Incel commits murder and shares pictures on social media

[Radagast]

Usage of vernaculars can suggest familiarity or relationship with the subculture.

"Orbit" is not "vernacular," it's a very widely used English word.

 

[Radagast]

So it's 100% the victims fault or...? What percent?

I think you're confusing the issue of moral responsibility with the issue of contributing factors.

Likewise you're confusing the issue of justice (murderers should be put away for a very long time) with the issue of practical safety advice for the growing number of Insta-girls.

And perhaps also truth with politically advantageous speech.

 

[Ironhold]

Likewise you're confusing the issue of justice (murderers should be put away for a very long time) with the issue of practical safety advice for the growing number of Insta-girls.

Several years ago, columnist Emily Yoffe decided to dig into the purported campus rape epidemic going on in America. During the process of her investigation, she discovered that a rather high percentage of alleged rape incidents (I want to say 40% - 50%) involved the victim having first been plied with alcoholic beverages. Because of this, she recommended that people either avoid alcohol when out in large groups or take extra pains to be careful if and when they do decide to drink.

She made her recommendation to help other people avoid being victims.

Instead, so many people started blasting her for "victim-shaming" that it cost her her job; the publication she was with opted to throw her under the bus rather than stand up for a common-sense suggestion.

That's the kind of thing people are talking about: there are ways people can avoid being a victim of crime, but nowadays any talk of this is seen as somehow shaming victims for being victims.

 

[Radagast]

Because of this, she recommended that people either avoid alcohol when out in large groups or take extra pains to be careful if and when they do decide to drink.

Although very similar advice is in fact given to anybody intending to travel by car.

 

[SummerMadness]

"Orbit" is not "vernacular," it's a very widely used English word.

Are you seriously arguing that the usage of a word in the context of this murderer is widely used? It's not. Orbiting is an incel culture term; most people that use the word orbit are talking about astronomy, not demonizing a woman for their sexless lives.

 

[SummerMadness]

The victim-blaming here is crazy. We have one set trying to imply that the victim's sexual behavior caused her to be killed, then you have another set who makes the more misogynistic argument that she brought this on herself. It's quite simple, a person that murders is 100% responsible. Not 10%, not 99%, but 100% responsible. If he was angry about her actions or behavior, there was another option, walk away, take the L. But no, he wants that woman and if he can't have her, then no one can.

 

[Radagast]

Are you seriously arguing that the usage of a word in the context of this murderer is widely used?

"Orbiting" used as a metaphor (orbiting around a person) is widely used, yes.

I don't know how, or even if, the murderer used the word.

 

[Radagast]

The victim-blaming here is crazy.

The misrepresentation of what people are saying is crazy.

And, as I said before, I think you're confusing the issue of moral responsibility with the issue of contributing factors.

Likewise you're confusing the issue of justice with the issue of practical safety advice for Insta-girls.

And perhaps also truth with politically advantageous speech.

 

[SummerMadness]

"Orbiting" used as a metaphor (orbiting around a person) is widely used, yes.

I don't know how, or even if, the murderer used the word.

Orbiting is being used as a term to describe men that get close to a women hoping to be intimate with her. That's the context and that's a concept many incels subscribe to.

There seems to be a concerted effort to detach this man from the subculture he is... it's not going to work.

 

[SummerMadness]

The misrepresentation of what people are saying is crazy.

And, as I said before, I think you're confusing the issue of moral responsibility with the issue of contributing factors.

Likewise you're confusing the issue of justice with the issue of practical safety advice for Insta-girls.

And perhaps also truth with politically advantageous speech.

Her sexual behavior is not a "contributing factor."

Hey ladies, don't do anything with family friends nor argue with them because they might murder you!

 

[Radagast]

Orbiting is being used as a term to describe men that get close to a women hoping to be intimate with her.

It's a metaphor so ancient as to be a cliche. It's very widely used.

Love is that orbit of the restless soul
Whose circle grazes the confines of space,
Bounding within the limits of its race
Utmost extremes; whose high and topmost pole
Within the very blaze of heaven doth roll;
Whose nether course is through the darkest place
Eclipsed by hell. What daring hand shall trace
The blended joys and sorrows that control
A heart whose journeys the fixed hand of Fate
Points through this pathway? Who may soar so high,—
Behold such glories with unwinking eye?
Who drop so low beneath his mortal state,
And thence return with careful chart and date,
To mark which way another’s course must lie?

(George Henry Boker, 1823–1890)

 

[SummerMadness]

It's a metaphor so ancient as to be a cliche. It's very widely used.

A term used in a specific way when ascribed to women of the incel community.

Off-topic, people really tell on themselves.

 

[Radagast]

All murderers should face the full force of the law.

I don't think anyone here is arguing against that.

 

[ChicanaRose]

And, as I said before, I think you're confusing the issue of moral responsibility with the issue of contributing factors.

She just happened to be someone who struggled with moral issues who was murdered. Her struggles and the event of murder are completely unrelated to each other.