Mid Acts Dispensationalist Only In Christ before Paul?

yellowMan

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Hey I've been listening to some MAD sermons lately and trying to wrap my head around it. MAD *seems* to imply that Paul was the first person added into the Body of Christ "creature" in the mid Acts time frame. Also this verse strongly implies it as well:

1Ti 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

But then we also have this:
Rom 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

To me this implies that either:
1) Jews following the Gospel of the Kingdom can be considered to be "in Christ" which may not be the same as being "in the Body of Christ"?
or
2) The Body of Christ existed before Paul was placed into it.

Any thoughts? Thanks.
 

Presbyterian Continuist

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Here is the Scripture in context:

"5 Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. 16 But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen." (1 Timothy 1:5-17).

When we see the context, we see that Paul is not talking about him being the first member of the body of Christ. He is saying that he was the worst sinner of everyone who was and is saved by the grace of God. He is saying that if he, as the worst sinner, who persecuted the church of Christ, having Christians killed and imprisoned, can be saved by the grace of God, then anyone can. His message is that it doesn't matter how far into sin anyone has gone, the grace of God can reach them and save them to the uttermost.
 
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JackRT

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Hey I've been listening to some MAD sermons lately and trying to wrap my head around it. MAD *seems* to imply that Paul was the first person added into the Body of Christ "creature" in the mid Acts time frame. Also this verse strongly implies it as well:

1Ti 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

But then we also have this:
Rom 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

To me this implies that either:
1) Jews following the Gospel of the Kingdom can be considered to be "in Christ" which may not be the same as being "in the Body of Christ"?
or
2) The Body of Christ existed before Paul was placed into it.

Any thoughts? Thanks.

The Pastoral letters (Titus, 1 Timothy and 2 Timothy) are attributed to Paul, but someone writing in Paul’s name wrote them around AD120, some 60 years after Paul’s death.
 
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paul1149

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1Ti 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
The Greek doesn't necessarily mean first chronologically:

- Original: πρῶτος
- Transliteration: Protos
- Phonetic: pro'-tos
- Definition:
1. first in time or place
a. in any succession of things or persons
2. first in rank
a. influence, honour
b. chief
c. principal
3. first, at the first​

Accordingly, you can see how many have chosen to translate it to deemphasize the time meaning.
/1tim - Bible Gateway 1.16
 
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Mathetes66

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The Pastoral letters (Titus, 1 Timothy and 2 Timothy) are attributed to Paul, but someone writing in Paul’s name wrote them around AD120, some 60 years after Paul’s death.

Prove it & give your sources.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Throughout the NT the translators consistently translate the Greek proposition "eis" as in rather than the correct rendering as "into." Years ago (in the 90s) I wrote a booklet detailing the great difference this translation makes in our teaching and understanding. For instance, John 3:16 is considered by many to be the greatest single verse in the NT as pertains to the gospel. Yet it this very mistranslation can be found here.

John 3:16 (LITV)
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that everyone believing into Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

2 verses later:

John 3:18 (LITV)
18 The one believing into Him is not condemned; but the one not believing has already been condemned, for he has not believed into the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Jesus is here referring to our being baptized into Him, His death, burial, and resurrection. A very misunderstood passage IMHO. So many think that the preceding verse where He was "lifted up" refers to the cross, where in reality it refers to the lifting up of his spirit in the resurrection. As with Moses and the standard, those who looked on the serpent were "given life for it." Not death (the cross) rather life (eternal life i.e. the resurrection).

This "believing into" phraseology is similar to what Paul wrote in the epistles.
All these referring to our being baptized (by faith) into the spirit of Christ and His death, burial, and resurrection. Commonly called by Paul "being in Christ."

Rom 6:
3 Or are you ignorant that all who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?

Galatians 3: (LITV)
26 for you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many as were baptized into Christ, you put on Christ.


Galatians 3:27 (LITV)
27 For as many as were baptized into Christ, you put on Christ.

Colossians 2:12-13
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;


But I think John 3:16 is the first instance where we see the teaching about our "believing into Him."
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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The Pastoral letters (Titus, 1 Timothy and 2 Timothy) are attributed to Paul, but someone writing in Paul’s name wrote them around AD120, some 60 years after Paul’s death.
We don't really know that. The copy we have might have originated from AD120, and we don't know where the original is because it has been lost, like the other original manuscripts of the New Testament before the 4th Century AD. The "higher criticism" that suggests that the letters may not have been written by Paul came about some time in the 19th Century by liberal theologians who did not believe that the New Testament was inspired by the Holy Spirit. But by the Third Century AD, these letters were well and truly verified by the principal bishops of the early church as being quite genuinely written by Paul.
 
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JackRT

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But by the Third Century AD, these letters were well and truly verified by the principal bishops of the early church as being quite genuinely written by Paul.

And what were their conclusions based on?
 
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Hey I've been listening to some MAD sermons lately and trying to wrap my head around it. MAD *seems* to imply that Paul was the first person added into the Body of Christ "creature" in the mid Acts time frame. Also this verse strongly implies it as well:

1Ti 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

But then we also have this:
Rom 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

To me this implies that either:
1) Jews following the Gospel of the Kingdom can be considered to be "in Christ" which may not be the same as being "in the Body of Christ"?
or
2) The Body of Christ existed before Paul was placed into it.

Any thoughts? Thanks.

Hi and if anyone was " in Christ" before Paul than the Body of Christ began before Paul was saved in Acts 9:6 .

#2 , In Rom 16:7 Paul mentions Rom 16:3-15 and I seem that many MISS verses 11 , 12 , 13 , does not say that they are " in Christ " BUT that they were " in the LORD ".

#3 Paul also mentions the following " in the LORD " 6 X .

#4 " IN WHOM , 6 X

#5 " IN THE LORD JESUS " 6 X

#6 " IN JESUS , 1 X

#7 " IN HIMSELF " 2 X

#8 " IN CHRIST , 31 , 31 X

#9 Have you read 1 Thess 2:14 , yet or Acts 9:31 ?

dan p
 
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