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money ' Acts 8: 18
Years ago I heard a radio pastor state that Acts 8:18 should be interpreted that an actual Apostle had to lay on hands to give over the Spirit, and nowhere is it written that the Spirit was transferable. In other words, a recipient of the Spirit received from an Apostle laying on of hands couldn't then transfer the Spirit that to a third party. This pastor stated the apostles (by the indwelt Spirit) were able to perform miracles, speak in different languages etc., and that today there is no actual Spirit indwelling or possessing the believer.

Same pastor also had what seems like an unconventional interpretation of this scripture:
'Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.' Acts 2:38

His interpretation was that the 'gift' of the Holy Spirit is 'salvation,' and that the Holy Spirit isn't the 'gift.'
He backed up this position with:
' For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God..." Ephesians 2:8
His point was that the 'salvation' is the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Then today I heard a popular radio pastor state there is a difference between being 'filled with the Spirit' and the Spirit dwelling within. You can have the an indwelling of the Holy Spirit but at the same time not be filled with the Spirit.

I know at times I can 'feel' the Spirit and especially in worship service. I also know the conscience convicts. I've heard pastors say that conviction of conscience is evidence of the indwelling spirit. I don't mean to start a debate. Thanks for looking.

My advice to you is to spend less time listening to radio and TV preachers and dig into the Word of God for yourself.

1 Corinthians 12:13..........
“For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.”

Romans 8:9..............
“You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.”

What is Paul saying??? He is clearly teaching us that we receive the Holy Spirit the moment we receive Jesus Christ as our Savior.

Eph. 1:13-14.........
“Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.”

These three passages make it clear that the Holy Spirit is received at the moment of salvation. Paul could not say that we all were baptized by one Spirit and all given one Spirit to drink if not all of the Corinthian believers possessed the Holy Spirit.

Romans 8:9 is even stronger, stating that if a person does not have the Spirit, he does not belong to Christ. Therefore, the possession of the Spirit is an identifying factor of the possession of salvation. Further, the Holy Spirit could not be the “seal of salvation” (Ephesians 1:13-14) if He is not received at the moment of salvation. Many scriptures make it abundantly clear that our salvation is secured the moment we receive Christ as Savior.
When / How do we receive the Holy Spirit?
 
Upvote 0

Danoh

Newbie
Oct 11, 2011
3,064
310
✟40,528.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Someone once formed a phrase out of the word Bible - Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth.

In this, one of the various assertions put forth by Romans 5 is the eternal security given the Believer by the Grace of God in His Son's full payment for sin at the Cross.

Because the Believer now has peace with God - as far as God is concerned.

Why?

Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

The Believer now has at-one-ment with God. He or she is now one with Him in His Son.

He or she is now saved from the wrath of God - not through the Believer's life, but through the Son's!

Amazing Grace, indeed!

Romans 6-8 then address various issues centured around the core issue of living under Grace as a son of God in His Son.

It starts that off with the issue of seeing how that given the fact that while you were yet a sinner Christ died for you, and how that upon your having trusted in His death for your sin; you were right then identified by the Spirit as one who has died Christ's death with Him; as one who was buried with Him; and as one who has risen in His newness of life with Him, and are now saved by His life - does this mean that now that you have eternal life, you can live anyway you want?

Its answer?

An emphatic "No!"

The clear implication of Romans 6-8 being that the Spirit's leading and or control in such matters is not automatic.

The clear implication being that the new Believer begins a life-long mind renewal process that obviously, the written Word has a chief role in.

The result being that those three chapters are written towards instruction in said righteousness as to how to Live under Grace.

Romans 12-16 then go into instruction in righteousness centered on the issue of how said mind renewal works through the written Word where learning how to Serve under Grace is concerned.

Obvious throughout is the need to keep one's nose in the written Word, the Spirit inspired those men to write.

Obvious throughout is that the Spirit works in the Believer through His Word resident in the Believer (through the Believer's having invested time in His Word).

Obvious throughout is that the Spirit renews the Believer's mind through His Word.

And that as and when, the Believer walks in said written Word by faith, he or she is walking in the Spirit.

