In Our Day

[gracechick]

How does one cope with so many refusing to listen to what the Lord is saying no matter how sincerely they are told? What is the response needed to be given to those who continually say that prophecy is not a part of God's plan for our day? And the one that frustrates me to no end is the constant comment that "prophecy is only to be used for the edification of the Body". This quickly followed by are you certain this is the word of the Lord and what is your rate of accuracy?
This gifting is intense imho and we need support and prayer, but often find the very same cold shoulder and mocking the prophetic people of the Bible encountered. Am I the only one struggling with these questions and issues?

 

[WeWillSeeHimWhenHeAppears]

Well, gracechick ... you ain't alone ... because many people really struggle with the idea of dreams and visions and prophecy today. To many, dreams and visions are not for today, and the word prophecy has been redefined by many just to mean a word of encouragement. So it's a difficult issue, because many of those who are saying this and promoting it are God fearing, but they have bought into the lie that dreams and visions, and prophecy have ceased, based on a twisting of Scripture. If you go to Google, and search on the key words, "are dreams and visions for today fcet" you will find some material that may bless you and encourage you.

God is alive and well today, and dreams and visions and prophecy exist. Some have abused them ... but I think one of the greatest things you can do is to keep sharing your dreams and visions on this forum, and receive encouragement, and share them as God gives you the ability and leading.

 

[Firewater]

Thanks WeWillSeeHimWhenHeAppears

There is a good point in FCET - Does God Give Dreams and Visions Today? which I hadn't heard before.

And the one that frustrates me to no end is the constant comment that "prophecy is only to be used for the edification of the Body".
I presume the people who say this are referring to 1 Cor 12-14. In these chapters the apostle Paul was speaking to problems in the the Corinthian church.

1. 1 Corinthians 11:18
   In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, and to some extent I believe it.
   1 Corinthians 11:17-19 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 11 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
2. 1 Corinthians 11:20
   So then, when you come together, it is not the Lord’s Supper you eat,
   1 Corinthians 11:19-21 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 11 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
3. 1 Corinthians 11:34
   Anyone who is hungry should eat something at home, so that when you meet together it may not result in judgment. And when I come I will give further directions.
   1 Corinthians 11:33-34 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 11 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
4. 1 Corinthians 14:26
   [ Good Order in Worship ] What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up.

The meaning of "that the church may be built up" (edification of the Body) I think is open to debate. If the people who are saying this to you mean "encouraging" words I don't think this is right. A prophetic message bringing a word of correction is discouraging on the surface or in the short term. But if the word is accurate & people respond to the correction, then in my opion the church is built up. I think the same also applies to prophetic warnings of disaster given so people can prepare.

Also, because the apostle Paul is giving this instruction about when they come together- ie at church service or meeting, this doesn't mean this is the only place where these gifts should be used- for believers.

There are several examples of Paul using a propetic gift to mostly non-believers in Acts 27. Whilst they aren't declared by the apostle Paul as a "Word from the Lord" or "This is what the Lord says", I think it's fairly clear that they are prophetic words. He probably framed it this way because they were mostly non-believers on the boat.

(Hope I am not harping on about this too much, but note again this warning of disaster says nothing about God's judgement or that it is because of their sin.)

WORD #1 (Prophetic warning of disaster)
Acts 27
10 “Men, I can see that our voyage is going to be disastrous and bring great loss to ship and cargo, and to our own lives also.” 11 But the centurion, instead of listening to what Paul said, followed the advice of the pilot and of the owner of the ship.


Note that the word was ignored.

WORD #2
21 After they had gone a long time without food, Paul stood up before them and said: “Men, you should have taken my advice not to sail from Crete; then you would have spared yourselves this damage and loss. 22 But now I urge you to keep up your courage, because not one of you will be lost; only the ship will be destroyed. 23 Last night an angel of the God to whom I belong and whom I serve stood beside me 24 and said, ‘Do not be afraid, Paul. You must stand trial before Caesar; and God has graciously given you the lives of all who sail with you.’ 25 So keep up your courage, men, for I have faith in God that it will happen just as he told me.

Note that this word was later heeded. (Acts 27:39)

WORD #3
In an attempt to escape from the ship, the sailors let the lifeboat down into the sea, pretending they were going to lower some anchors from the bow. 31 Then Paul said to the centurion and the soldiers, “Unless these men stay with the ship, you cannot be saved.”

People do tend to be more responsive when they have seen previous words come to pass. On this occasion, the word was heeded immediately.

32 So the soldiers cut the ropes that held the lifeboat and let it drift away.

WORD #4
33 Just before dawn Paul urged them all to eat. “For the last fourteen days,” he said, “you have been in constant suspense and have gone without food—you haven’t eaten anything. 34 Now I urge you to take some food. You need it to survive. Not one of you will lose a single hair from his head.”

Again after an act-of-faith encouragement, the word is heeded.

35 After he said this, he took some bread and gave thanks to God in front of them all. Then he broke it and began to eat. 36 They were all encouraged and ate some food themselves.

In another post ( http://www.christianforums.com/t7653838-2/ ) I also mentioned two prophecies by Agabus which would have been discouraging in the short term & one of them made people weep from sorrow.

