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In case you *still* believe the lies about wide spread voter fraud......

Discussion in 'General Politics' started by Michael, Feb 3, 2021.

  1. Michael

    Michael Contributor Supporter

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    Former White House communications director Alyssa Farah said that Trump simply lost the election and he lied about there being any evidence of wide spread voter fraud.

    This is verified by the fact that Attorney General Bill Barr and the justice department also looked into those allegation and they found no such evidence.

    Disputing Trump, Barr says no widespread election fraud

    Both of these individuals were hired by Trump and they were (perhaps still are) loyal to Trump, leaving only in the last part of the administration.

    Furthermore, a more recent campaign "postmortem" study also verifies the conclusion that Trump lost the election because most people simply didn't trust Trump anymore, and they believed that he seriously botched the Covid-19 epidemic response. That's not surprising either since Trump has admitted to downplaying the seriousness of the virus.

    Trump pollster's campaign autopsy paints damning picture of defeat

    https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000177-6046-de2d-a57f-7a6e8c950000

    There's simply no reliable evidence to support the belief in wide spread voter fraud. Over sixty court cases were simply tossed out right out of court, and no evidence of fraud was found to be credible.

    The last election was no different than any other election in terms of voter fraud. Trump simply lost. Period.
     
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  2. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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  3. Michael

    Michael Contributor Supporter

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    And I should believe and trust her because......?
     
  4. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    Who said that... ??

    Just interested if any serious assessment of her claims has been made...
     
  5. Jamsie

    Jamsie Well-Known Member Supporter

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    "In mid-November, the Reuters Fact Check team debunked similar false social media claims of election interference out of Europe. Posts claimed the U.S. military had raided the offices of electronic voting company Scytl in Germany to seize their servers for evidence of manipulation in the 2020 U.S. election (here). Scytl confirmed that it they had not been raided by the U.S. army and does not have offices in Germany. Some #ItalyGate posts referred to this false theory, saying data was moved from “Rome to Frankfurt.”

    Fact check: Evidence disproves claims of Italian conspiracy to meddle in U.S. election (known as #ItalyGate)
     
  6. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    And we should trust you because.......?
     
  7. Michael

    Michael Contributor Supporter

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    You don't need to trust me at all. You can choose to believe in the county clerks, the Governors of the various states who all certified their results. You can believe Bill Barr, Trump's own hand picked AG. You can believe Alyssa Farah because she worked at the White House and she had first hand knowledge of the discussions surrounding the election. You can choose to believe in the court system, or the constitution. By all of those accounts and standards, Trump simply lost, and there is no credible evidence of fraud, or Barr would have said so.
     
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  8. Dave G.

    Dave G. Well-Known Member

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    Should believe CNN because ? Fox because ? They all spin news like a washing machine in the spin cycle. Or withhold as the case may be, use cut clips with half truths. The news networks today are terrible.
     
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  9. Michael

    Michael Contributor Supporter

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    What difference does it make where Alyssa Farah was interviewed? What do *her personal* experiences and opinions have to do with which news organization interviewed her? Would her opinions have changed if she was interviewed by Fox rather than CNN? What "cut clips" are you talking about?

    What difference does it make which News organization interviewed Barr or Farah? Did the AP change either of their opinions about the election results in some way?

    None of the three sources that I cited in this thread have anything to do with any specific news organization, regardless of which one(s) reported the *news*. You can't ignore what Bill Barr *reported*, and what Alyssa Farah reported, just because you personally distrust various news organizations.
     
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  10. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    Good, I don't. Don't care about the rest of it
     
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  11. tulc

    tulc loves "SO'S YER MOM!! posts!

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    ...than why respond at all to a thread you don't seem to have any interest in?
    tulc(is just curious)
     
  12. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    That it exactly what I was looking for thanks.
     
  13. .Mikha'el.

    .Mikha'el. Young Fogie Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    Please give it up. The people who sincerely believe it by now have the idea so thoroughly ingrained in their heads that nothing you say or do or try to tell them will convince them otherwise.
     
  14. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Trust the court system? How many times have you heard about someone who has spent years in prison being released because irrefutable evidence has been brought to light which exonerated them?
    Trust the governors? Didn't one of those guys just get caught in illegal activity? Here is a list of 11 governors convicted of crimes.
    Working at the white house is no guarantee honesty and loyalty.
     
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  15. Michael

    Michael Contributor Supporter

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    I'm not trying to convince them, I'm simply providing them with some testimony of people who were not biased in any way, and who had the inside scoop, and who *might* actually convince them if they listen to their testimony.

