Impossible to go to heaven if you deny OSAS

[BibleBeliever1611]

Those who deny the doctrine of "Once Saved Always Saved" claim that they also believe in Jesus. But if you believe that you must maintain salvation by living a good life, how is that compatible with believing in Jesus? If you must meet a certain goal to be saved, then you must have faith in yourself that you are able to meet that goal. So instead of having faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, you are having faith in yourself and your good works.

What does it mean to have faith in something? It means to trust. For example, if you have faith in your favorite football team, it means that you trust that team and you believe that the team will win. You could say: "I believe in this team!" That's kind of what it means to believe in Jesus. It means to trust Jesus that he will save you, no matter what happens in your life. It's pretty simple.

This is why it's crucial to believe in eternal security. If you believe that you can lose your salvation, then you are not saved because haven't put all of your faith in Jesus Christ yet.

And then people respond by saying something like this: "You just want to have licence to sin!"

Well, better to have a licence to sin because the Bible says that if we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. And that also applies to saved people. If we didn't have a licence to sin, we would all go to hell. So good luck if you want to be without a licence.

 

[Jeshu]

i think a crucial part is forgotten here. It is written the sinner shall die for his/her sin, sin is never saved we are saved from it.

To be saved from sin doesn't give us a license to sin but rather that we flee it and seek our safety in Jesus Christ not sinning.

This has nothing to do with good works but it has everything to do with being build anew by heaven. The earthly person does earthly sin the heavenly person brings heavenly praise.

i think any person who has struggled against sin and found The Lord as helper does not continue in sin but flees from it. Like Paul says. "What shall we say then lets sin so grace abounds? No way we died to sin how can we sin any longer?"

Being busy loving God and neighbour are are those things that keep us from thinking we are saved regardless and keep freely sinning, for then we prove to ourselves we have an unregenerated heart, and still don't understand that Jesus will save us from our sin, but not in our sin.

The Holy Spirit sets us free from the slavery of sin This is what proves our faith like nothing else does.

 

[disciple Clint]

Those who deny the doctrine of "Once Saved Always Saved" claim that they also believe in Jesus. But if you believe that you must maintain salvation by living a good life, how is that compatible with believing in Jesus? If you must meet a certain goal to be saved, then you must have faith in yourself that you are able to meet that goal. So instead of having faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, you are having faith in yourself and your good works.

What does it mean to have faith in something? It means to trust. For example, if you have faith in your favorite football team, it means that you trust that team and you believe that the team will win. You could say: "I believe in this team!" That's kind of what it means to believe in Jesus. It means to trust Jesus that he will save you, no matter what happens in your life. It's pretty simple.

This is why it's crucial to believe in eternal security. If you believe that you can lose your salvation, then you are not saved because haven't put all of your faith in Jesus Christ yet.

And then people respond by saying something like this: "You just want to have licence to sin!"

Well, better to have a licence to sin because the Bible says that if we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. And that also applies to saved people. If we didn't have a licence to sin, we would all go to hell. So good luck if you want to be without a licence.

There is nothing inconsistent with believing in salvation by grace through faith without believing in osas. Time to do a little study about theology

 

[BibleBeliever1611]

There is nothing inconsistent with believing in salvation by grace through faith without believing in osas. Time to do a little study about theology

If I could lose salvation if I didn't live right, then I would need to have faith in myself and in my lifestyle if I wanted to go to heaven.

If having faith in yourself is required for salvation, at least be honest enough to admit that if that's what you believe. But of course you won't admit that because it sounds too bizarre in light of the biblical gospel.

 

[disciple Clint]

If I could lose salvation if I didn't live right, then I would need to have faith in myself and in my lifestyle if I wanted to go to heaven.

If having faith in yourself is required for salvation, at least be honest enough to admit that if that's what you believe. But of course you won't admit that because it sounds too bizarre in light of the biblical gospel.

No as I said you need to do a little study in theology. It is absolutely clear that we are not saved by works, we are saved by the righteousness of Jesus if we believe in Jesus and what He did for us on the cross we are saved, unless we reject that salvation we will continue to be saved by our faith and His grace. This has nothing to do with osas that is a Calvinist view, there are many people who believe in the Calvinist view but there are many people who do not agree with his theology that however does not make them any less saved. We are saved by Jesus not Calvin.

 

[ChetSinger]

We clearly aren't saved by our works (Ephesians 2:8). How could we be? But if no works are seen in someone's life you have to wonder if faith is there (James 2:26). And I want to thank Dr. Michael Heiser for bringing clarity to me about this subject that I had lacked for years.

 

[Basil the Great]

Those who deny the doctrine of "Once Saved Always Saved" claim that they also believe in Jesus. But if you believe that you must maintain salvation by living a good life, how is that compatible with believing in Jesus? If you must meet a certain goal to be saved, then you must have faith in yourself that you are able to meet that goal. So instead of having faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, you are having faith in yourself and your good works.

What does it mean to have faith in something? It means to trust. For example, if you have faith in your favorite football team, it means that you trust that team and you believe that the team will win. You could say: "I believe in this team!" That's kind of what it means to believe in Jesus. It means to trust Jesus that he will save you, no matter what happens in your life. It's pretty simple.

