• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

In Defense of the Trinity

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Gunny, Oct 31, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Gunny

    Gunny Remnant Supporter

    +85
    Christian
    Married
    In Defense of the Trinity
    MARIO DERKSEN

    Jehovah's Witnesses (JWs) deny the doctrine of the Trinity, that is, that there is one God in three persons. They say the Bible does not teach it, and therefore it is not biblical. Now, as Catholics, we do not believe it MUST be in the Bible. As long as the Bible does not contradict the Trinity, it is a truth that must be held fast to, for the Church teaches it with the authority of Christ. Since JWs do not believe in the authority of the Church, though, I will attempt to justify the concept of the Trinity from the Bible alone:

    We do believe that there is only one God, that God is only one. We do not believe there are three gods. Therefore, all Bible passages that say God is one are irrelevant--we agree. I will now proceed to list and defend certain Bible passages that teach that God is more than one person (namely, three).

    To make it short, the Bible teaches that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God. It also teaches that there is only one God. Ergo, we have three persons in one God.


    Jesus is God

    Luke 1:47: "My spirit rejoices in God my Savior...."
    Who is the Savior? JWs and Catholics and other non-Catholic Christians agree: it's Jesus Christ (cf. Acts 13:23)! And here we read that this Jesus Christ is God. Mary had it totally right--Jesus, God, is her Savior. Instead of "Savior," we can put "Jesus," and the sentence makes perfect sense: "My spirit rejoices in God my Jesus."

    John 20:28: "My Lord and my God!"
    Thomas cries out for joy as he beholds the Lord Jesus...and correctly addresses him as GOD. The original Greek word is theos, which means just that--God. That is, by the way, where we derive the word theology from. The exact same word, theos, is also used in the Greek translation of the Scriptures, in Genesis 1:1, for example.

    Philippians 2:6: "[Jesus], though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped...."
    We read that Jesus is equal to God. Does this necessarily mean he IS God? No. Yet, this is a very important statement we need to keep in mind while we analyze more passages....

    John 10:30: "I and the Father are one."
    Gee, what a statement. JWs interpret it to mean that Father and Son are one in the sense that they are very close, and they refer us to John 17:22, which allegedly shows that. Now, the mistake they make is the context. John 10 and John 17 is seven chapters apart. Furthermore, what is the situation going on in John 10? Let's see... The immediate context is Jesus saying to the Jews that he is coming to save the world. He is the shepherd, and his believers are his flock. Then the Jews challenge him to tell them whether he is the Christ or not. Jesus says that his works testify to that, and he calls God his Father. He then goes on to say that he is one with the Father (10:30). Now, how do the Jews understand this? Do they think that he is just telling them that he is close to the Almighty Lord? Nope. They start stoning him, saying, “It is not for a good work that we stone you but for blasphemy; because you, being a man, make yourself God” (Jn 10:33). --WOW! The Jews realize that Jesus is saying that he is God!! And does Jesus correct them? Does he say, "Hey, guys, don't misunderstand; heck, I am not claiming to be God, I am just saying that I am closely related to Yahweh" ????????? NO! He doesn't correct them. Why not? Because they understood him correctly: he is God. That, in the end, is what Jesus is crucified for: for claiming to be God and thus "blaspheming" the Father, allegedly. So it is plainly clear that Jesus was saying he is God.

    John 12:41: "Isaiah said this because he saw his glory and spoke of him."
    We are told that Isaiah had seen Jesus. When? Where? We can only come up with Isaiah 6:1: "...I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and his train filled the temple." Ergo, Jesus is God.

    John 8:58: "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.'"
    In Exodus 3:14, we read: "God said to Moses, 'I AM WHO I AM.' And he said, 'Say this to the people of Israel, >I AM has sent me to you.<'"
    Here in Jn 8:58, Jesus uses this very same title, I AM, for himself. He dos NOT say, "Before Abraham was, I have been." No, he says, "Before Abraham was, I AM." The exact same Greek word is used in both Exodus 3:15 and Jn 8:58: eimi. In the original Hebrew, the word for "AM" in Exodus 3:14 is hayah, which denotes just the same: to be.

