"In His Name, the Gentiles will trust" - what will "Evolutionist Gentiles" trust in Him?

[Gottservant]

I think why the notion of "a moment of Evolution" works, is that in a sense it is saying "my team has my Evolution (in mind)", the "moment" is a shared moment.

If you can grasp what it is, for your species to develop into a team and confer confidence in your "evolution", you can understand what it is to be "selflessly evolved" - this is something greater, than being evolved at random.

We all start evolved at random, but there comes a point where we have to put that behind us - for the good of Evolution!

The vision for this is simply that every member of the species is stronger, if they anticipate their evolution to work collectively - it is a critical mass, if you will (of Evolution).

 

[The Barbarian]

So the "moment" is something that Evolutionists carry with them: that from the moment they believed Evolution was true, they were able to call Evolution "momentous" - a fact that guided their interpretation from that moment on.

I arrived at this conclusion, after I realized that you cannot evolve an oxymoron - a certain degree of consistency is needed for Evolution to "hang together", a "moment" provides this.

Do you have any idea of what you're talking about? I you do, would you care to enlighten the rest of us?

 

[Gottservant]

Do you have any idea of what you're talking about? I you do, would you care to enlighten the rest of us?

You don't remember the moment, you started to believe Evolution?

I remember believing Jesus would change my life...

You can't be so scientific, you don't remember one moment more than any other - that's just the way memory works!

 

[The Barbarian]

You don't remember the moment, you started to believe Evolution?

I don't "believe in" evolution, like I don't "believe in" a round Earth. I accept those facts on evidence, not faith. I believe in God.

You should, too.

I remember believing Jesus would change my life...

I knew He had changed my life. But God is truth; a Christian should never fear the truth. That fear of truth is at the heart of YE creationism. And it is why so many young Christians become atheists, when they find, having been taught that YE doctrines are essential to Christian belief, that YE creationism cannot be true.

But eventually, by 1994 I was through with young-earth creationISM. Nothing that young-earth creationists had taught me about geology turned out to be true. I took a poll of my ICR graduate friends who have worked in the oil industry. I asked them one question.

"From your oil industry experience, did any fact that you were taught at ICR, which challenged current geological thinking, turn out in the long run to be true? ,"

That is a very simple question. One man, Steve Robertson, who worked for Shell grew real silent on the phone, sighed and softly said 'No!' A very close friend that I had hired at Arco, after hearing the question, exclaimed, "Wait a minute. There has to be one!" But he could not name one. I can not name one. No one else could either. One man I could not reach, to ask that question, had a crisis of faith about two years after coming into the oil industry. I do not know what his spiritual state is now but he was in bad shape the last time I talked to him.

And being through with creationism, I very nearly became through with Christianity. I was on the very verge of becoming an atheist.
Glenn Morton Glenn Morton; His Story

This is the real damage YE does to God's church. YE will have much to answer for at Judgement

I haven't communicated with him in a long time. His website is now down, but his story is on some other OE Christian sites:
Old Earth Creation Science Testimony - Why I Left Young Earth Creationism, by Glenn Morton

 

[Gottservant]

I don't "believe in" evolution, like I don't "believe in" a round Earth. I accept those facts on evidence, not faith. I believe in God.

You should, too.

Yes, but you still remember when you started to believe the world was round, how ever vaguely.

You are asking me to have compunction in a fact, when what I need is a choice.

You are getting further and further from informing me of anything, aren't you? Every time I ask for a foundation to your belief, you just go further into disbelief?

I remember when I started to believe in Jesus, what I am asking is not beyond reason.

 

[The Barbarian]

Yes, but you still remember when you started to believe the world was round, how ever vaguely.

A very gradual awareness. A globe in my parent's house. Too young to wonder why antipodes didn't fall off. By high school I realized gravity was local mediated by the center of mass, not by any actual "up or down." Understanding reasons came later. That's how it works for most people in science.

You are asking me to have compunction in a fact, when what I need is a choice.

Perhaps you don't know what "compunction" means. What do you think it means?

You are getting further and further from informing me of anything, aren't you?

To be enlightened, you'll have to understand yourself, not me.

Every time I ask for a foundation to your belief, you just go further into disbelief?

What's so hard to understand about faith and reason? You're expecting nature to provide you faith, when it can only augment faith at best. If you'd read Genesis 1 and 2 as it is meant to be understood, you'd have no problems with it. The fact that the sequence of things in 1 is different than in 2, is not a concern, because neither is a chronology, but a poetic description of creation, first from God's view of it all, and then a second from Adam and Eve's view of things in the garden. The first is a necessary precondition of the second.

And you won't get it, if you don't take a Christ-centered view of Genesis 1 and 2.
Colossians 1:16 For in him were all things created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominations, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him and in him.

I remember when I started to believe in Jesus, what I am asking is not beyond reason.

I grew up with parents who were believers, so it was always a given for me. As a young man, I did have my dark night of the soul, and came out on the other side with my faith strengthened. However, it was human behavior, particularly behavior of professed believers, that brought me to that pass. It was not His creation, or anything about the way it works that took me there.

And as you see, I generally realized evolution before I was taught about it or read anything detailed about it. Only later did I learn how it actually worked. So gradual.

 

[The Barbarian]

Yes, but you still remember when you started to believe the world was round, how ever vaguely.

