In Context

icxn

Bραδύγλωσσος αἰπόλος μαθητεύων κνίζειν συκάμινα
Dec 13, 2004
3,092
885
✟210,855.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
By disobeying God's commandment not to eat of the forbidden fruit. As a result he and all of us i.e. human nature became subject to corruption and death.
 
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
22,444
8,397
up there
✟303,917.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
By disobeying God's commandment not to eat of the forbidden fruit. As a result he and all of us i.e. human nature became subject to corruption and death.

You mean they put their will ahead of God's will, introducing selfishness to the mix, and broke what would be Jesus' first commandment, and set God and us on a continuing course of man's will vs God's will throughout history and the Bible???
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

All4Christ

✙ The Handmaid of God Laura ✙
CF Senior Ambassador
Supporter
Mar 11, 2003
11,682
8,018
PA
Visit site
✟1,013,527.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Don't you mean they put their will ahead of God's will and broke what would be Jesus' first commandment, and set God and us on a continuing course of man's will vs God's will throughout history and the Bible???
I’m pretty sure ixon meant exactly what the post said (though ixon can confirm or deny that).

Adam broke the command of God: to not eat the fruit of the tree of life. This caused death and corruption to enter this world. God became man so to make mankind “right” with God and to restore the image of God in mankind. The passage below pretty much sums up the gospel.

Romans 5:12-21 said:
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
 
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
22,444
8,397
up there
✟303,917.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
They broke the command of God: to not eat the fruit of the tree of life.

Yes and that was putting their own will ahead of God. They still refuse to reject the self serving will of their own making and do as God commanded in loving all neighbours as self. Again Bible cover to cover shows the back and forth between man and God and man's continual refusal to submit to the will of God. It's like potty training a kid but at least with kids most do learn. Mankind putting God's will first, not so much so.
 
Upvote 0

All4Christ

✙ The Handmaid of God Laura ✙
CF Senior Ambassador
Supporter
Mar 11, 2003
11,682
8,018
PA
Visit site
✟1,013,527.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Yes and that was putting their own will ahead of God. They still refuse to reject the self serving will of their own making and do as God commanded in loving all neighbours as self. Again Bible cover to cover shows the back and forth between man and God and man's continual refusal to submit to the will of God. It's like potty training a kid but at least with kids most do learn. Mankind putting God's will first, not so much so.
The point of the gospel is not that mankind continued in willful disobedience, but that through one man - Jesus, we are given the gift to become righteous and to overcome that disobedience, corruption and death. It is the triumph over sin, not a hopeless battle.
 
Upvote 0

icxn

Bραδύγλωσσος αἰπόλος μαθητεύων κνίζειν συκάμινα
Dec 13, 2004
3,092
885
✟210,855.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
Don't you mean they put their will ahead of God's will and broke what would be Jesus' first commandment, and set God and us on a continuing course of man's will vs God's will throughout history and the Bible???
Isn't that what disobedience means? Part of the corruption of our nature is the tendency to sin (disobey God), the will of the flesh, the garments of skin, the passions (sicknesses) of the soul, the thorns and the thistles that make it hard to cultivate the bread that nourishes our soul, which is obedience to and communion with God.

Of course Christ, the bread of life has changed all that.
 
Upvote 0

All4Christ

✙ The Handmaid of God Laura ✙
CF Senior Ambassador
Supporter
Mar 11, 2003
11,682
8,018
PA
Visit site
✟1,013,527.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Galatians 20:20

I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Triumph over sin; triumph over the willfulness of man; triumph over death and corruption.
 
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
22,444
8,397
up there
✟303,917.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
The point of the gospel is not that mankind continued in willful disobedience, but that through one man - Jesus, we are given the gift to become righteous and to overcome that disobedience, corruption and death. It is the triumph over sin, not a hopeless battle.

He opened the door to the Kingdom but the choice of who's will is first is still ours. No lover's of the will of man in the Kingdom. A tough call for those whose allegiance is to nations that refuse to follow God's will and churches which re-aligned themselves with the State contrary to the Gospel of the Kingdom.
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,342
26,788
Pacific Northwest
✟728,246.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
In other words a story of the will of man vs the will of God.

If by "the will of man" you mean our sinful will that is turned against God, and by "the will of God" you mean God's loving compassion to heal, rescue, and redeem us and all creation in spite of our waywardness.

Otherwise I meant exactly what I said.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
22,444
8,397
up there
✟303,917.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
If by "the will of man" you mean our sinful will that is turned against God, and by "the will of God" you mean God's loving compassion to heal, rescue, and redeem us and all creation in spite of our waywardness.

If that is a fancy way of saying our way of selfishness vs His will of selflessness for us. :)
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,342
26,788
Pacific Northwest
✟728,246.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
If that is a fancy way of saying our way of selfishness vs His will of selflessness for us. :)

You seem to really want to shoehorn everything into your own personal view.

I mean that God loves us and all creation, and isn't going to allow our own rebellious, sinful, destructive desires get in the way of His love and purpose for all that He made. In the beginning He saw all which He made and declared it "exceedingly good", and He's going to keep His word on that.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,342
26,788
Pacific Northwest
✟728,246.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
No need to turn into a religion the simplicity that Jesus taught the simple.

At least here you are starting to be more honest about your motives. This was a clandestine way to try and peddle your own views.

The reason why it is a religion is because Jesus made it one. If you have an issue with this, take it up with Him.

-CryptoLutheran
 
  • Agree
Reactions: All4Christ
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
22,444
8,397
up there
✟303,917.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
The reason why it is a religion is because Jesus made it one. If you have an issue with this, take it up with Him.

No He didn't. Self willed man made the religion and copied every institution of man that went before it in building it.
Jesus established a way of living with each other in order to show worthiness of salvation. No sense saving that which remained adversarial in the first place and refused to repent of their self serving ways.
 
Upvote 0

All4Christ

✙ The Handmaid of God Laura ✙
CF Senior Ambassador
Supporter
Mar 11, 2003
11,682
8,018
PA
Visit site
✟1,013,527.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
He opened the door to the Kingdom but the choice of who's will is first is still ours. No lover's of the will of man in the Kingdom. A tough call for those whose allegiance is to nations that refuse to follow God's will and churches which re-aligned themselves with the State contrary to the Gospel of the Kingdom.
I’m not sure what you are referencing with “allegiance to nations that refuse to follow God’s will and churches which re-aligned themselves with the State contrary to the Gospel of the Kingdom”. I could guess, but I’m hoping I’m wrong.

And yes, of course it is still our choice to follow Him. God doesn’t force us.

(If you are trying to say that churches like Orthodox, Catholic, Lutheran, Anglican, etc are unbiblical; I suggest you read the Statement of Purpose for Traditional Theology.)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,342
26,788
Pacific Northwest
✟728,246.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
No He didn't.

"When you pray, pray this way, 'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be Your name..."
"On this rock I will build My Church."
"Make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, teaching them all which I have told you."
"You believe in God, believe also in Me."

"Definition of religion

1a : the state of a religious a nun in her 20th year of religion
b(1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural
(2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
"

-CryptoLutheran
 
  • Like
Reactions: All4Christ
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
22,444
8,397
up there
✟303,917.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
(If you are trying to say that churches like Orthodox, Catholic, Lutheran, Anglican, etc are unbiblical;

No Christian church is 'unbiblical'. It is those within that cause the problems. There are always the two sides within no matter what institution we look to or even the world as a whole actually. There will always be those of the world and those of the Kingdom.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums