In what ways are you a liberal Christian ?

[Angelajt]

I guess being liberal would mean you believe in free choice. Of course to call yourself a Christian you would choose as the Holy Spirit leads you. Therefore if we give everyone a choice to do good or bad and did not have laws.....then what would become of the world...Even with laws we see wrong choices...but with consequences....some people only believe something is wrong if they get caught or have a written law that call it wrong....those with the laws written in their heart and mind by the spirit of God do not need the laws...

My thought on liberal Christianity

 

[Starstreak M86]

I am "Liberal" when it comes to:

Politics (I'm a Socialistic/Libertarian Independent Moderate)

Church Politics (I believe in female preachers and Gay preachers)

Attitude (I believe in an uncompromising love for Humanity and all kinds of peoples)

Worship (I like Christian R&B/Christian Rap and Christian Rock)

 

[Yahweh Nissi]

See this thread: http://www.christianforums.com/t110871

If you are so certain that the Bible teaches this, then provide your argument. If not, withdraw it and admit that maybe it's not your (or anybody's) job to point out the sins of others.

As I have a little more time on my hands...

2 Timothy 4

1In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: 2Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction. 3For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. 5But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.
6For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time has come for my departure. 7I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day--and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.[NIV]

Galatians 6

1Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted. 2Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.[NIV]

There you go

Note, you should of course always do this in extreme humbleness and without judgement, fully aware of your own failings and when you have carefully examined yourself to ensure that you are not looking for specks when you have a log in your own eye.

God bless,
YN.

 

[Yahweh Nissi]

By the way Bonhoffer, the way it generally seems to be used in Britian, I would not call yourself a liberal Christian. I am 'liberal' (as you define it) on politics and attitude, and somewhat on worship, but it seems to me that if you are saying 'liberal Christian' then you are defining as liberal those things specifically releated to Christianity - i.e. theology and curch politics. (What kind of worship you like tends to cut accross these other issues - indeed it seems to me that those who are 'liberal' on theology and church politics tend to prefer 'traditional' worship, whereas evangelicals ar more likely to be 'happy clappy').

I call myself an evangelical* Christian, and it seems that would suit you - indeed you seems to be more conservative/evangelical/fundamentalist/whatever then myself on issues of theology and church politics.
Just a suggestion anyhow,
God bless,
YN.


*I know all these lables are frustrating, and it would be great if we could all just call ourseles Christians, but without lables there is no way of quickly getting accross information about ourselves - there is not always time and space to explicitly explain everything.

 

[Fideist]

A "liberal" Christian is generally a Christian less opposed to change. A liberal Christian is generally less inclined to think that tradition is important. A liberal Christian generally welcomes new information concerning everything from manuscript discoveries to the archaeology of the Holy Land. A liberal Christian is often more interested in human rights than the claims of those who also claim to be in possession of infallible knowledge concerning scriptural authority.

 

[blessedbe]

Guess I'm considered liberal, though I'm not as liberal as I used to be!

Political: Politics are not my thing. But, I'm happy to be born in a free country and consider it my duty to vote, so I try to vote for candidates, not party line. I try not to let my personal religous views dictate how I vote..I just vote and hope i got someone honest who really cares about what he/she is doing.

Biblically: Well, I can't take the Bible totally literally or I'd be atheist. I think the Bible is supremely important, but can definately be mis-understood. Inspired by God? yes. Totally infallable?......yikes, can't answer that one. I believe that different people will get different messages out of it as the Holy Spirit wants.

Theologically: Thats changing all the time! Can't go with Universalism cuz' that would negate the Cross in my opinion, but I think alot more people will be saved than most think. I think God will be alot more forgiving when it comes to peoples beliefs in things like Hell, Trinity, and other things that separate the churches. God knows our hearts and will judge accordingly.

Church Politics: I don't particularly see the problem with female pastors, but I'm not so sure about Gay pastors...I guess if they are not practicing gays....that's a tough personal opinion. I think that affiliating yourselfs with a local church is important because of the fellowshipping and the good things your church can do as a whole(helping the poor, unchurched etc) But I think it's the local church you should be affiliated with and not the "national"--that gets far too political..

Attitude: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your mind, and Love others the same.... I think that about says it all. To many churches forget this one. I like the earlier post about getting back to helping the sick, homeless, needy, the orphans etc....and forgetting about judging what doesn't fit their IDEA of christian......

Worship: I personally like modern worship. I love the Newsboys Worship Album, I like Christian Rock. Can't say I'm happy clappy though, not much hand raising and foot stomping or shaking going on during it!!....I enjoy alot of the older hymms, but Modern Worship just really does it for me!! I grew up Quaker so worship was very different, quiet and reverant, but without any whistles and bells.....

If this make me Liberal, guess I am! But I've had some Liberals call me conservative...so I guess I'm more middle of the road!!!

 

[PastorFreud]

As I have a little more time on my hands...

2 Timothy 4

1In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: 2Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction. 3For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. 5But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.
6For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time has come for my departure. 7I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day--and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.[NIV]

Do you also believe you should take some wine for your stomach? Paul does direct Timothy to do this too.

