'In the beginning was the Word...' (John 1.1)

[quietbloke]

It goes on:

'True image of the infinite,
Whose essence is concealed,
Brightness of uncreated light,
The heart of God revealed.

But the high myst'ries of Thy Name
An angel's grasp transcend,
The Father only - glorious claim -
The Son can comprehend.'

Beautiful,profound words! And He is worthy and we bow before Him! Awesome!

 

[Archie the Preacher]

I find it so very interesting: All the Bible translators, from the Wycliffe Bible (progenitor of the KJV) to the NET Bible - and quite possibly some after the NET translation) all agree on the intent and meaning of the first three to fourteen verses of John.

EXCEPT for the translators of the "New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures" which contains the novel and original idea that Jesus wasn't really God. Everyone is wrong except for those behind the "NWT". How curious God's message was blocked from mankind until 1961. This assumption implies God has lost His mojo.

I trust I'll be forgiven if I don't agree.

 

[pescador]

Considering this definition, John 1:1 is therefore contradictory because someone who is with another person cannot be the same as the other person at the same time; and, the “spirit” is not a person even though it may be personified in the bible. Most importantly, the translation is not grammatically correct. The ancient Koine Greek did not use indefinite articles such as “a” and “an.” English grammar requires the use of these articles for the proper context and meaning to be understood. In other word, the grammatically correct translation should be rendered: “…the Word was a god.” The indefinite articles are inserted before “god” in Acts 12:22; 28:6. In comparison, several other scriptures that are grammatically and structurally the same are translated with such indefinite articles. See Mark 6:49; 11:23; John 4:19; 6:70.

John 1:1 is difficult to understand unless your mind has been enlightened by the Holy Spirit. Here it is in its entirety from the NRSV: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." God is spirit (John 4:24) but spirit needs expression, and Jesus is that expression. If I have a thought it doesn't mean much to anyone if I don't express it. The thought is a part of me but it also exists simultaneously separately from me because I have a physical form and my thought isn't tangible.

Nobody has ever seen God, but God became flesh and dwelt among us. (John 1:14). So God can't be seen but he became human and "dwelt among us". That is possible only because God is manifest in different forms simultaneously, including within us after Jesus gave us the Holy Spirit.

The answer to these statements is that God exists in several forms, but they are all part of the same Being. Jesus is separate from God the Father, but he is fully God, as is the Holy Spirit who lives within Christians. They just exist in different forms simultaneously. So "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God".

 

[faroukfarouk]

Beautiful,profound words! And He is worthy and we bow before Him! Awesome!

Amen!

 

[faroukfarouk]

Just recently was discussing with someone how John 1 is very similar to Genesis 1.

Back to basics.

 

[Matthew13:9]

In the beginning was Jesus, and Jesus was with the body of Christ in heaven and Jesus was the body of Christ in heaven.

When Christ said let "us" make man in the beginning: the "us" was referring to his body: his angels.

As the body of Christ is one on earth, so it is in heaven. Which is the reason in the OT for people claiming they have seen God when the scriptures show they have seen an angel of God: both is true.

 

[brinny]

Just recently was discussing with someone how John 1 is very similar to Genesis 1.

Back to basics.

I agree. It is right in sync with it.

Love John 1:1

 

[pescador]

In the beginning was Jesus, and Jesus was with the body of Christ in heaven and Jesus was the body of Christ in heaven.

When Christ said let "us" make man in the beginning: the "us" was referring to his body: his angels.

As the body of Christ is one on earth, so it is in heaven. Which is the reason in the OT for people claiming they have seen God when the scriptures show they have seen an angel of God: both is true.

The Bible means what it says: nothing more and nothing less.

John 1:1 says "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." It does not say "In the beginning was Jesus, and Jesus was with the body of Christ in heaven and Jesus was the body of Christ in heaven." Those are your words, not God's.

Genesis 1:26 says, "Then God said, “Let us make humankind in our image, after our likeness", not as you say, "Christ said let "us" make man in the beginning". Those are your words, not God's, and their is no evidence that "us" was referring to his body: his angels. That is your invention and contrary to what the Bible says. Furthermore, there is nowhere in Scripture that it says that Jesus' body are the angels. Quite the contrary.

If the OT says that people saw God, they saw God. Period. There is no basis for saying that "people claiming they have seen God when the scriptures show they have seen an angel of God: both is true."

If you're trying to rewrite Scripture you're not doing a very good job. The Bible means exactly what it says. I suggest that you let God's word teach you instead of you trying (badly) to teach others.

 

[Matthew13:9]

The Bible means what it says: nothing more and nothing less.