    Revelation 17:14: "They will fight with the Lamb, but the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and king of kings, and those with him are called, chosen, and faithful."
    The Lamb, acc. to this passage, is the "Lord of lords"--a name which is given to the Father, God Almighty, in Deuteronomy 10:17. No other being besides God the Father (and Jesus Christ) has this name--in the entire Scriptures. Jesus Christ is identified with the same title the Father is. Hence, Jesus is God!


    Hebrews 1:8: "But of the Son [the Father says]: 'Your throne, O God, stands forever and ever; and a righteous scepter is the scepter of your kingdom."
    Folks, how much clearer could it get? Jesus Christ is addressed as God. There we have it. Flat out.


    Colossians 2:9: "For in him dwells the whole fullness of the deity bodily...."
    Again, we are told Jesus is God, for "in him dwells the whole fullness of the deity." The Scriptures teach, as the Church does, that Christ is divine. There are more passages in favor of Jesus' divinity, but this should suffice.

    Now, of course, there are passages that seem to diminish Jesus' deity, such as John 14:28 ("the Father is greater than I"). We know that the Scriptures cannot contradict, so there is a solution. And it is easy: Jesus, in the form of a human being, was made lowly (indeed, as Hebrews 2:9 says); so, while on earth, he was less than the Father in that sense; he had stripped himself of all divinity to be born in a lowly manger--in that sense, the Father was greater than him for that time on earth. But Jesus is and was always fully divine--he only humbled himself to become one of us.
    Then there is Matthew 10:17-18, where Jesus seems to deny his divinity: "As he was setting out on a journey, a man ran up, knelt down before him, and asked him, 'Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?' Jesus answered him, 'Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.'" Is Jesus saying he's not God? No, he's saying, "Either I am not good (for only God is good), or I am, and therefore I am God."


    The Holy Spirit is God


    Hebrews 3:7: "Therefore, as the holy Spirit says: 'Oh, that today you would hear his voice, >Harden not your hearts as at the rebellion in the day of testing in the desert....<'"
    We are told that the Holy Spirit said this. Did he? Sure. It is found in Psalm 95:8. We know that Scripture comes from God. God, the Father, is the ultimate author. Now, in Heb 3:7, then, we are told that the Holy Spirit is the author of--at least that little passage of--Scripture. Therefore, the Holy Spirit is God.


    Acts 5:3-4: "But Peter said, 'Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back part of the proceeds of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? How is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.'"
    Peter equates lying to the Holy Spirit with lying to God. Ergo, the Holy Spirit is God. There is no mistaking it. The Trinity is clearly taught in the Scriptures.

    What powerful statements from the Bible, the book that JWs and Mormons and other non-Trinitarians use. The Scriptures are clear, and so is the Church: the Father is God, Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit is God! Glory be to the one God for ever and ever. Amen.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Gunny

    Gunny Remnant Supporter

    +85
    Christian
    Married
  3. Gunny

    Gunny Remnant Supporter

    +85
    Christian
    Married
    IN DEFENSE OF THE TRINITY




    by Alan Yusko

    Every cult and false religion denies in differing ways that the Lord Jesus is God Almighty in human flesh. The doctrine of the Trinity is what makes Biblical Christianity stand alone.

    I heard the late Dr. Walter Martin say several times: 'If you are wrong about God and who He is...you are wrong enough to lose your soul for eternity!'. How true that statement is. Dr. Martin has written several excellent books on the cults and false religions)

    In His Word, the Bible, God has revealed Himself as a Triune God. The definition of the Trinity is as follows: The Bible says there is only one God but within the one God there exist three Divine Persons; God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. These three Divine Persons are the one God.

    This study on the Trinity gives Biblical proof to those who doubt or deny the doctrine of the Trinity. I approach the question by first showing from God's Word that there is only one God. After this point is made, I show that there is a Person called the Father and that He is God. Next, I show that there is a Person called the Son and He is God. Finally, I show that there is a Person called the Holy Spirit and He also is God. Three Divine persons...One God.

    Keep in mind that we as finite men cannot fully understand an infinite God by our own understanding. However, God has revealed Himself to us in His Word and through His Word He is revealed as a Triune God.