At the most, this passage can be generalized to pastors. At the least, we can recognize that Timothy had a duty to perform that is not generalizable. In either case, this is not a command to all Christians to point out the sins of others.

Galatians 6

1Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted. 2Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.[NIV]

There you go

Note, you should of course always do this in extreme humbleness and without judgement, fully aware of your own failings and when you have carefully examined yourself to ensure that you are not looking for specks when you have a log in your own eye.

God bless,
YN.

The spiritual ones should restore the fallen person. There is an implication here that the fallen person knows they need help. This is about a process of restoration, not a mandate to tell others when they sin. This is still the Holy Spirit's job. The church, on the other hand, is to be a community that expresses love and caring for each other. The perfect place for a convicted sinner to find wholeness.

 

[Yahweh Nissi]

Do you also believe you should take some wine for your stomach? Paul does direct Timothy to do this too.

I need no excuse to drink a glass of good wine

At the most, this passage can be generalized to pastors. At the least, we can recognize that Timothy had a duty to perform that is not generalizable. In either case, this is not a command to all Christians to point out the sins of others.

But seriously, it is common sense to see that the advice about the wine is probably due to some specific problem Timothy has, or it may just be general advice that a little wine is good for you - which is well known today anyhow! It would clearly be redicoulous to take that as a command to drink wine.

I am well aware that we should not read the scriptures as God's personal letter to us, but should bear in mind who they are written to and in what context. However, I would say that at the least, this passage can be generalisable to pastors - that seems to be what Paul was doing here, giving Timothy advice on how to be a pastor (in fact, that is the subject of much of the letter one way or another). And as it contains other advice which we know is not specific to Timothy, preaching the word, being prepared, encouraging others, why should we see this one bit in the middle of these as specific. Timothy was clearly a great Christian but not inherantly different from any other, he was not an apostle. Why should advice to him on being a pastor, which does not seem to be peculiar tothat culture or time, not apply to others? And whilst some are specially called to be pastors, all Christians are a "kingdom of priests". I agree it should not be taken as a 'command' to all Christians to rebuke and correct, but there may be situations where we are called to so this - especially in the light of the Galatians passage as well.

The spiritual ones should restore the fallen person. There is an implication here that the fallen person knows they need help.

I see no such thing implied - "Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently."

This is about a process of restoration, not a mandate to tell others when they sin. This is still the Holy Spirit's job. The church, on the other hand, is to be a community that expresses love and caring for each other. The perfect place for a convicted sinner to find wholeness.

It seems quite clearly to me to be saying that if a Christian is found to be wilfully sinning, others close to them should help restore them. Which must include gently pointing out the sin. There have been times in my life I know this would have been useful for me. It might have been embarasing at the time, but looking back I wish it had happened so I could have got back to a more Godly life more quickly and they would be watching over me and praying so I would be less tempted in the future. I totally agree that the church is to be a community that expresses love and caring for each other - this would be part of it.

God bless,
YN.

 

[PastorFreud]

I am well aware that we should not read the scriptures as God's personal letter to us, but should bear in mind who they are written to and in what context. However, I would say that at the least, this passage can be generalisable to pastors - that seems to be what Paul was doing here, giving Timothy advice on how to be a pastor (in fact, that is the subject of much of the letter one way or another). And as it contains other advice which we know is not specific to Timothy, preaching the word, being prepared, encouraging others, why should we see this one bit in the middle of these as specific. Timothy was clearly a great Christian but not inherantly different from any other, he was not an apostle. Why should advice to him on being a pastor, which does not seem to be peculiar tothat culture or time, not apply to others? And whilst some are specially called to be pastors, all Christians are a "kingdom of priests". I agree it should not be taken as a 'command' to all Christians to rebuke and correct, but there may be situations where we are called to so this - especially in the light of the Galatians passage as well.

It's dangerous to build doctrine this way. You can wind up having baptisms for the dead using the same approach.

It seems quite clearly to me to be saying that if a Christian is found to be wilfully sinning, others close to them should help restore them. Which must include gently pointing out the sin. There have been times in my life I know this would have been useful for me. It might have been embarasing at the time, but looking back I wish it had happened so I could have got back to a more Godly life more quickly and they would be watching over me and praying so I would be less tempted in the future. I totally agree that the church is to be a community that expresses love and caring for each other - this would be part of it.

But we don't agree on what sin is. That's why I believe the doctrine that has more credibility is "witness." We give testimony to our own experience and to our own understanding. If the Holy Spirit uses this to convict the person of sin, then we can certainly help out. It is dangerous to have Christians going around judging the world of sin and righteousness. We are not qualified for the job. What we are qualified to do is speak of our own experience. I still see no clear commandment to point out the sins of others. But I see several telling us to profess what we have experienced and to show love toward others.

 

[Lady_Firehawk]

About the ONLY way I'm liberal is in terms of worship and stuff like Dungeons and Dragons, fantasy novels, etc...

 

[Lady_Firehawk]

Double post... GRRRRR.

 

[blessedbe]

Lady Firehawk,

This is TOTALLY off topic but I had to mention it....