Really, I don't. I could not tell you the circumstances or time. I might remember when I started to realize that some kind of development of new species must have happened. I seem to remember a table showing classification of animals in a magazine sometime before I was in middle school. I don't think it said anything about evolution, but it looked like carnivores for example, all fit into some kind of family.

 

[Gottservant]

Really, I don't. I could not tell you the circumstances or time. I might remember when I started to realize that some kind of development of new species must have happened. I seem to remember a table showing classification of animals in a magazine sometime before I was in middle school. I don't think it said anything about evolution, but it looked like carnivores for example, all fit into some kind of family.

Then a resurgence of fact, is what you need?

...a reminder of the detail you thought was relevant at the time?

 

[The Barbarian]

Then a resurgence of fact, is what you need?

...a reminder of the detail you thought was relevant at the time?

That's the nice thing about focusing on facts.

 

[Gottservant]

I think it might be simpler than first expected:

Successive examples of perfection, do not need to be anything (let alone "evolved" - selah)

If the Evolutionist is stumped by a pattern of perfection, there is nothing to persecute, other than that which they already have (Jesus! They have already persecuted Jesus).

What they will need to do, is develop a pattern of "evolved perfection".

 

[Gottservant]

Perhaps what needs to be said, is that Jesus is in Himself, a kind of promise, of what will follow - that is that Jesus is a sort of a promise that better Evolution is still to come?

I don't know, what do you make of that? Is that a promise "God" would honour?

It takes at least the Son revealing Himself, does in not?

 

[The Barbarian]

If the Evolutionist is stumped by a pattern of perfection, there is nothing to persecute, other than that which they already have (Jesus! They have already persecuted Jesus).

What they will need to do, is develop a pattern of "evolved perfection".

It's always been my thought that if someone can't say it simply and plainly, they don't understand what they're talking about.

Classic example.

Perhaps what needs to be said, is that Jesus is in Himself, a kind of promise, of what will follow - that is that Jesus is a sort of a promise that better Evolution is still to come?

I don't know, what do you make of that? Is that a promise "God" would honour?

It takes at least the Son revealing Himself, does in not?

This one, too. Do you have any idea what you're saying? I've seen bots that do better.

 

[Gottservant]

I think maybe Jesus will be a sign to Evolutionist Gentiles, not to jump the gun.

 

[Gottservant]

I wonder, if Man developed from another species despite apes, would Evolution be called "Evolution" or something else?

Like if the newer man was more intelligent, would they need to call it "advanced Evolution"?

 

[Gottservant]

I wonder: does the resurrection of an Evolution, change it?

Like if you are an ape and you die and you come back to life, are you more likely to be a gorilla?

That would make sense, if you did a lot wrong as an ape (you were very aggressive, say) and coming back as a gorilla would diminish the wrong...

 

[Gottservant]

It's always been my thought that if someone can't say it simply and plainly, they don't understand what they're talking about.

Classic example.

No, I am saying "perfect is perfect - no need to perfect it further". You are saying "what do you mean by perfect?"

I mean you really are looking a gift horse in the mouth, when what you could be doing is riding it out into the proverbial sunset.

This one, too. Do you have any idea what you're saying? I've seen bots that do better.

There is a difference between being ready to speak and ready to act, I suspect "Evolution" has convinced you the two are the same thing - otherwise my repeated requests for the reasoning behind Evolution would not have gone unanswered.

I am ready to speak, for Evolution, all you need to do is show me the reasoning that changes between when you do (speak for Evolution) and when you don't ("speak" for Evolution).

 

[Gottservant]

Maybe its something to do with: how strange an Evolution you are able to become?

I mean if all you do is claim that "Evolution becomes more evolved", then the diversity you start with will only grow more strange (estranged from itself)?

There is nothing to suggest that the advent of a species is uniformly able to adapt.

 

[The Barbarian]

Then a "resurgence" means they end up in Hell, while believers and people who trust the faith, do not. I think maybe Jesus will be a sign to creationists would be glad to see "Evolution (in mind)", the "moment" is a shared moment.

If you can grasp what it is to be "selflessly evolved" - this is simply that every member of the species is uniformly able to adapt. But you still remember when you do (speak for Evolution"?

If Man developed from another species to develop into a team and confer confidence in your creationism, you can hate me for my faith in God, you don't have a concept of "what was asked".

Creationists don't have a concept of "what was asked". That doesn't means they end up in Hell, while believers and people who trust the faith more, the science "enough".

Without confusing this then, I do not attempt to limit faith or science, in order to make one work with the other. The thing to avoid, is a science of obfuscation.

 

[Gottservant]

I think what it is, is that we are all given something that we are faced with "giving up", in order to get more.

If we don't at least trust those that know the difference, we will end up like the unfaithful servant who hid his master's money in the ground (instead of investing it).

Evolutionists act like adapting is this great thing, when Creationists have been "students" all along, but it takes someone with real smarts to say that the two can be reconciled.

The two can be reconciled, but not without both parties giving something up.

 

[Gottservant]

I am willing to give up my completeness, to see Evolution work more.

If that sounds cheap or misguided, so be it, but I will not deny my God the Evolution Man says is possible.

Or I will mourn my life that I never tried enough, to bring Man in reach of Man.