    Alan Yusko

    Main Points to cover in this study:
    There is only one God
    God the Father
    God the Son (The Lord Jesus Christ)
    God the Holy Spirit
    The Trinity: One God -- Three Divine Persons


    CHAPTER 1
    The Bible teaches there is only one God
    God reveals in His Word that there is only one God and that no other gods exist apart from Him. The following verses illustrate this fact:

    "Unto thee it was showed, that thou mightest know that the Lord he is God; there is none else beside him" (Deuteronomy 4:35)

    "Ye are my witnesses saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me" (Isaiah 43:10)

    "...I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God....Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any" (Isaiah 44:6,8)

    "I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me:...Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else" (Isaiah 45:5,22)

    "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble" (James 2:19)

    These verses show that there is only one God that exists. Men may call different things gods or worship different objects, but there is only one eternal God who exists apart from His creation.

    CHAPTER 2
    God the Father: the First Person of the Trinity
    This section will show to the reader that there is a Person called the Father and that He is God Almighty. The following are a few of the verses that state that the Father is God:

    "Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)...Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ" (Galatians 1:1,3)

    "Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort" (2 Corinthians 1:2,3)

    "Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" (Ephesians 6:23)

    "And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" (Philippians 2:11)

    "To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord" (2 Timothy 1:2)

    "...Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour" (Titus 1:4)

    "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,...Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ..." (1 Peter 1:2,3)

    "Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love" (2 John 3)

    "...to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called" (Jude 1)

    "Jesus answered, If I honor myself, my honor is nothing: it is my Father that honoreth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God" (John 8:54)

    CHAPTER 3
    God the Son (Jesus Christ): Second Person of the Trinity
    Who is the Son? What does the Bible have to say? Did God take on human form and come to the earth? Did the Lord Jesus claim to be God? We address these questions here.

    "For he received from God the Father honor and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" (2 Peter 1:17)

    This verse shows two things:

    There is a person called the Father and He is God
    There is a person called the Son.


    This section deals with the Second Person of the Godhead, the Lord Jesus Christ. Several scriptures will be examined that deal with the diety of the Lord Jesus. This is an important section since every cult and false religion denies that the Lord Jesus is God in human flesh.

    The apostle John warned: "For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist" (2 John 1:7). Beloved believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world" (1 John 4:1-3). His warning is clear. If someone denies that the Lord Jesus is God in the flesh, that person is a false prophet and an antichrist.

    God the Son became a man and dwelt on earth
    "Behold a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us" (Matthew 1:23)

    "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace" (Isaiah 9:6)

    These verses describe the birth of the Lord Jesus, when God the Son took on flesh and was born on earth. The next three verses give more evidence to the fact that God took on a body and became a man.

    Who became flesh?

    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us" (John 1:1,14)

    ?? Who was the Word? ..... The Word was God

    ?? Who became flesh and dwelt among us? .. The Word (Jesus)

    "And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life" (2 John 5:20)

    "...God was manifest in the flesh..." (1 Timothy 3:16)

    "For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily" (Colossians 2:9)

    Cont'd
     
  4. Gunny

    Gunny Remnant Supporter

    +85
    Christian
    Married
    IN DEFENSE OF THE TRINITY Cont'd

    by Alan Yusko

    Worship and the Diety of the Lord Jesus
    "And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him only shalt thou serve" (Luke 4:6-8)

    In the Bible worship belongs only to God. It is wrong for men or angels to be worshiped. In the above verse the devil wanted the Lord Jesus to worship him but the Lord said only God is to be worshiped. Here is the point, only God is to be worshiped. Now if it can be shown that the Lord Jesus Christ is worshiped then He is God.

    The following verses show that the Lord Jesus is worshiped both on earth in heaven.

    The Lord Jesus is worshiped on earth:

    "While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshiped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live" (Matt. 9:18)

    "And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshiped him" (Matt 28:9)

    The Lord Jesus is worshiped in heaven:

    "And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him" (Heb. 1:6)

    "And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshiped him that liveth for ever and ever" (Rev 5:13,14)

    God's Glory and the Diety of the Lord Jesus
    The following verses show that God will not give His glory to another:

    "I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images" (Isaiah 42:8)

    "For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory to another" (Isaiah 48:11)

    The Lord Jesus is God because He has God's glory:

    "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was" (John 17:5)

    Our Saviour the Lord Jesus Christ
    The following verses show that our Saviour is God and there is none other:

    "I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour" (Isaiah 43:11)

    "...and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else" (Isaiah 45:21,22)

    "...My soul doth magnify the Lord, and my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Savior" (Luke 1:46,47)

