Inaccurate Depiction Of Crucifixion Lands Priest In Hot Water

Bruce S

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Abandon crucifix Say's Catholic priest

<A id=link name=link>The Courier(Australia), Aug. 28, 2003

http://www.thecouriermail.news.com.au

By Glenis Green

A Sunshine Coast Catholic priest has been accused of undermining church teachings by saying the crucifix should never have become the symbol of Christianity and that Jesus would have been crucified naked.


Father John Dobson, the Sunshine Coast dean and Caloundra priest, made the comments in his column in the Sunshine Coast Sunday newspaper last month.


However he has now come under attack by Sunshine Coast Catholic Advocacy League head and editor of the fundamentalist Catholic newsletter Lepanto, Max Lynch.


Mr Lynch has described the remarks as unbelievable.


He said Father Dobson had overstepped the mark by making comment that was not indicative of Catholic principles and teachings.


"I'm completely bamboozled on why he is taking that attitude," Mr Lynch said.


"The crucifix has been the symbol of Christianity since it began."


Father Dobson's remarks were made in the context of the current debate about sexuality of the clergy, in which he advocated a greater understanding of the power of the Christian message.


He wrote that the fascination of sexuality in a negative form has long been a feature of Christianity and that the crucifix had been rendered unauthentic by this negative sexual mindset.


"Most certainly Jesus would have been crucified naked, as was the Roman practice," Father Dobson wrote. "At some stage it was decided that Jesus' sexuality must be covered up, and so he was draped in a loincloth, which somehow would make him more presentable in polite Christian company!


"It is also as if sex had to be removed from this powerful image."


Father Dobson said the crucifix should never have become the symbol of Christianity because it was a means of execution.


"If Christianity means life it is the resurrection that is our real symbol," he wrote.


"But maybe the crucifix is the appropriate symbol for such negative, confining thinkers who are terrified to think in a more lateral, open way.


"These people love to debate what other people should or shouldn't be thinking or doing and whether they belong in the Christian tradition or not.


"Christianity was surely never meant to be a stick to belt someone on the head with, but rather a constant call to a meaningful life with God."


Describing Father Dobson's statements as weird, Mr Lynch said copies of Lepanto detailing the controversy had been sent to three senior Vatican cardinals, including Pope John Paul II's right-hand man, German-born Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.


Father Dobson said last night that he had received positive feedback about his column, which he had been writing for 12 years, with many people commenting it had helped them understand their faith.


He said while he had demonstrated his loyalty to the church as a priest of 32 years but by contrast Mr Lynch was "very disloyal" and his group was not an accredited organisation within the church
 

Bruce S

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"Most certainly Jesus would have been crucified naked, as was the Roman practice," Father Dobson wrote. "At some stage it was decided that Jesus' sexuality must be covered up, and so he was draped in a loincloth, which somehow would make him more presentable in polite Christian company!
In this respect, the priest is right, it was naked that Our Lord died for us in the most horrid fashion possible. Crucifixion was, in addition to execution, a humiliation tool, to allow onlookers to SEE Roman Justice being carried out, to deter others from fighting Rome. In fact Roman citizens were not allowed to be crucified, they when needed, were put to the death by beheading, as most likely Paul was when he died.

I agree with the covering of Our Lords privates, the scene is graphic enough without further humiltation on our part in viewing that scene.

I've been told that the cross was not used in the early days of the chuch, it was not the image they wanted, an execution device as the symbol of the new faith.

Does anyone know when the cross started being used as our symbol for the new religion?
 
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Megachihuahua

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newlamb said:
Just what we need and just like on some of these forums - more Christian-baiting (by other Christians) :cry:

Bruce S - do you think this is just one more effort to divide, maximizing the falling away of Christians?
I would have liked a fish for a symbol a little more... What's the big deal? My research shows that the Rapture will accur in 2012, and the end of the world in 2021. ^_^ I'm Nutty!
 
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Nathan Poe

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Bruce S said:
In this respect, the priest is right, it was naked that our Lord died. Crucifixion was, in addition to execution, a humiliation tool, to allow onlookers to SEE Roman Justice being carried out, to deter others from fighting Rome.
Absolutely true. Naked crucifixion was a given, as a final humiliation for the victim, as well as a message for all witnesses: This is what we do to criminals.
I agree with the covering of Our Lords privates, the scene is graphic enough without further humiltation on our part in viewing that scene.