This is why it's crucial to believe in eternal security. If you believe that you can lose your salvation, then you are not saved because haven't put all of your faith in Jesus Christ yet.

And then people respond by saying something like this: "You just want to have licence to sin!"

Well, better to have a licence to sin because the Bible says that if we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. And that also applies to saved people. If we didn't have a licence to sin, we would all go to hell. So good luck if you want to be without a licence.

Your thesis would appear to doom the Early Church, as there is no evidence to indicate that they believed in OSAS. To the contrary, they were very concerned about committing grave sins after Baptism.

 

[RaymondG]

Those who deny the doctrine of "Once Saved Always Saved" claim that they also believe in Jesus. But if you believe that you must maintain salvation by living a good life, how is that compatible with believing in Jesus? If you must meet a certain goal to be saved, then you must have faith in yourself that you are able to meet that goal. So instead of having faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, you are having faith in yourself and your good works.

What does it mean to have faith in something? It means to trust. For example, if you have faith in your favorite football team, it means that you trust that team and you believe that the team will win. You could say: "I believe in this team!" That's kind of what it means to believe in Jesus. It means to trust Jesus that he will save you, no matter what happens in your life. It's pretty simple.

This is why it's crucial to believe in eternal security. If you believe that you can lose your salvation, then you are not saved because haven't put all of your faith in Jesus Christ yet.

And then people respond by saying something like this: "You just want to have licence to sin!"

Well, better to have a licence to sin because the Bible says that if we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. And that also applies to saved people. If we didn't have a licence to sin, we would all go to hell. So good luck if you want to be without a licence.

Do you believe that it is possible for you to sin, after being "saved"? If so, than you have no eternal security......For God has no part in sin. "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning." If you believe that "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." ....then your argument can stand...

 

[BibleBeliever1611]

We clearly aren't saved by our works (Ephesians 2:8). How could we be? But if no works are seen in someone's life you have to wonder if faith is there (James 2:26). And I want to thank Dr. Michael Heiser for bringing clarity to me about this subject that I had lacked for years.

So we are not saved by doing works, but if you don't do any works, then you are not saved by not doing any works? My head hurts...

 

[ChetSinger]

So we are not saved by doing works, but if you don't do any works, then you are not saved by not doing any works? My head hurts...

No, that's not what I said.

 

[Charis55]

Those who deny the doctrine of "Once Saved Always Saved" claim that they also believe in Jesus. But if you believe that you must maintain salvation by living a good life, how is that compatible with believing in Jesus? If you must meet a certain goal to be saved, then you must have faith in yourself that you are able to meet that goal. So instead of having faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, you are having faith in yourself and your good works.

What does it mean to have faith in something? It means to trust. For example, if you have faith in your favorite football team, it means that you trust that team and you believe that the team will win. You could say: "I believe in this team!" That's kind of what it means to believe in Jesus. It means to trust Jesus that he will save you, no matter what happens in your life. It's pretty simple.

This is why it's crucial to believe in eternal security. If you believe that you can lose your salvation, then you are not saved because haven't put all of your faith in Jesus Christ yet.

And then people respond by saying something like this: "You just want to have licence to sin!"

Well, better to have a licence to sin because the Bible says that if we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. And that also applies to saved people. If we didn't have a licence to sin, we would all go to hell. So good luck if you want to be without a licence.

I would not say that it is impossible to go to heaven if you do not believe OSAS. All people who are saved came to Jesus initially because of His grace, that is what they put their faith in, His grace. Once they begin to walk out their walk in Christ if they then begin to believe that works are required their initial seal of righteousness will not be removed. OSAS means you belong to Jesus even if you now believe it is by works. Once you belong to Him you belong to Him forever. The person would see diminished results while alive because it is by His righteousness that we have victory not ours but eternal security belongs to all who call upon His name regardless of our current understanding. If you’re saved you’re saved there is a walk that we go through and sometimes we become sidetracked. The law is meant to break the individual and sometimes that can take awhile but He’ll never leave you during that process.

 

[disciple Clint]

So we are not saved by doing works, but if you don't do any works, then you are not saved by not doing any works? My head hurts...

lets see if I can help you.
1. read the prolog to John so that you will know who Jesus is. Bible Gateway passage: 1 John 1 - Living Bible
2. read Romans so you will know what Jesus did for us on the cross. BibleGateway - Keyword Search: Romans

 

[5thKingdom]

Those who deny the doctrine of "Once Saved Always Saved" claim that they also believe in Jesus. But if you believe that you must maintain salvation by living a good life, how is that compatible with believing in Jesus? If you must meet a certain goal to be saved, then you must have faith in yourself that you are able to meet that goal. So instead of having faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, you are having faith in yourself and your good works.

What does it mean to have faith in something? It means to trust. For example, if you have faith in your favorite football team, it means that you trust that team and you believe that the team will win. You could say: "I believe in this team!" That's kind of what it means to believe in Jesus. It means to trust Jesus that he will save you, no matter what happens in your life. It's pretty simple.