    "But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Savior" (Titus 1:3)

    The Lord Jesus is God and He is our Saviour. We read:

    "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:13)

    "For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ" (Phil. 3:20)

    The Diety of the Lord Jesus in Ezekiel
    "Then he brought me back the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary which looketh toward the east: and it was shut. Then said the Lord unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the Lord, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut" (Ezekiel 44:1,2)

    The closing of the Eastern Gate is one of the many fulfillments of Bible prophecy. Notice that the verse says that the Lord the God of Israel hath entered in by it. The Lord Jesus is the Lord the God of Israel. He entered the gate with His triumphal entry a few days before the crucification.

    To know the Lord Jesus is to know God
    "Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also" (John 8:19)

    "If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him" (John 14:7)

    To see the Lord Jesus is to see God
    "And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me" (John 12:45)

    "Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father: and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?" (John 14:9)

    To believe in the Lord Jesus is to believe in God
    "Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me" (John 12:44)

    To receive the Lord Jesus is to receive God
    "Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me" (Mark 9:37)

    To hate the Lord Jesus is to hate God
    "He that hateth me hateth my Father also" (John 15:23)

    To honour the Lord Jesus is to honour God
    "That all men should honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that honoreth not the Son honoreth not the Father which hath sent him" (John 5:23)

    The Lord Jesus Christ is God
    These verses show that God is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, and the first and the last.

    "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty...I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last:..." (Revelation 1:8,11)

    "...I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end..." (Revelation 21:6)

    "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Revelation 22:12,13)

    "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last" (Isaiah 48:12)

    "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his Redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God" (Isaiah 44:6)

    In Revelation chapter 1 we read the following description of the Lord Jesus in His Glory:

    "And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength" (Revelation 1:13-16)

    In the next two verses the Lord Jesus speaks and identifies Himself as God.

    "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore..." (Revelation 1:17,18)

    "And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive" (Revelation 2:8)

    The Lord Jesus who lived, died, and now lives forever identifies Himself as the first and the last. We have already shown that the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, the first and the last refers to God Almighty. The Lord Jesus claims directly to be God in these verses.

    Who is coming? ... God is coming
    "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty" (Revelation 1:8)

    "Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown" (Revelation 3:11)

    "Behold, the Lord God will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him" (Isaiah 40:10)

    "Behold, I come quickly:...And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be, I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Revelation 22:7,12,13)

    We see in the above verses that God Almighty is the one who is coming quickly and has His reward with Him. In the next verse the Lord Jesus is identified as the one who is coming. This gives conclusive proof that the Lord Jesus is God.

    "He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly, Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus" (Revelation 22:20)

    The Lord Jesus is God and He is coming quickly.

    PRAISE GOD!!!



    Cont'd
     
  5. Gunny

    Gunny Remnant Supporter

    +85
    Christian
    Married
    IN DEFENSE OF THE TRINITY Cont'd

    by Alan Yusko

    CHAPTER 4
    God the Holy Spirit: Third Person of the Trinity
    "But a certain man named Ananias with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? While it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God" (Acts 5:1-4)

    "Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord" (2 Cor 3:17,18)

    The Holy Spirit is God and He is the third Divine Person of the Trinity. We see in the first verse that to lie to the Holy Spirit is to lie to God. In the second verse the Holy Spirit is called God.

    The Holy Spirit is a Person with personal attributes

    He speaks
    "Then the Spirit said unto Philip , Go near, and join thyself to this chariot" (Acts 8:29)

    "As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them" (Acts 13:2)

    He wills
    "But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will" (1 Cor 12:11)

    He testifies
    "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me" (John 15:26)

    He intercedes
    "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered" (Romans 8:26)

    He leads
    "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God" (Romans 8:14)

    "But if ye be led by the Spirit, ye are not under the law" (Galatians 5:18)

    He commands
    "Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia, After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not" (Acts 16:6,7)

    He appoints
    "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood" (Acts 20:28)

    He can be blasphemed
    "Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come" (Matthew 12:31,32)

    He can be insulted
    "Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?" (Hebrews 10:29)

    He can be grieved
    "And grieve not the holy Spirit of God whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption" (Ephesians 4:30)

    "But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them" (Isaiah 63:10)

    He teaches
    "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you" (John 14:26)

    He has intellect and understanding
    "But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual with spiritual" (1 Cor 2:10-13)

    He has a mind
    "And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God" (Romans 8:27)

    He is a Personal Being
    Many cults and false religions believe that the Holy Spirit is nothing more that the power of God. They deny that He is a personal Being. The above verses show that He is a Person with personal attributes. He is not the force or power of God.

