Impossible to go to heaven if you deny OSAS

[Bible Highlighter]

Uh huh. So I have to continue trusting in order to continue being saved, so OSAS is false. The sin that will separate me from God is unbelief.

Jesus seemed to think that the sin of lusting after a woman was enough to cause a person to be in danger of being cast bodily into hell fire (Matthew 5:28-30). Not sure why people do not believe Jesus on this one, though. My guess is that they do not like what He was teaching here.

 

[5thKingdom]

Only scripture affirms that we are saved as a result of accepting Jesus. Salvation isn't unconditional.

Can you show me ONE VERSE that teaches any man
can "accept" Jesus?

.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Can you show me ONE VERSE that teaches any man
can "accept" Jesus?

.

Yes, I can. It is written:

“And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.” (Jeremiah 29:13).

“Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.” (Matthew 11:28).

“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:” (John 1:12).

“As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:” (Colossians 2:6).

“He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.” (Matthew 10:40).

“And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.” (Matthew 18:5).

“Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.” (Revelation 3:20).

“And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.” (Revelation 22:17).

 

[renniks]

Can you show me ONE VERSE that teaches any man
can "accept" Jesus?

.

This is an obvious one:
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:” (John 1:12).

 

[5thKingdom]

First, if you don't believe in Calvin's Unconditional Election that God elects certain people based on no conditions whatsoever and they regenerated before they exercise faith in Jesus, then how exactly does a person initially get saved? Does a person have free will to choose the Lord Jesus Christ? If not, then that would be Calvinism whether you do not like to ascribe to such a belief system or not.

(1) First, Calvin did not invent the doctrine of Unconditional election
(or particular Atonement for that matter). These are Biblical
doctrines taught 1500 years before Calvin was born.


Jesus said NO MAN can come to Him unless the Father first
"draws" them... and He will raise them up on the last day.
[Jn 6:44]


Jesus also said ALL MEN the Father gives Him "shall come"
to Him, that He will cast out NONE of them and He will raise
all of them on the last day [Jn 6:37,39]


So the doctrine of election was not invented by Calvin, it was
taught by JESUS about 1500 years before Calvin was born.


It is interesting that, when His disciples realized Jesus was
teaching salvation by election MANY of them abandoned Him
[Jn 6:65-66]


Now, why on earth would anyone abandon the Son of God?
Of course the answer is simple: they did not WANT a salvation
plan where God is Sovereign. They (like most men today)
wanted a salvation plan where MAN gets to initiate the process.
Where MAN is Sovereign and decides when/where/how he will
be saved.


We see that Paul clearly understood election:


Rom 9:11
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done
any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to
election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth


Did you notice what the PURPOSE of election is?
Not of works... but of God who calleth. And Eph 1 says
we are elected "before the foundation of the world "according
to His good pleasure"... having "predestinated us" unto the
adoption of His children.


Eph 1:4-5
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation
of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him
in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children
by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure
of his will,


You wonder how people can be regenerated BEFORE they have
"faith" in Jesus. But the Bible insists that "faith" does not come
from man... it is a GIFT given to the elect by God.


Eph 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that [faith is]
NOT OF YOURSELVES: it is THE GIFT of God: Not of works,
lest any man should boast.


You wonder
"...how exactly does a person initially get saved?"
As we have just seen; God elects whom He wills before
the foundation of the world - not because of some work they
will do, but only of His Good Pleasure. Then, at some point in
that person's life God "draws" them to Christ and GIVES them
the faith to become saved and "indwells" them with His Spirit.


Next you wonder about "free will".
Of course man has "free will". However, because we are born
spiritually DEAD we always want to sin. We freely sin. We sin
on our own "free will". And because of that the Bible teaches
NONE will ever "seek" God - no, not even one. [Rom 3:10-12]
Which is WHY God must elect us and GIVE us faith.


.

 

[5thKingdom]

This is an obvious one:
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:” (John 1:12).

That is so cute (or deceptive) of you to OMIT the CONTEXT
of the verse... which is shown in v13


Joh 1:13
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh,
nor of the will of man, but of God.


