In Arminianism, God excludes some people from salvation

[cygnusx1]

Never heard of original sin? Who created it if God created all things good in the beginning?

Sin isn't created , it's the absence of the created .

 

[FreeGrace2]

"No, the heart is that God created the human race antagonistic to Him,"

This is not the heart of Calvinism.

I asked this:
Doesn't Calvinism claim that total depravity means that no one seeks God and that all hate Him???
Why do you ignore the question?

That you think so shows that, despite all your time here on CF, you still only know your straw man view of Calvinism. I honestly cannot see how trying to correct you further will be of any benefit. You may continue to call this a dodge. I frankly do not care.

Seems you don't care to have an actual discussion, either. Ignoring questions only demonstrates that you don't have answers, or that the obvious answers aren't convenient to you. All of which seems rather intellectually dishonest.

I demonstrated how what Calvinism claims directly leads to what I call the "heart" of Calvinism. And you provided absolutely zero reason not to believe what I pointed out.

 

[FreeGrace2]

They aren't the same thing. God "creating the human race antagonistic to him" (a false view of Calvinism) is not the same thing as God being sovereign over all events. God created the human race "good". That's what it says in my bible.

If God created the human race "good", then why does Calvinism believe that there is none that seek God, and that apart from God's hand of regeneration, man hates God? Which is just another way to say "antagonistic".

Let me ask you this question:
Is the human race born antagonistic towards God? Yes or no.

 

[Hammster]

If God created the human race "good", then why does Calvinism believe that there is none that seek God, and that apart from God's hand of regeneration, man hates God? Which is just another way to say "antagonistic".

Let me ask you this question:
Is the human race born antagonistic towards God? Yes or no.

No. Genesis 1.

 

[FreeGrace2]

No. Genesis 1.

I said BORN, not created. Gen 1 doesn't address anyone BORN.

Again, is the entire human race (fallen because of Adam) BORN antagonistic to God?

 

[Hammster]

I said BORN, not created. Gen 1 doesn't address anyone BORN.

Again, is the entire human race (fallen because of Adam) BORN antagonistic to God?

Men are born in sin. That's the orthodox doctrine of original sin.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Men are born in sin. That's the orthodox doctrine of original sin.

OK. Again, is the entire human race (fallen because of Adam) BORN antagonistic to God?

 

[OzSpen]

Sin isn't created , it's the absence of the created .

Try telling that to Adam and Eve. I'm using 'created' in the sense of an action done.

 

[Hammster]

OK. Again, is the entire human race (fallen because of Adam) BORN antagonistic to God?

I've answered. Maybe you have a different view of what sin is, but my answer is sufficient.

 

[Hammster]

Try telling that to Adam and Eve. I'm using 'created' in the sense of an action done.

Then your question makes even less sense, now. Perhaps you could reword it, or give more detail as to the information you are seeking.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I've answered. Maybe you have a different view of what sin is, but my answer is sufficient.

You didn't answer. You just kep asking questions.

But if you did, obviously I missed it. How difficult would it be to just repeat your answer, rather than to just play games?

 

[Hammster]

You didn't answer. You just kep asking questions.

But if you did, obviously I missed it. How difficult would it be to just repeat your answer, rather than to just play games?

Men are born in sin. That's the orthodox doctrine of original sin.

 

[cygnusx1]

Try telling that to Adam and Eve. I'm using 'created' in the sense of an action done.

Satan sinned first

 

[FreeGrace2]

Men are born in sin. That's the orthodox doctrine of original sin.

Yes, I know that. And that didn't answer my question, so if that was your so-called answer, you haven't answered it yet.

Again, is the entire human race BORN antagonistic to God? Or not?
Would you please provide a simple yes or no response?

 

[Hammster]

Yes, I know that. And that didn't answer my question, so if that was your so-called answer, you haven't answered it yet.

Again, is the entire human race BORN antagonistic to God? Or not?
Would you please provide a simple yes or no response?

It did answer your question. It seems, though, that you don't see sin as antagonistic towards God.

 

[FreeGrace2]

It did answer your question. It seems, though, that you don't see sin as antagonistic towards God.

Ok, so you simply won't admit that you agree with me.

In #440, you posted:
I've never made fun of the idea that God would love those who don't love Him. That is the heart of Reformed Theology.

In $441, I said this:
No, the heart is that God created the human race antagonistic to Him, so He had to arbitrarily select a few, change them against their will, so that they will love Him back. If that isn't RT, please take it apart point by point.
And you never did. But now you are admitting that the human race is antagonistic to Him. And per RT, God arbitrarily selected a few, changed them against their will, so that they love Him back.

In #442, I said this:
Did any of the selected ones (according to RT) want the change He makes in them? Of course not. So it's against their will.

On what basis does He select these few? For no apparent reason. Therefore, totally arbitrary and capricious.

That does not describe the loving God of Scripture. Not even close.

To which, your reply:
This shows that you really don't understand Calvinism.

No explanation, just a one-liner opinion. Why haven't you taken my points apart one by one to show me how I'm wrong.

Reason? You can't. So you resort to one-liners.

You never corrected me. All you did was disagree.

 

[Hammster]

Ok, so you simply won't admit that you agree with me.

In #440, you posted:
I've never made fun of the idea that God would love those who don't love Him. That is the heart of Reformed Theology.

In $441, I said this:
No, the heart is that God created the human race antagonistic to Him, so He had to arbitrarily select a few, change them against their will, so that they will love Him back. If that isn't RT, please take it apart point by point.
And you never did. But now you are admitting that the human race is antagonistic to Him. And per RT, God arbitrarily selected a few, changed them against their will, so that they love Him back.

In #442, I said this:
Did any of the selected ones (according to RT) want the change He makes in them? Of course not. So it's against their will.

On what basis does He select these few? For no apparent reason. Therefore, totally arbitrary and capricious.

That does not describe the loving God of Scripture. Not even close.

To which, your reply:
This shows that you really don't understand Calvinism.

No explanation, just a one-liner opinion. Why haven't you taken my points apart one by one to show me how I'm wrong.

Reason? You can't. So you resort to one-liners.

You never corrected me. All you did was disagree.

How many times do you suppose this has been explained to you?

 

[OzSpen]

Satan sinned first

You avoided answering my question, thus giving me a red herring fallacy.

And did God cause Satan's sinning to happen? Or, was God the author of Satan's sinning?

 

[Hammster]

Try telling that to Adam and Eve. I'm using 'created' in the sense of an action done.

Then your question makes even less sense, now. Perhaps you could reword it, or give more detail as to the information you are seeking.

 

[OzSpen]

Then your question makes even less sense, now. Perhaps you could reword it, or give more detail as to the information you are seeking.

And your response is making less sense to me.

I was replying to:

Originally Posted by cygnusx1

Sin isn't created , it's the absence of the created .
​

My response to cygnusx1 as OZ was: Try telling that to Adam and Eve. I'm using 'created' in the sense of an action done.

Now I say it again: For Adam and Eve, sin was created because it was a response in which they did evil - a creation or DOING/ACTION by Adam & Eve.