    For example: electricity is power but it cannot talk. One can stick his finger into a light socket and get power but that power will not give advice or guidance. Radio waves are a form of energy but it is impossible to lie to a radar beam. Radio waves and electricity are both impersonal forms of energy but the Holy Spirit is God Himself...a personal Being.

    The Holy Spirit has God's Attributes

    He is eternal
    "How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself..." (Hebrews 9:14)

    He is all powerful
    "...The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee..." (Luke 1:35)

    "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you:..." (Acts 1:8)

    "Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost....Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God;..." (Romans 15:13,19)

    He creates
    "...And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters" (Genesis 1:2)

    "The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life" (Job 33:4)

    "Thou sendest forth thy Spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth" (Psalm 104:30)

    He is everywhere present
    "Whither shall I go from thy Spirit? Or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold thou art there..." (Psalm 139:7-10)

    He is all knowing
    "But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God .... even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God" (1 Cor 2:10,11)

    "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you" (John 14:26)

    Old Testament and New Testament Comparision
    In this section the Holy Spirit will be shown to be God Almighty as we compare a verse in the Old Testament with its counterpart verse in the New Testament.

    First, let us look at Isaiah 6:8,9 "Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me. And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not". In this verse God gave Isaiah a commission to go and speak to the children of Israel.

    Now lets look at the counterpart verse in the New Testament. "...Well spake the Holy Ghost by Isaiah the prophet unto our fathers, Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:" (Acts 28:25,26).

    When these two verses are compared it can be easily seen that the Holy Spirit the one who is speaking and He is God.

    We read in Jeremiah 31:31-34 "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was a husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more". I think that it is clear that it is God Almighty who is talking in this verse.

    Next, we compare this verse with Hebrews 10:15-17 "Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more". Again, it is clearly shown that the Holy Spirit is God Almighty as He is the one speaking in each verse.

    This section has shown that the Holy Spirit is a Divine Person with personal attributes. He is not a mindless power or the force of God. He is God Almighty, the Third Person of the Trinity.

    CHAPTER 5
    The Trinity: One God --- Three Divine Persons
    Hinted in the Old Testament
    "And God said, Let US make man in our image, after our likeness..." (Genesis 1:26)

    "And the Lord God said, Behold the man is become as one of US, to know good and evil:..." (Genesis 3:22)

    "...let US go down, and there confound their language..." (Genesis 11:7)

    The Trinity: Revealed in baptism
    "And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: and there came a voice from heaven, saying, thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" (Mark 1:9-11). This verse shows the Father speaking, the Son being baptized, and the Spirit descending.

    "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:19)

    The Trinity: Revealed in salutations
    "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:..." (1 Peter 1:2)

    "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen." (2 Cor 13:14)



    Cont'd
     
  6. Gunny

    Gunny Remnant Supporter

    +85
    Christian
    Married
    IN DEFENSE OF THE TRINITY Cont'd

    by Alan Yusko

    The Trinity in the Resurrection
    The Father raised the Lord Jesus
    "Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities"
    (Acts 3:26)

    "And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus which delivered us from the wrath to come" (1 Thess 1:10)

    The Lord Jesus raised Himself
    "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up....But he spake of the temple of his body" (John 2:19,21)

    The Holy Spirit raised the Lord Jesus
    "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you" (Romans 8:11)

    The previous verses show that the Father raised the Lord Jesus, the Lord Jesus raised Himself, and the Holy Spirit raised the Lord Jesus. The Trinity is shown in the resurrection.

    This final verse shows that it was God Almighty who raised the Lord Jesus: "Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead" (Acts 17:31). Remember, there is one God: three Divine Persons.

    "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one" (1 John 5:7)

    FINAL WORDS
    I hope this study has been helpful in giving you, dear reader, a better understanding of the Doctrine of the Trinity. Use it wisely to stand against those who would distort and pervert God as revealed in the Bible. Remember, if a person is wrong about God and who He is, then he is wrong enough to lose his soul forever and is a path of destruction to others!