I asked you (and I quote)
Can you show me ONE VERSE that teaches any man
can "accept" Jesus?

Not only did you substitute the word "receive" for "accept"
you intentionally OMITTED the CONTEXT of the verse which
states salvation is NOT of man's will.

So you have NOT shown me even ONE VERSE that teaches
man can "accept" Christ (without the Father "drawing" them)
Would you like to try again?

I can tell you there are NO VERSES in the Bible that teach
men (who are spiritually DEAD) can decide to "accept" Jesus...
Instead, the Bible teaches that all (real) repentance is the RESULT
(not the cause) of regeneration. And the Bible teaches that faith
is a GIFT from God and not something unsaved men can create.

So you blew your first try...
care to try again?

.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

(1) First, Calvin did not invent the doctrine of Unconditional election
(or particular Atonement for that matter). These are Biblical
doctrines taught 1500 years before Calvin was born.


Jesus said NO MAN can come to Him unless the Father first
"draws" them... and He will raise them up on the last day.
[Jn 6:44]


Jesus also said ALL MEN the Father gives Him "shall come"
to Him, that He will cast out NONE of them and He will raise
all of them on the last day [Jn 6:37,39]


So the doctrine of election was not invented by Calvin, it was
taught by JESUS about 1500 years before Calvin was born.


It is interesting that, when His disciples realized Jesus was
teaching salvation by election MANY of them abandoned Him
[Jn 6:65-66]


Now, why on earth would anyone abandon the Son of God?
Of course the answer is simple: they did not WANT a salvation
plan where God is Sovereign. They (like most men today)
wanted a salvation plan where MAN gets to initiate the process.
Where MAN is Sovereign and decides when/where/how he will
be saved.


We see that Paul clearly understood election:


Rom 9:11
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done
any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to
election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth


Did you notice what the PURPOSE of election is?
Not of works... but of God who calleth. And Eph 1 says
we are elected "before the foundation of the world "according
to His good pleasure"... having "predestinated us" unto the
adoption of His children.


Eph 1:4-5
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation
of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him
in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children
by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure
of his will,


You wonder how people can be regenerated BEFORE they have
"faith" in Jesus. But the Bible insists that "faith" does not come
from man... it is a GIFT given to the elect by God.


Eph 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that [faith is]
NOT OF YOURSELVES: it is THE GIFT of God: Not of works,
lest any man should boast.


You wonder
"...how exactly does a person initially get saved?"
As we have just seen; God elects whom He wills before
the foundation of the world - not because of some work they
will do, but only of His Good Pleasure. Then, at some point in
that person's life God "draws" them to Christ and GIVES them
the faith to become saved and "indwells" them with His Spirit.


Next you wonder about "free will".
Of course man has "free will". However, because we are born
spiritually DEAD we always want to sin. We freely sin. We sin
on our own "free will". And because of that the Bible teaches
NONE will ever "seek" God - no, not even one. [Rom 3:10-12]
Which is WHY God must elect us and GIVE us faith.

If looks like a duck and sounds like a duck, chances are it is a duck.
If your belief looks like Calvinism and sounds like Calvinism, chances are your belief is Calvinism (Whether you want to reject the name of that belief system or not).

Anyways, before I address any further posts by you, please go back and address what I said in posts #120, and #123. Normal conversations generally are a two way street, and not a one way street.

 

[5thKingdom]

Not true. It is written:


“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:” (John 1:12).

.

You have shown two problems:

(1) First, you do not understand the CONTEXT of verses.
When you show me a verse about someone who is ALREADY
SAVED and you pretend the CONTEXT of the verse is the unsaved
then you only embarrass yourself. You must show me verses that
have a CONTEXT of unsaved men "accepting" Jesus. None exist.

(2) Secondly you do not understand the CONTEXT of the verses
you offer... or you do understand and are being deceptive.
You offered John 1:12 as a "PROOF"... and you OMITTED
the CONTEXT which is shown in the NEXT verse.. verse 13


Joh 1:13
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh,
nor of the will of man, BUT OF GOD.


I asked you (and I quote)
Can you show me ONE VERSE that teaches any man
can "accept" Jesus?