    People like Bill Barr are the 'most' credible types of witnesses because they are Republicans, who were in a position to know whether there was actual evidence of voter fraud. Bill Barr seems like a pretty credible witness in this particular case because he's been accused of acting as Trump's own personal attorney. If he has any bias, it's in *favor* of Trump. So if the AG and pretty close friend of Trump said there was no evidence of voter fraud that could affect the outcome in any way, I'm inclined to believe him, and take him at his word. I might even personally distrust Bill Barr on some other topic, but I see no logical reason to doubt the accuracy of his testimony in this case.

    Likewise, Allysa Farah was working in the Whitehouse, before and after the election, and she had privy to the various conversations between the different parties. She's also a Republican, and she even seems to support Trump's *conservative ideas*, if not the man himself. If you listen to her, she tries hard not to bad mouth Trump, she's just honest about the fact that he lied about the election results. Again, I have every reason to believe she's a credible witness that would have an inside view of what actually happened.

    That last reference is also a rather unbiased and frank explanation of what changed between the 2016 election and the 2020 election, particularly in terms of swing states. It too comes to the conclusion that Trump lost because voters lost confidence in his honesty, and lost confidence in his leadership skill with respect to how he handled Covid-19. That's ultimately what cost him the election, and it explains why he lost so badly in both the electoral college as well as the popular vote.

    These are three very 'credible' testimonies from people who have no particular axe to grind with the GOP or with Trump. They paint a clear picture of what happened too IMO.

    Trump lied about not only the election being rigged, but he doubled down on his lies by falsely asserting that the office of the Vice President has the power to change electoral college results. The VP doesn't even have a vote in the matter.

    Trump lied by suggesting that anything or anyone could change the outcome of the election after the electoral college had *certified* those results, and long before they were brought before the congress. In a scenario where the house is run by the opposite party, there is no logical possibility of the outcome of the election changing between the certification process by the states, and January 6th.

    On the day that the states certified their results, even Mitch McConnell stopped lying about voter fraud, or questioning who was going to be the next President.

    Allysa Farah reached the point that she could no longer participate in disseminating any misinformation about voter fraud or election results and she left.

    All of this is very credible evidence that Trump has been lying to his supporters all along, he incited them to anger with deceit and lies. He summoned the angriest among them to Washington DC on the 6th, knowing that it was not constitutionally possible to change the outcome of the election, and he lied to them by falsely claiming that Mike Pence had some sort of capacity to change the outcome of the elections that day. Trump had his personal lawyer tell the angry mob that he wished to see "trial by combat'. Another of Trump's speakers called for them to take names and kick ass. Trump whipped them up into an absolute frenzy, lied again when he said he would join them at the capitol, and the slunk off to his office to watch the show.

    It turned violent. He did nothing. Not a peep, not a tweet for hours. When he *finally* put out a tweet, it wasn't to chastise or admonish them for their actions. He didn't condemn their actions at all in fact. Instead he claimed to 'love' them, and told them they were 'special'.

    Only *days* later did Trump actually condemn their actions, and according to press accounts (many of them), Pence had to get the national guard in motion to the Capitol because Trump had not already done so!

    All of what happened on January 6th was completely avoidable. All Trump had to do is concede defeat graciously like every other losing candidate in my lifetime. That's hard emotionally of course, and it requires humility. Trump wasn't strong enough, or emotionally mature enough to be humble when it was necessary.

    Instead his narcissism and pride cost the lives of five Americans, and caused the beating of many Capitol police, and the death of an officer.

    That is incitement to violence.
     
  16. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    And we should trust CNN of all people?

    Not I.
     
  17. returntosender

    returntosender EL ROI

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    He made a lot of enemies of the corrupt. They aren't going to have friendly fire.
    I can only think that you who won't accept that you won are fearful and I wonder why?
     
  18. Michael

    Michael Contributor Supporter

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    I'm not asking you to trust CNN, I'm asking you to trust Alyssa Farah. The media outlet of the interview is irrelevant. Why don't you believe her?

    Why don't you believe Bill Barr?

    Barr: No evidence of fraud that would change election outcome
     
  19. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I didn't say I didn't say I believed her or did not believe her, At this point, although I think Trump had every reason not to trust the system, I think it is likely there was no widespread fraud.

    I think.
     
  20. Michael

    Michael Contributor Supporter

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    Well, Alyssa didn't think so either, and she finally quit when her job conflicted with her moral values. She told it like it was.

    Trump had legal remedies at his disposal and they all failed. Any rational and humble individual would have simply conceded the election and none of this would happened. Instead Trump lied to and deceived his followers and those lies generated a lot of anger and hostility in the minds of his supporters. He then summoned the angriest of them to DC to do his bidding, and he lied to them some more before he ordered them to march on down to the capitol for 'trail by combat'.
     
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