    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God....And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us..." (John 1:1,14)

    "For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist" (2 John 1:7)

    "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world" (1 John 4:1-3)

    "But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them" (2 Cor 4:3-4)

    "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed" (Galatians 1:8,9)

    DO YOU KNOW THE LORD JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOUR?
    "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23)

    "Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon" (Isaiah 55:7)

    "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8)

    "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 6:23)

    "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed" (Isaiah 53:5)

    "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" (Romans 10:13)

    "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16)

    "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name" (John 1:12)

    SINNERS PRAYER
    Lord Jesus, I admit that I am a sinner and I ask You to come into my life to forgive and save me. I now receive You as my Saviour (trusting in You ALONE to save me) and my Lord making You my Master and committing my life to You). Thank You for Your blood that cleanseth me from all sin. Take control and cleanse my life from everything that is sin in Your eyes.
     
  7. Gunny

    Gunny Remnant Supporter

    +85
    Christian
    Married
  8. Gunny

    Gunny Remnant Supporter

    +85
    Christian
    Married
  9. Gunny

    Gunny Remnant Supporter

    +85
    Christian
    Married
  10. franklin

    franklin Sexed up atheism = Pantheism

    +218
    Atheist
    Private
    Wow sarge, your the first guy I know of who answers his own threads!!&nbsp; LOL !!&nbsp;&nbsp; Here's a site you need to look into, if you have the courage to read it!&nbsp; But be warned, after you do, you might be trashing the trinity!

    http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/5257/one.htm

    &nbsp;
     
  11. Gunny

    Gunny Remnant Supporter

    +85
    Christian
    Married


    Juan Baixeras, the airline pilot states the standard Christadelphian position on the Trinity and the deity of Christ.

    I shall not be denying the deity of Jesus or the trinity, this day, due to the various writings of the Christadelphian airline pilot residing in Miami, Florida.
     
  12. OldShepherd

    OldShepherd Zaqunraah

    +165
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Others
    [dd]Here is a quote from Franklin's wonderful link.

    • Lord (kyrios) - Most people when they hear this title think immediately of God Almighty. As we covered earlier, God’s name is YHWH. This should not be confused with the title kyrios (Lord), which was used for Jesus throughout his whole ministry. Trinitarians will argue that this title of Jesus’ confirms his divinity, but even before his resurrection people addressed him as Lord. Why? For the same reason that many other people in the Bible and in his day were addressed as Lord. It was a title of authority and respect. Moses is referred to as lord in Numbers 32:27:

      "The Gadites and Reubenites answered Moses, Your servants will do as you command, my lord."

      1 Samuel 1:26 – "Hannah, his mother, approached Eli and said: Pardon, my lord! As you live, my lord, I am the woman who stood near you here."

      1 Samuel 24:9 –"David stepped out of the cave, calling to Saul, My lord and my king."

      As Scripture proves, Moses, Eli, and Saul are referred to as lord, but this does not mean that they are God. It is a title of authority and respect. There are many more verses like these. The Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible volume 3 pg. 960 states:

      Lord - its meaning signified nothing more than "sir," a title of respect, or to "master,"
    [dd]What is wrong with this picture? The author derfines the Greek word Lord, i.e KurioV, then uses passages from the O.T. to try to prove his argument. Excuse me? The word used in the O.T. testament passages is the Hebrew, NOT Greek word, &#1488;&#1491;&#1493;&#1504;&#1497;.
     
  13. franklin

    franklin Sexed up atheism = Pantheism

    +218
    Atheist
    Private
    Yes OS,&nbsp;it is a wonderful link!&nbsp; Maybe you should visit it more often!&nbsp;&nbsp; You might learn something.&nbsp;&nbsp;U2 Sarge.....&nbsp; &nbsp;
     
  14. OldShepherd

    OldShepherd Zaqunraah

    +165
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Others
    Oh yes so wonderful in fact that the guy who wrote it does not know the difference between Hebrew and Greek, which is what I was pointing out. This site is supposed to make me believe something about the Trinity? I can't learn anything from a person who doesn't even know that the O.T. was written in Hebrew and the N.T. was written in Greek.
     