Not only did you substitute the word "receive" for "accept"
you intentionally OMITTED the CONTEXT of the verse which
states salvation is NOT of man's will.

So you have NOT shown me even ONE VERSE that teaches
man can "accept" Christ (without the Father "drawing" them)
Would you like to try again?

I can tell you there are NO VERSES in the Bible that teach
men (who are spiritually DEAD) can decide to "accept" Jesus...
Instead, the Bible teaches that all (real) repentance is the RESULT
(not the cause) of regeneration. And the Bible teaches that faith
is a GIFT from God and not something unsaved men can create.

So you blew your first try...
care to try again?

Remember the ground rules:
(1) You cannot show verses about men already saved.
(2) You cannot show verses and OMIT the Context showing
salvation is NOT of the will of man.

.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You have shown two problems:

(1) First, you do not understand the CONTEXT of verses.
When you show me a verse about someone who is ALREADY
SAVED and you pretend the CONTEXT of the verse is the unsaved
then you only embarrass yourself. You must show me verses that
have a CONTEXT of unsaved men "accepting" Jesus. None exist.

(2) Secondly you do not understand the CONTEXT of the verses
you offer... or you do understand and are being deceptive.
You offered John 1:12 as a "PROOF"... and you OMITTED
the CONTEXT which is shown in the NEXT verse.. verse 13


Joh 1:13
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh,
nor of the will of man, BUT OF GOD.


I asked you (and I quote)
Can you show me ONE VERSE that teaches any man
can "accept" Jesus?

Not only did you substitute the word "receive" for "accept"
you intentionally OMITTED the CONTEXT of the verse which
states salvation is NOT of man's will.

So you have NOT shown me even ONE VERSE that teaches
man can "accept" Christ (without the Father "drawing" them)
Would you like to try again?

I can tell you there are NO VERSES in the Bible that teach
men (who are spiritually DEAD) can decide to "accept" Jesus...
Instead, the Bible teaches that all (real) repentance is the RESULT
(not the cause) of regeneration. And the Bible teaches that faith
is a GIFT from God and not something unsaved men can create.

So you blew your first try...
care to try again?

Remember the ground rules:
(1) You cannot show verses about men already saved.
(2) You cannot show verses and OMIT the Context showing
salvation is NOT of the will of man.

.

A person receives God of their own free will and then God makes them born again. So there is no contradiction here. You are also not addressing the other verses that refute your belief here, as well. Why would Jesus knock on the door of a person's heart in Revelation 3:20? Why would Jesus say “Come to me” if Jesus forces salvation upon them? You are simply not reading and believing plainly your Bible.

Side Note:

Besides, if a person receives Jesus according to John 1:12, then this means that they were not forced against their will to be mind wiped by God to be saved. The very idea of a person receiving something implies free will. If I give you a gift, you have to receive it. It's not forced upon you. God's grace is compared to a gift that we can gain access to by faith.

Have you ever encountered a person who did not receive a gift that you wanted to give to them?

In other words, receiving implies free will.
If things are as you say, then it would not use the word “receive” (which is a similar word to accept), but it would say as many as were mind wiped by God gave he the right to become the sons of God. But the Scriptures do not say that.

 

[5thKingdom]

If looks like a duck and sounds like a duck, chances are it is a duck.
If your belief looks like Calvinism and sounds like Calvinism, chances are your belief is Calvinism (Whether you want to reject the name of that belief system or not).

Really?
Did Calvin teach about the five "Kingdoms of Heaven" on earth?
Did Calvin teach the Final Harvest is NOT from the church age?
Did Calvin teach what the LAST SIGN on earth would be?
Did Calvin teach what Daniel's Abomination represents?
Did Calvin teach about the "Season and Time" on earth?
Did Calvin teach about the four "watches of the night"?
Did Calvin teach about the Christian church being cut-off?
Did Calvin teach the fulfillment of Babylon the Great?
Did Calvin teach about the Gospel of the Last Saints?

(1) First, I already understood salvation by election YEARS
before I even heard Calvin's name.