I saw your "theme song" at the end of your post and thought I'd mention it.

A lady at our church sang that song during our Easter services!!! It was so cool. Blew everyone away. It was so relevant to the services and I dont' think anyone expected that one!!!

 

[Bonhoffer]

It is one thing to express your opinion with a friend where there is mutual respect and trust between you - if you are willing to ultimately agree to differ.

This is what I actually meant

The reason I posted this is because occasionally this is done between me and the Christian men whom I have fellowship with.

Seriously we do not judge each other. In our mens meetings we even share if we have masterbated recently. Theres that much trust. And if someone says they have we dont look done on them. We just have a laugh about it and go 'oh dear'!

We see it as our duty to look out for each other and if we can see Satan setting a trap for our brother then we warn them about it. I will do this for them and they will do it for me. We are constantly helping each other grow. We certainly do go "I'm better than you because I dont smoke etc etc..."

Sometimes we might not realise that something is sinful or dangerous. (i.e I didnt know that saying "Oh my God" was wrong until I said it and a friend told me that it was considered blasmphemy) And another time when I got drunk a friend told me that it was a bad idea to get drunk because he beleives that Satan can use it to control people. Now until my friend said this and proved it with scripture ("do not get drunk on wine, but be filled with the Holy Spirit") I never thought about this. But even if I went out and got really drunk this weekend he would not start pointing his finger at me or telling me that I am evil. We share these veiws because we love each other and want to encourage spiritual growth and ensure that we are not caught out by the devils schemes.

BTW I thought you were angry because your Mood Icon says Irritated ! lol

 

[Bonhoffer]

As for the things about specks of sawdust and planks of wood in Matthew 7. I think it does imply that we can gently help someone else with their sin (to share their burden) as long as our hearts are fighting against our own sin which we admit exists.

 

[Aduro Amnis]

I proudly checked all of them.

 

[transientlife]

politically - like PastorFreud I avoid politics, but would probably choose Liberal if I had to pick.

biblically (non-literal/Bible fallible) On this topic, I waver. I like to think the bible is infallible, but I have my ocassional doubts. As far as literal/figurative goes...I definitely believe parts of the Bible are purely figurative, used to illustrate a lesson, but it doesn't make them any less important.

theologically (gay acts okay/universalism) Well, as far as I know, homosexual acts are sinful in the Bible translation. I wouldn't choose a stance here either (ok or not). I love and accept a person despite their sexual preference, kind of like "it is or isn't ok...it just IS" Why should I condemn and drive away a gay person when I'm not perfect either? As far as I've been taught, Christianity isn't about driving people away.

church politics (pro-female ministers/active gay ministers) I have no problem with women ministers- there is one in my family's church. I don't see how gay ministers would make them any less able to preach the word of God (obviously ministers aren't without sin - most times their sins probably aren't as taboo).

attitude (love, love, unconditional love. non-judgemental) DEFINITELY Liberal minded here. I prefer to follow the more love, mercy, compassion and forgiveness version of Christianity. Sure there is judgement, etc., but I think sometimes it outweighs the more compassionate side, sadly. I'm out to balance the scales! I don't force my religion down others throats, which has resulted in some (on here, but another board) questioning if I was really a Christian. I don't see how you can't be a Christian and allow others freedom of choice, but apparently some believe as such.

worship (Christian Rock ? happy clappy) The heathen in me doesn't so much prefer Christian music, at least not any that I have heard so far. My father listens to gospel (Gaithers, maybe? the names escape me) and I can only take that for about 30 seconds. Until I find a Christian band that appeals to my ears and my heart, my ears will fall to the secular rock ---God bless Jimi Hendrix that's all I gotta say! He had God given talent that speaks to my heart! As far as worship is concerned...I'm more for the classroom type deal, where I feel I'm really learning something and not just sitting there letting the words pass right through me like a bunch of prunes, I also like the more peaceful, reflective, meditative type worship.

 

[covenant914]

I checked all the boxes.

Politically - economically conservative; socially liberal

Biblically - men wrote the Bible for men about man's relationship with God

Theologically - all ok, esp universalism

Church politics - we have a female minister, female choir director and female youth director - enuff said. (But no female ushers!!!)

Attitude - love: yes

Worship - We have 2 services. One happy/clappy and one smell/bells. I like both but attend the happy/clappy because it is early(I work 3rd shift and have to go to bed).

I do not like Christian rock, rap, R&B, etc. Has nothing to say.

I am a practicing Methodist but should probably be a Universalist/Quaker/Taoist. If there is a church out there for me - let me know.

 

[Nomes]

I haven't actually voted for any of those. They've been grouped together in an interesting way

For instance - it's a long stretch from Pro-female ministers to Pro-gay ministers!

 

[SFBay]

I voted for all of them. I guess I am VERY liberal.

Also, keep in mind Jesus Himself was liberal for his time.

 

[jgarden]

I scored 6/6 but I don't consider myself a Liberal. I would like to see "love your neighbor as yourself" actually put into practice. That would require a dratic shift in America's mindset . Even the Christian Right, who claim to take the Bible literally, would have trouble making the adjustment.