In Turkey Vs. Kurds Dispute, Trump Chooses The Side Where He Has A Condo Complex

tulc

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In Turkey Vs. Kurds Dispute, Trump Chooses The Side Where He Has A Condo Complex
Donald Trump’s abandonment of one of the United States’ strongest allies in the fight against Islamic State terrorists also happens to reward the authoritarian ruler of Turkey, where the U.S. president personally profits from the Trump Towers in Istanbul.

It is not known whether the residential and commercial complex has ever come up in the various private conversations between Trump and Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan since Trump took office. Seven years ago, Erdogan, then the country’s prime minister, attended the grand opening of the twin skyscraper project, and Trump’s elder daughter Ivanka praised him for doing so.
tulc(is going to need some more coffee soon) :sigh:
 
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tulc

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He hasn't chosen a side. He's chosen to be neutral.
..."choosing to be neutral" is choosing a side, it's choosing to side with the aggressor. :sigh:
tulc(thought that was pretty obvious when Turkey started bombing the Kurds) :sorry:
 
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miamited

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Hi tulc,

The really sad part about this, while we discuss bad policy decisions, is that people are dying right now today. Turkey has already launched its offensive against the SDF and the Kurdish people living in the area. People are tonight dying who would have been alive today if our forces were still there. These SDF and Kurdish forces are, according to news reports, keeping guard over some several thousand ISIS prisoners who will likely be set free if the guarding forces flee the Turkish offensive. If the ISIS prisoners get their freedom, then the popular thinking is that they will regroup and begin terror attacks across the globe again.

This is rather like guarding a box full of vipers. The guards are chased off and the vipers are set free. People will die over this 'policy decision'. Because they have been our strongest ally in our fight with ISIS, this is going to look bad all over the globe that Americans can't be trusted to give back and support their allies in battle.

I agree that we need to get out of wars, but leaving, some say 70,000 imprisoned combatants to just throw open the gates and run free to continue their terror activities just isn't the way to do it. President Trump should have made plans for what was going to be done with those prisoners and it seems apparent that his threat against Turkey for doing 'anything untoward' didn't include killing the Kurds and SDF forces. Is that really who we are now? We just walk away and allow people who have been our friends and allies to just die?

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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tulc

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He made the "America first" choice.
Well...he chose the "Trump Condos" side actually. People can try and spin it how they like. :wave:
tulc(and of course, the Kurds never helped America on the beaches of Normandy) :doh:
 
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straykat

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Imagine being so woke that you start supporting war. Wew.

Neo-Cons like Lindsay Graham I understand. They are paid shills for weapons manufacturers. And in oil rich countries, it's especially simple. Weapons are a small investment for a large return in the form of pipelines and drilling (and sitting on the boards of said oil companies). Or just managing the whole clownshow in general (Cheney and Haliburton).

What I don't understand is the Left anymore. They even attack their own, like Tulsi Gabbard. Someone who was actually a combat medic and put her heart and soul and tears into this.. and now hates war. For that, the Left now calls her a Putin puppet. So if they can even stoop to that with their own, I can hardly care what they say about Trump. They've lowered the bar too low as it is.
 
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tulc

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Imagine being so woke that you start supporting war. Wew.

Neo-Cons like Lindsay Graham I understand. They are paid shills for weapons manufacturers. And in oil rich countries, it's especially simple. Weapons are a small investment for a large return in the form of pipelines and drilling (and sitting on the boards of said oil companies). Or just managing the whole clownshow in general (Cheney and Haliburton).

What I don't understand is the Left anymore. They even attack their own, like Tulsi Gabbard. Someone who was actually a combat medic and put her heart and soul and tears into this.. and now hates war. For that, the Left now calls her a Putin puppet. So if they can even stoop to that with their own, I can hardly care what they say about Trump. They've lowered the bar too low as it is.
...I may need some more coffee but I honestly have no idea what this post is saying. Any chance of an explanation? :scratch:
tulc(is just wondering) :wave:
 
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straykat

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...I may need some more coffee but I honestly have no idea what this post is saying. Any chance of an explanation? :scratch:
tulc(is just wondering) :wave:

Pretty straightforward really. I understand why Neo-Cons (and neo-liberals) come out in support of war. It's simple greed. What I don't understand is the new Leftist push for it. They were once anti-war. But it seems that they're only conveniently so. It's not grounded in principle, and can be pushed to and fro easily by propaganda or circumstance (such as hatred for Trump). They're incapable of sticking to principle. Except a small wing, like the Tulsi and Marianne contingent. Even Bernie and AOC has caved into the War Hawk talk.

Blessed are the peacemakers..

...And every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
 
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Mountainmanbob

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tulc

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Pretty straightforward really. I understand why Neo-Cons (and neo-liberals) come out in support of war. It's simple greed. What I don't understand is the new Leftist push for it. They were once anti-war. But it seems that they're only conveniently so. It's not grounded in principle, and can be pushed to and fro easily by propaganda or circumstance (such as hatred for Trump). They're incapable of sticking to principle. Except a small wing, like the Tulsi and Marianne contingent. Even Bernie and AOC has caved into the War Hawk talk.

Blessed are the peacemakers..

...And every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
...this particular war started when President Trump removed the American troops, if he hadn't pulled the troops there wouldn't have been an attack. So I'm sorry, but I honestly don't see where the "liberals" had anything to do with it. :scratch:
tulc(just thought that should be pointed out) :wave:
 
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tulc

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Title of the thread.
Ya -- like that was the reason.
...the title pointed what was probably one reason why he chose to let Turkey start invading instead of stopping them.