(2) Second, I teach so many doctrines that Calvin never taught.

(3) Third, I showed you where JESUS and PAUL teach what I teach
and you call that "Calvinism"... as a method of disparaging me.
Be honest and call it what it is Biblical Truth.

Just because I understood what JESUS taught and what the
BIBLE teaches does not make me a follower of Calvin... it
makes me a follower of the BIBLE.

You just want to label me so as to discredit me without dealing
with the doctrines I teach. Just another strawman you build
for yourself.

.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Really?
Did Calvin teach about the five "Kingdoms of Heaven" on earth?
Did Calvin teach the Final Harvest is NOT from the church age?
Did Calvin teach what the LAST SIGN on earth would be?
Did Calvin teach what Daniel's Abomination represents?
Did Calvin teach about the "Season and Time" on earth?
Did Calvin teach about the four "watches of the night"?
Did Calvin teach about the Christian church being cut-off?
Did Calvin teach the fulfillment of Babylon the Great?
Did Calvin teach about the Gospel of the Last Saints?

(1) First, I already understood salvation by election YEARS
before I even heard Calvin's name.

(2) Second, I teach so many doctrines that Calvin never taught.

(3) Third, I showed you where JESUS and PAUL teach what I teach
and you call that "Calvinism"... as a method of disparaging me.
Be honest and call it what it is Biblical Truth.

Just because I understood what JESUS taught and what the
BIBLE teaches does not make me a follower of Calvin... it
makes me a follower of the BIBLE.

You just want to label me so as to discredit me without dealing
with the doctrines I teach. Just another strawman you build
for yourself.

.

No. You need to address my other posts in their entirety before I reply to you further.

 

[5thKingdom]

No. You need to address my other posts in their entirety before I reply to you further.

So it is not enough for me to show 2 or 3 errors in your posts...
you want me to spend time showing EACH error?

I already told you that you are not showing the CONTEXT of verses
like quoting John 1:12 and HIDING John 1:13

I already told you that you are quoting verses about people who are
already saved - and pretending the verse applies to the unsaved.

Sorry buddy... if you show me 15 errors I only need to show you
how one or two is wrong. I do not need to spend HOURS showing
how EACH is wrong.

I asked you to show ONE VERSE that teaches unsaved men
can "accept" Jesus (without being "drawn" by the Father)
do not send me 15 verses because I will only show you
one or two that are false - and that discredits the rest.

Show me ONE VERSE (as I asked) and I will respond to that.
Send me 15 or 20 verses and I will only respond to one or two.
I have other things to do... so pick your "proof" verses carefully.

BTW John 1:12 was a BAD CHOICE
because verse 13 shows your error.

.
.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So it is not enough for me to show 2 or 3 errors in your posts...
you want me to spend time showing EACH error?

I already told you that you are not showing the CONTEXT of verses
like quoting John 1:12 and HIDING John 1:13

I already told you that you are quoting verses about people who are
already saved - and pretending the verse applies to the unsaved.

Sorry buddy... if you show me 15 errors I only need to show you
how one or two is wrong. I do not need to spend HOURS showing
how EACH is wrong.

I asked you to show ONE VERSE that teaches unsaved men
can "accept" Jesus (without being "drawn" by the Father)
do not send me 15 verses because I will only show you
one or two that are false - and that discredits the rest.

Show me ONE VERSE (as I asked) and I will respond to that.
Send me 15 or 20 verses and I will only respond to one or two.
I have other things to do... so pick your "proof" verses carefully.

BTW John 1:12 was a BAD CHOICE
because verse 13 shows your error.

.
.

Okay. You don't understand what the word “receive” even means.

Receive:
(verb):

1. to get, accept, take, or acquire something; be a recipient

Source:
Receive dictionary definition | receive defined

For if a person receives Jesus according to John 1:12, then this means that they were not forced against their will to be mind wiped by God to be saved. The very idea of a person receiving something implies free will. If I give you a gift, you have to receive it. It's not forced upon you. God's grace is compared to a gift that we can gain access to by faith.

I mean have you ever encountered a situation where you witnessed a person who did not receive a gift that another wanted to give to them?