  15. SonWorshipper

    SonWorshipper Old Timer

    +29
    Messianic
    Can I just ask one question?

    YWHW = Father
    Y'shua = Son
    ? = Holy Spirit
     
  16. OldShepherd

    OldShepherd Zaqunraah

    +165
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Others
    Does your question imply that the Trinity does not, cannot exist because you don't know the name of the H.S.?

    &#1512;&#1493;&#1495; &#1492;&#1511;&#1491;&#1513; = Holy Spirit
     
  17. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +0
    The three 'persons' are supposed to be EQUAL, right? Then, IF the Father deserves a name and the Son deserves a name, why CAN'T the Holy Spirit LIKEWISE deserve a name?

    The Trinity dctrine is therefore, FALSE!

    Ed
     
  18. lared

    lared Active Member

    936
    +12
    The Holy Spirit is Almighty God's active force.
     
  19. SonWorshipper

    SonWorshipper Old Timer

    +29
    Messianic
    Yeshua breathed the Holy Spirit upon the Apostles upon His return from the dead.
     
  20. Na_resume

    Na_resume bee

    17
    +0
    Yes, but even this can be taken too far---and is. Anything can be taken to foolish extremes, even if the person so taking it is convinced that he is not doing so, or that it can't be done for a particular thing. Most Trinitarians who make this claim that Mr. Martin makes do not know that God is either three or ten persons. They simply have accepted, some of them out of fear of being denmad, as to what the Bible says about it.&nbsp; If the only copies of the Bible that they had were altered so as to compel the idea that God is ten persons, then these people would accept it. They would be Decitarians as surely they are now Trinitarians.

    But, such a blindness, or such a simple ignorance, does not mean that the thing believed in is not true, for anything can be so accepted. In fact, the world would end tomorrow, literally, if little children were to be as "scientific" about what their elders tell them as is secular man of what the Bible says.

    Is it a true picture of God to think that each of the Divine Persons is God when considered alone? Or, is it a true picture of God to think that each of the Divine Persons is God only in relation to the other two Divine Persons? If each of the Divine Persons is God, and if there is only one God, then it must be a false picture of God to think that each of the Divine persons is God when considered alone. The Doctrine of Mutual Indwelling was arrived at as the answer to this problem.

    Then how do we know that God is triune? Why not, say, deciune? And, how do we know that God's triune-ness is that of three persons? Why not, say, three rocks? This latter question is rather easily answered if we understand how the Adamic mind tends to work. The Adamic mind is the natural mind, and we all have it and use it, even when we do not realize it (virtually every Trinitarian I know of does so, without knowing it, in&nbsp; defending the Trinity). The Adamic mind is *not* explained as the natural mind, for what is the natural mind? Contrary to most Christains, the natural mind is not anti-spiritual, rather, it is *un*-spiritual. The Adamic mind is the way of thinking that is most natural to man, namely the way of thinking that is made for man's dominion over the earth. This way of thinking assumes that something that is thought about is made of something else. Adam is good at taking things apart, but he also tends to view holistic things as collections of discrete parts. God is not made up of disparate parts. God is *one indivisible* entity. The fact that the finite mind of man tends to think of things as parts, "bolted" together, as it were, does not necessarily mean that a particular thing is a logically synthetic product of logically prior parts taken from various bins of the respective parts.

    God is a person, and each of the three dimensions of what a person is are fully personal. A person is not a logically synthetic entity. Nor is personhood defined by synonyms such as "I", much less as an "I, thou" relationship. The "I, thou" relationship does not even begin to define a person as such, it simply assumes it and then puts the problem further back, just like is done by the panspermia version of evolutionism. The three dimensions of the foundation of reality are the three dimensions of a person, and this triune foundation is the triune standard of proof. The "omnipotence paradox" is simply the Adamic mind assuming to have found a weakness in the truth of power and, in so finding, he is far more hypocritical than he has realized. The Adamic mind, when combined with a proud heart, is like a blind and deaf blood hound who, with his nose to the ground, follows the scent one plodding inch at a time (the "best conclusion from the current evidence"), while the critter who has made the scent trail has come up behind him and is bitting him in the hind legs trying to get him to turn around and see his quarry. "No", says the hound, "there is no critter, there is only a mindless scent, made by nothing but the dirt. There is no such thing as the superscental"

    &nbsp;
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...