He or she is walking in (an understanding through His Word...of what) the Spirit (would have him or her properly understand and walk in).

That is what walking in the Spirit refers to - to walking in an understanding of His written Word.

It refers to the Believer's having been INSTRUCTED in righteousness and how that works this side of the Cross.

Anything else is vain, or devoid of any real understanding of how God actually works in the Believer and is no better off then the lost praying on Sunday during a half-time that "God help" their "team to win" some sporting event.

Anything else is pagan; is basically idolatry.

Ephesians 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: 4:19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ; 4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Being renewed in the spirit of your mind is the issue.

The spirit of your mind refers to your overall outlook - to where you look at things from in general.

And having been raised in this fallen body in this fallen world; our minds and emotions and all the rest are apt to one thing only - to following the course of this world.

Which is why Believer's confuse "good" with the written Words view of "righteousness."

The issue then, is the issue of the need to constantly be after being just a bit more renewed in one's overall perspective to where the Believer's perspective is that of the Spirit's, as revealed by Him in His written Word.

Note how that even the Lord's earthly parents had had to be brought up to speed by that wonderously precious twelve year old...

Luke 2:49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business? 2:50 And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.

Note also, however, how that even that Wondrous Child had had to continue His Own intake and growing in an understanding of the things of the Father...

Luke 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

It is in His written Word that the Believer who invests time in His written Word learns "from Jesus" what it is the Believer is to put off, and what it is the Believer is to put on.

The Believer being a New Creature in Christ, it is the written Word that now instructs the Believer in the knowledge of Him that created him in His Son, the moment the Believer believed that Christ died for his or her sin.

Note how that these passages are all INSTRUCTION IN righteousness...and its source - the written Word.

Colossians 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

The acting on of which becomes "a cake walk" for the Believer who decides - in any moment - to look at all such issues through the lens of - "in memory of Romans 5: 6-8 - in each our stead!"

Try looking, say, at someone's having offended you - try looking at it and or them - "in memory of Romans 5: 6-8 - in EACH our STEAD..."

Try looking at all issues in light of that understanding there, in Romans 5: 6-8.

God's viewpoint.

Do that...

And you'll be walking - in Him.

You'll be walking in - the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

Rom. 5: 6-8.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Major1
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Chris V++

Associate Member
Site Supporter
Mar 16, 2018
1,629
1,440
Dela Where?
Visit site
✟675,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond!

"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)
In order for us to be gentle and quiet in spirit, in our hearts, we need how the Holy Spirit in our hearts, dwelling here, makes us gentle and quiet and keeps us so. And this makes us enjoyable to God, so He can make Himself at home in our hearts

Thanks com7fy8. Is the ' quiet spirit' in 1 Peter referring to the Holy Spirit? I'm not arguing. I can understand how God finds a gentle and quiet spirit precious, I'm just not sure if the gentle spirit in this verse is more a description of our disposition.

1 Corinthians 12:13..........
“For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.”

Romans 8:9..............
“You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.”

What is Paul saying??? He is clearly teaching us that we receive the Holy Spirit the moment we receive Jesus Christ as our Savior.
Thanks I do see Romans 8:9 does expressly state the Spirit of God does indwell the believer, insofar as 'lives in you' is in the physical sense.
Reminds me of 1 Cor 6:19 " Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God?"

You're right that I listen to too many evangelists. I drive a lot for work and have xms Sat radio so get to hear 5 sermons a day plus a lot of praise music. Too many sermons can be the opposite of uplifting when the messages are intended to reprove. A lot of times you end up feeling guilty.


The spirit of your mind refers to your overall outlook - to where you look at things from in general.
Try looking at all issues in light of that understanding there, in Romans 5: 6-8.
God's viewpoint.
Do that...
And you'll be walking - in Him.
You'll be walking in - the Spirit.
This is more readily understandable to me. Is it me or is your message a little different. to paraphrase, have a Christ like outlook as revealed in the Word and you'll be 'walking in the Spirit. '


Thanks again everyone.
 
Upvote 0