Acts 21:10-14

New International Version (NIV)

10 After we had been there a number of days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. 11 Coming over to us, he took Paul’s belt, tied his own hands and feet with it and said, “The Holy Spirit says, ‘In this way the Jewish leaders in Jerusalem will bind the owner of this belt and will hand him over to the Gentiles.’”
12 When we heard this, we and the people there pleaded with Paul not to go up to Jerusalem. 13 Then Paul answered, “Why are you weeping and breaking my heart? I am ready not only to be bound, but also to die in Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus.” 14 When he would not be dissuaded, we gave up and said, “The Lord’s will be done.”

And the one that frustrates me to no end is the constant comment that "prophecy is only to be used for the edification of the Body".
I think it is very clear from the scriptures above that prophetic words are not always immediately encouraging, & prophecy is not just for believers.

 

[Firewater]

duplicate post

 

[WeWillSeeHimWhenHeAppears]

Thank you, Firewater. I appreciate what you have shared. The Bible is the defense. But the intimacy comes through personal revelation. Even as we are reading the word, God may speak to us.

Often, people may be blessed reading the word of God, and sense God's presence, not realizing that there is also an interaction taking place between them and the Lord. It's not just the written word, but God's Spirit interacting with them as they read. Awesome!

Jesus says that no one can come to Him, unless the Father draws him (John 6:44). So we can see that in the case of each believer, the Father is actually speaking to them. But still, many fail to understand this. If that's the case (and it is), then why should it be a far stretch to believe that God is continuing to speak to people through dreams and visions? It's too bad that the theology of some people has become "hardened". Here's another one that might interest you. If you Google "No Room For the Prophets fcet", you will find it.

Gracechick, edification can of course come in many forms. It can sometimes come by way of "tough love" which some people reject as edification. Of course, we need to be careful that we are following the promptings of the Holy Spirit. Jesus drove out the money changers and spoke strongly to the Pharisees under the power of the Holy Spirit. So those are instances that we see in which He did not deal the "soft touch." So God can indeed give words of prophecy or revelation that fall into that category. The Lord will call us to deal differently depending on the person we are dealing with. As it has been said by someone, "Jesus came to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable" (original source unknown). When we are speaking to people, are we speaking gently and softly to those who need a strong word? Are we speaking strongly to those who need a gentle word? This is a matter of being in tune with the Holy Spirit, like Jesus was. Prophecy can obviously fall into either of those categories and it takes wisdom and discernment to know how to apply that.

I will share one quick story to put this into perspective (there is a bit of an unexpected twist on this). I once had a dream in which I saw myself blasting a certain man, telling him that he was in danger of being judged by God. In the dream, it was "serious blasting." I thought, "This is just a dream and I will pray about it." I did not think it related to actually speaking with the man (who would want to, anyway?). But as it turned out, that same day, the Lord led me directly to that man! When I opened my mouth to speak with him, only gentle words came out, not harsh ones! As it turns out, the "blasting" was in order to convey to me the severity of the issue. I really did not know how to speak with the man, until I was actually in his presence. Kind of interesting, isn't it? But in other cases, and even ones in which no revelation has been received, the word may be much stronger. So I was not strong with the man, I was gentle. I think it made sense, too. I had no prior relationship with the man (I had never seen him before -- only that very day the Lord spoke to me and showed him to me). So when I opened my mouth, I could not be critical against him. I was gentle. That is the way the Spirit led me. But only in the dream, I knew it was serious. So I ended up telling the man what I saw in the dream. Two weeks later, he was fired. He had been there for five years, and never returned. So the order did come from above. I delivered the message to him, and God did His work. What I delivered to him was a warning. He did not heed the warning, and was let go. The important thing in all of this is to hear correctly, and speak correctly to the person that God has led us to. God will take care of it after that. As we are speaking, God will lead us. In my case, it was very interesting how the words came out.

We need to use wisdom, and seek to be led by the Spirit always. I hope this helps.

 

[MastersPiece]

I am there with you GraceChick .. it can be very frustrating to have people 'buck' you at every turn.
What I find interesting is that the people of the WORLD are more open to hearing dreams, visions & prophetic words than many of God's own people. How did that happen? lol

I am always shocked at the fact that the majority of eye-rolling and weird looks & unbelief when I speak about dreams & prophetic words .. comes from Christians! These are the Christians who want their 'nice quiet simple life' ...and they want to do it their way. Make sure you read the article link I posted at the bottom, it explains a lot about this group of believer.

There is coming a time when there will be such an argument between Christians who believe in all the gifts, and Christians who don't believe in all the gifts that we who DO believe are going to need to let God do our arguing for us. I've been aware of this for some time now. You remember in the bible when the Israelites in the dessert didn't want all the 'noise' of God (He is a noisy God you know).. they didn't like all the noise when God showed up - so they told Moses that HE should meet with God and then tell them what He had to say.. they rejected God's manifest-presence and all the cool STUFF that came with it because they felt it was too 'much' and too 'messy' for them & they backed away from God! .. It's happening again - but woe to those believers who reject His manifest presence this time around..for they too will miss out on the new thing God is bringing to pass in these end days.
“And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled... And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.” Exodus 19:16, 20:18

This article explains it better..it's not very long.. by the recent late Wade E Taylor: A Present Word | wadetaylor.org

 

[gracechick]

Thanks everyone. I'll study these links as I need to be able to respond to those who attempt to poke holes in what the Lord is doing. Seems few want to believe that they're comfortable life of freedom and money is coming to a close as we near Jesus' return. Someone did reply it must be an awful way to live to be aware and preparing for hard times. I did have to learn to live with balance with such knowledge, but I've seen the Lord. I've had brief glimpses of Heaven and can't wait to leave this rock. After my experiences there's nothing here I cannot live without