If a person forced a gift upon another person by putting a gun to their head to keep the gift, and they did not want this gift, then they technically did not technically receive such a gift, but it was forced upon them at gunpoint.

In other words, receiving implies free will.
If things are as you say, then it would not use the word “receive” (which is a similar word to accept), but it would say as many as were mind wiped by God gave he the right to become the sons of God. But the Scriptures do not say that.

 

[5thKingdom]

A person receives God of their own free will and then God makes them born again. So there is no contradiction here.

That is what you say... but you have not sent ONE VERSE
that proves that.

.

 

[5thKingdom]

For if a person receives Jesus according to John 1:12, then this means that they were not forced against their will to be mind wiped by God to be saved. t.

Then be honest enough to INCLUDE verse 13 which says
the person does NOT receive Jesus on his own... he is
(how did you put it?) "mind wiped by God".


Joh 1:13 Which were born, NOT of blood,
NOR of the WILL OF THE FLESH,
NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN,
but of God.


When you use John 1:12 as your "proof text"
then you are dead in the water because the CONTEXT
of that verse is in verse 13 which contradicts your theory
and specifically states it is NOT of the WILL OF MAN...
BOOM (your dead)... it's only by the Will of God.


Likewise... when you use verses that talk about people who
are ALREADY SAVED... you cannot apply those verses to those
who are still unsaved.


This is very basic stuff buddy.
I don't know why you are having a problem.


If men can save themselves by some "work"...
saying the sinner's prayer, or making an altar call,
or receiving water baptism, or repenting, or asking
Jesus to come into their heart, or "accepting"...


Then you should EASILY have proof texts showing
this reality. John 1:12 was a terrible choice because
verse 13 shows the CONTEXT which contradicts you...
don't you have ONE VERSE to prove your gospel?



.

 

[5thKingdom]

If a person forced a gift upon another person by putting a gun to their head to keep the gift, and they did not want this gift, then they technically did not technically receive such a gift, but it was forced upon them at gunpoint.

.

Strawman

/

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Strawman

/

Okay. Try looking up words like “receive” in the dictionary for yourself. It does not suggest that a person is being mind wiped or anything. I have to ask. Do you make it a habit to study English words regularly? Well, I have been, and I would encourage you to do so. It will help you to see words in what they really say instead of what you want them to say.

 

[5thKingdom]

In other words, receiving implies free will.

If I deposited $1000 in your bank account without telling you
about this GIFT. There was no "accepting" by you.
That is how "faith" is:

Eph 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith;
and that [faith is] not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.


.

 

[5thKingdom]

Okay. Try looking up words like “receive” in the dictionary for yourself. It does not suggest that a person is being mind wiped or anything. I have to ask. Do you make it a habit to study English words regularly? Well, I have been, and I would encourage you to do so. It will help you to see words in what they really say instead of what you want them to say.

The dictionary is now your Bible?
Just send ONE VERSE that teaches any man can "accept" Christ.
Why is that so hard for you?

(Hint: because no such verse exists)

.

 

[renniks]

That is so cute (or deceptive) of you to OMIT the CONTEXT
of the verse... which is shown in v13


Joh 1:13
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh,
nor of the will of man, but of God.


I asked you (and I quote)
Can you show me ONE VERSE that teaches any man
can "accept" Jesus?

Not only did you substitute the word "receive" for "accept"
you intentionally OMITTED the CONTEXT of the verse which
states salvation is NOT of man's will.

So you have NOT shown me even ONE VERSE that teaches
man can "accept" Christ (without the Father "drawing" them)
Would you like to try again?

I can tell you there are NO VERSES in the Bible that teach
men (who are spiritually DEAD) can decide to "accept" Jesus...
Instead, the Bible teaches that all (real) repentance is the RESULT
(not the cause) of regeneration. And the Bible teaches that faith
is a GIFT from God and not something unsaved men can create.

So you blew your first try...
care to try again?

.

Typical Calvinist attitude. Does God give you that when you are irresistibly caused to be a Calvinist?
Yes, the verse says salvation is all done by God. It also says it only happens if we first receive him.