Are we going to let sexual squeamishness override historical accuracy? The crucifixion was one of the defining moments in the life of the most important figure in human history. If a group of men (in this case, the Catholic Church) decided that you can't handle this unpleasant truth about the life of your savior, then who knows what other, more significant, unpleasant truths they've omitted?

If you truly want to follow the life of Christ, you don't get to pick and choose which facts to follow and which to ignore, and you should be suspicious of those who try to do it for you.

If you want to follow Christ, then do it right. Accept and celebrate the whole story, "unpleasant details" and all. Otherwise you're just worshipping half a God, and what use is that?
 
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Bruce S

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newlamb said:
Just what we need and just like on some of these forums - more Christian-baiting (by other Christians) :cry:

Bruce S - do you think this is just one more effort to divide, maximizing the falling away of Christians?

No. It is a commentary of what is going on in the press. Hiding our heads, ignoring the scorn, not having real answers when these things happen and are printed is wrong. You NEED to know what is being said, need to have replies, need to be connected. Of course, the writer is anti Christian, that is evident from the tone of the article, and this IS the section for news information. We need to be prepared when others ask us..."hey, did you see this one?"
 
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Bruce S

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Nathan Poe said:
Are we going to let sexual squeamishness override historical accuracy? The crucifixion was one of the defining moments in the life of the most important figure in human history. If a group of men (in this case, the Catholic Church) decided that you can't handle this unpleasant truth about the life of your savior, then who knows what other, more significant, unpleasant truths they've omitted?

If you truly want to follow the life of Christ, you don't get to pick and choose which facts to follow and which to ignore, and you should be suspicious of those who try to do it for you.

If you want to follow Christ, then do it right. Accept and celebrate the whole story, "unpleasant details" and all. Otherwise you're just worshipping half a God, and what use is that?

Nice try. Watch Mel Gibson's "The Passion" ... the trailer alone is enough to stop you in your tracks. The real Crucifixtion was the most horrid death man had devised. The reality of it is known. Others, like Paul, were beheaded. I guess you want pictures of him decapitated too? Graphic is graphic. And frankly, the Protestants with the "Empty Cross" seems to make the point sufficiently for anyone that cares.
 
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SirKenin

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That's why our cross is empty, yup.

I did watch a show of what's behind crucifixions, especially what is likely to happen in Jesus time. Modern crosses and crucifix's from what I learned are hardly an accurate depiction of what happened.
 
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True Christ was crucified naked.......but no I don't think naked pictures are going to help anyone..........

While I will say I find it very important to tell of the death and the meaning of Jesus' death.....I also say that without the end result we are nothing........ Yes remember the crucifixion but do not dwell in it live in the resurrection!

I love this song!

Not a word was heard at the tomb that day.
Just shuffling soldiers feet as they guarded the grave
One day, two days, three days had passed.
could it be that Jesus had breathed His last
Could it be that His Father had forsaken Him
turned His back on His Son despising our sin
all hell seemed to whisper "just forget Him, He's dead"
Then the Father looked down to His Son and said,


Arise My Love, Arise My Love
The grave no longer has a hold on you
No more deaths sting, no more suffering
Arise, Arise My Love


The earth trembled and the tomb began to shake
and like lightning from heaven the stone was rolled away
and as dead men the guards stood there in fright
as the power of love displayed its might
Then suddenly a melody filled the air
riding wings of wind it was everywhere
the words all creation had been longing to hear
the sweet sound of victory so loud and clear


Arise My Love, Arise My Love
The grave no longer has a hold on you
No more deaths sting, no more suffering
Arise, Arise


Sin, Where is you shackles?
Death, Where is your sting?
Hell has been defeated,
The Grave Could Not Hold The KING!
 
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Nathan Poe

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Bruce S said:
Just glad he didn't die in the French Revolution. I would HATE to have to wear a Guilletoine around my neck...

:)

Just imagine the big ones over the altar in church! Would they be functional?


Still, it could be worse: if JFK had been the messiah, you'd wear a little rifle around your neck.
 
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