World politics have a little more to them than that.
...or they don't. :wave:

Maybe coffee is not that good for us?
I drink coffee to protect others, that's a good reason. :)

New report to be released soon.
M-Bob
No one needs that sort of negativity in their life. :eek:
tulc(certainly doesn't) :coffee:
 
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SoldierOfTheKing

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..."choosing to be neutral" is choosing a side, it's choosing to side with the aggressor. :sigh:
tulc(thought that was pretty obvious when Turkey started bombing the Kurds) :sorry:

False binary fallacy.

Anyway, just who is the aggressor? Turkey, because they violated Syrian borders? The US has had troops in Syria for years, so by that standard the US is the greater aggressor. Aggression in Syria is wrong when Turkey does it, and it is every bit as wrong, for the same reasons, when the US does it. Which is the why the US should leave.
 
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miamited

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False binary fallacy.

Anyway, just who is the aggressor? Turkey, because they violated Syrian borders? The US has had troops in Syria for years, so by that standard the US is the greater aggressor. Aggression in Syria is wrong when Turkey does it, and it is every bit as wrong, for the same reasons, when the US does it. Which is the why the US should leave.

Hi SOK,

While I understand your basic point, I disagree with the conclusion. The U.S. began wars and skirmishes in the middle east as a means of hunting down and putting to rest al qaeda, ISIS, and whatever other names middle eastern terror against the U.S. and Israel and Great Britain and many of the other nations of Europe went by. For the last few years, in that fight, the Kurds have been our friends. They have provided men and intelligence so that U.S. soldiers didn't have to die. For that, I believe, we owed them at least a more regulated withdrawal.

I have read that those same Kurds, through their SDF militia force, are presently helping us in keeping the ISIS prisoners that we have captured, contained. For that, we at least owed them the decency of telling them what our plans were and withdrawing as they were able to build protections for themselves and not just run out of town literally overnight.

You're free to understand that any occupying force within Syria that is not a Syrian force is somehow all equal, but I think that in this instance we at least owed the Kurds fair warning that we were leaving so that they could prepare to protect themselves. I'm just saying that it should have been a 3 month or 6 month removal. I also think that we have some responsibility in keeping all those ISIS prisoners detained and I have yet to see any response to that issue from the WH. Do we really want to just do this all over again in two years after the released or escaped ISIS prisoners regroup and rebuild and start all over their reign of terror. Is that really why you advise as the best plan of action?

Finally, I'm also very, very curious as to what Erdogan might have said to Donald Trump to prompt him to make such a rash and hurried move...literally overnight! That bothers me a lot!

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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tulc

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hmmm...so if you see someone on the street and while you're standing there that guy loitering to the side is watching for when you leave so you tell him :"I'm taking off now." and as you walk away he jumps on the other guy, you're just being neutral, you're not choosing a side by walking away? Because what it looks like? You're choosing the side of the guy you know is going to attack the other guy the minute you walk away. That doesn't look like a "false binary" to me. That looks like someone chose to side with the guy he personally makes money with. Which isn't how foreign policy is supposed to be conducted. :sigh:
tulc(just thought that should be pointed out) :wave:
 
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SoldierOfTheKing

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You're free to understand that any occupying force within Syria that is not a Syrian force is somehow all equal, but I think that in this instance we at least owed the Kurds fair warning that we were leaving so that they could prepare to protect themselves. I'm just saying that it should have been a 3 month or 6 month removal.

The President announced this withdrawal nearly a year ago...

I also think that we have some responsibility in keeping all those ISIS prisoners detained and I have yet to see any response to that issue from the WH. Do we really want to just do this all over again in two years after the released or escaped ISIS prisoners regroup and rebuild and start all over their reign of terror. Is that really why you advise as the best plan of action?

Syria has a government with its own army. If they need help, Russia will be more than willing to provide it.
 
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miamited

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HI SOK,

Thanks for your response:
The President announced this withdrawal nearly a year ago...

Uhhh no!

Syria has a government with its own army. If they need help, Russia will be more than willing to provide it.

Uhhhh, no! Yes, Syria has it's own army, however, they aren't likely to use it to support the Kurds. So, have you seen the news for the last couple of days in northern Syria. Would it be your position that the Kurds don't need any help?

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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SoldierOfTheKing

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hmmm...so if you see someone on the street and while you're standing there that guy loitering to the side is watching for when you leave so you tell him :"I'm taking off now." and as you walk away he jumps on the other guy, you're just being neutral, you're not choosing a side by walking away? Because what it looks like? You're choosing the side of the guy you know is going to attack the other guy the minute you walk away. That doesn't look like a "false binary" to me. That looks like someone chose to side with the guy he personally makes money with. Which isn't how foreign policy is supposed to be conducted. :sigh:

The President said, "The United States does not endorse this attack and has made it clear to Turkey that this operation is a bad idea." Can he make his position more clear than that?


Uhhh yes:

Trump orders rapid withdrawal from Syria in apparent reversal

There we even threads about in CF in which the same arguments against withdrawal were put forward. Have you forgotten already?

Uhhhh, no! Yes, Syria has it's own army, however, they aren't likely to use it to support the Kurds.

They're likely to use it to reclaim the sovereignty of Damascus over northeast Syria, which is the Kurds' only hope for security in the long term.

So, have you seen the news for the last couple of days in northern Syria. Would it be your position that the Kurds don't need any help?

What the Kurds need is the wrong question. It is not the proper basis for US foreign policy. The US certainly doesn't need American troops being caught up in the crossfire.
 
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