John 1:1 says "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." It does not say "In the beginning was Jesus, and Jesus was with the body of Christ in heaven and Jesus was the body of Christ in heaven." Those are your words, not God's.

Genesis 1:26 says, "Then God said, “Let us make humankind in our image, after our likeness", not as you say, "Christ said let "us" make man in the beginning". Those are your words, not God's, and their is no evidence that "us" was referring to his body: his angels. That is your invention and contrary to what the Bible says. Furthermore, there is nowhere in Scripture that it says that Jesus' body are the angels. Quite the contrary.

If the OT says that people saw God, they saw God. Period. There is no basis for saying that "people claiming they have seen God when the scriptures show they have seen an angel of God: both is true."

If you're trying to rewrite Scripture you're not doing a very good job. The Bible means exactly what it says. I suggest that you let God's word teach you instead of you trying (badly) to teach others.

What I have posted is not for you: neither can you believe it.

 

[pescador]

What I have posted is not for you: neither can you believe it.

If you post something in a forum that discusses Christian scriptures, it's for anyone who reads it and they have the right to reply. I disagree with what you said because it's not scriptural, just your false interpretation.

 

[Matthew13:9]

If you post something in a forum that discusses Christian scriptures, it's for anyone who reads it and they have the right to reply. I disagree with what you said because it's not scriptural, just your false interpretation.

The truth is for them that can hear it. You can reply if you wish, I can't stop you.

 

[Matthew13:9]

John 1:1-2King James Version (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.


John 1:14King James Version (KJV)

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


John 4:24King James Version (KJV)

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.



In the beginning was Jesus, and Jesus was with the Spirit of Christ, and Jesus was the Spirit of Christ.
The same was in the beginning with the Spirit of Christ.

And Jesus was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Spirit of Christ,) full of grace and truth.

Christ is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in Jesus.

 

[pescador]

The truth is for them that can hear it. You can reply if you wish, I can't stop you.

I agree with both your sentences.

 

[pescador]

John 1:1-2King James Version (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.


John 1:14King James Version (KJV)

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


John 4:24King James Version (KJV)

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.



In the beginning was Jesus, and Jesus was with the Spirit of Christ, and Jesus was the Spirit of Christ.
The same was in the beginning with the Spirit of Christ.

And Jesus was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Spirit of Christ,) full of grace and truth.

Christ is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in Jesus.

You are distorting the very verses that you quote.

 

[Urban_Legend]

The Lord Jesus as the eternal Word is a foundational truth.

'Word', for logos here can also be translated 'reason', although He is very much God's reason, not man's: the final and full expression of God's wisdom and thoughts, co-equal with the Father.

One translator has rendered it: 'In the beginning was Speech'. After all, He spoke, and the worlds came into being. He speaks, and believing sinners are wondrously born of Him.

Dude I heard one translator doing it like this: In the beginning was the WORD and the word was with God and the word was God...I used to think that the "WORD" was Jesus but I'm not gonna go into the theory behind it but now after hearing another theory (which I'm also not gonna go into) believe that the "WORD" which was there before the creation of the world, is infact who he is, his word, what he stands for, the living life force of who he is. I'm sure if you read scripture regarding that, in the context I just gave with better indulgence you would get a whole new point of revelation

 

[faroukfarouk]

Dude I heard one translator doing it like this: In the beginning was the WORD and the word was with God and the word was God...I used to think that the "WORD" was Jesus but I'm not gonna go into the theory behind it but now after hearing another theory (which I'm also not gonna go into) believe that the "WORD" which was there before the creation of the world, is infact who he is, his word, what he stands for, the living life force of who he is. I'm sure if you read scripture regarding that, in the context I just gave with better indulgence you would get a whole new point of revelation

Verse 14 explains that the Word is indeed the Lord Jesus.

 

[Urban_Legend]

Verse 14 explains that the Word is indeed the Lord Jesus.

But Jesus is God and by the word becoming flesh...it simply means that God became flesh (Jesus)

 

[faroukfarouk]

John's Gospel is clear about God in three Persons - Father, Son and Holy Spirit - distinct Persons working together in God's redemptive purposes for His glory.

 

[Urban_Legend]

But clearly you are directly comparing a word being "word" which was translated into one of the most corrupted languages, in the 21st century...who says the word "word" was translated and meant to mean the same thing in two chapters or verses?

 

[Urban_Legend]

John's Gospel is clear about God in three Persons - Father, Son and Holy Spirit - distinct Persons working together in God's redemptive purposes for His glory.[/QUOTE

I agree with you but in John 1 v1 before the word became flesh...like you say when the word became flesh the word was Jesus.