This is why it's crucial to believe in eternal security. If you believe that you can lose your salvation, then you are not saved because haven't put all of your faith in Jesus Christ yet.

And then people respond by saying something like this: "You just want to have licence to sin!"

Well, better to have a licence to sin because the Bible says that if we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. And that also applies to saved people. If we didn't have a licence to sin, we would all go to hell. So good luck if you want to be without a licence.

If the definition of being "saved" is that you have
eternal life... then, what part of ETERNAL do they
not understand.

If someone can LOSE their "eternal life"... that is only
evidence they never had "eternal life".
This is not hard.

/

 

[5thKingdom]

So we are not saved by doing works, but if you don't do any works, then you are not saved by not doing any works? My head hurts...

Let me help your head.
(1) We are not saved by works
(2) If we do not do good works we are showing "fruit"
of not ever being "indwelt".

This is not hard... good works are the "fruit" of the Saints.

/

 

[TibiasDad]

Those who deny the doctrine of "Once Saved Always Saved" claim that they also believe in Jesus. But if you believe that you must maintain salvation by living a good life, how is that compatible with believing in Jesus? If you must meet a certain goal to be saved, then you must have faith in yourself that you are able to meet that goal. So instead of having faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, you are having faith in yourself and your good works.

What does it mean to have faith in something? It means to trust. For example, if you have faith in your favorite football team, it means that you trust that team and you believe that the team will win. You could say: "I believe in this team!" That's kind of what it means to believe in Jesus. It means to trust Jesus that he will save you, no matter what happens in your life. It's pretty simple.

This is why it's crucial to believe in eternal security. If you believe that you can lose your salvation, then you are not saved because haven't put all of your faith in Jesus Christ yet.

And then people respond by saying something like this: "You just want to have licence to sin!"

Well, better to have a licence to sin because the Bible says that if we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. And that also applies to saved people. If we didn't have a licence to sin, we would all go to hell. So good luck if you want to be without a licence.

I cannot speak for those who would agree with me regarding OSAS, but from my perspective, the primary reason that I find OSAS lacking is that the numerous warning passages which warn of apostasy are meaningless and pure sophistry if one cannot possibly, under any circumstances, lose their salvation. This is especially true of the two premier examples in Hebrews 6:4-8, and 10:26-31, and 2 Peter 3:17.

Beside this, OSAS, as opposed to Perseverance of the Saints, is a much, much weaker doctrinal position. Tulip provides a logical and theological foundation for the "P" of Tulip- Perseverance. The logical necessity of "P", is established by the previous four points. There is no such foundation for OSAS. There are no explicit scriptures that say losing salvation is precluded, and, as referenced above, several that clearly imply, if not explicitly state that losing salvation is sternly warned as very possible.

Doug

 

[5thKingdom]

I cannot speak for those who would agree with me regarding OSAS, but from my perspective, the primary reason that I find OSAS lacking is that the numerous warning passages which warn of apostasy are meaningless and pure sophistry if one cannot possibly, under any circumstances, lose their salvation. This is especially true of the two premier examples in Hebrews 6:4-8, and 10:26-31, and 2 Peter 3:17.

Beside this, OSAS, as opposed to Perseverance of the Saints, is a much, much weaker doctrinal position. Tulip provides a logical and theological foundation for the "P" of Tulip- Perseverance. The logical necessity of "P", is established by the previous four points. There is no such foundation for OSAS. There are no explicit scriptures that say losing salvation is precluded, and, as referenced above, several that clearly imply, if not explicitly state that losing salvation is sternly warned as very possible.

Doug

If salvation is being indwelt and having "eternal life" (and it is)
then what PART of "eternal life" do you not understand?

Those who "fall away" are only showing they were never
really saved.

1Jn 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us;
for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have
continued with us: but they went out, that they might
be made manifest that they were not all of us.



/

 

[Gr8Grace]

I would not say that it is impossible to go to heaven if you do not believe OSAS. All people who are saved came to Jesus initially because of His grace, that is what they put their faith in, His grace. Once they begin to walk out their walk in Christ if they then begin to believe that works are required their initial seal of righteousness will not be removed. OSAS means you belong to Jesus even if you now believe it is by works. Once you belong to Him you belong to Him forever. The person would see diminished results while alive because it is by His righteousness that we have victory not ours but eternal security belongs to all who call upon His name regardless of our current understanding. If you’re saved you’re saved there is a walk that we go through and sometimes we become sidetracked. The law is meant to break the individual and sometimes that can take awhile but He’ll never leave you during that process.

Amen. Believers who truly understand His Grace are rare these day's.

 

[Gr8Grace]

Those who deny the doctrine of "Once Saved Always Saved" claim that they also believe in Jesus. But if you believe that you must maintain salvation by living a good life, how is that compatible with believing in Jesus? If you must meet a certain goal to be saved, then you must have faith in yourself that you are able to meet that goal. So instead of having faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, you are having faith in yourself and your good works.

What does it mean to have faith in something? It means to trust. For example, if you have faith in your favorite football team, it means that you trust that team and you believe that the team will win. You could say: "I believe in this team!" That's kind of what it means to believe in Jesus. It means to trust Jesus that he will save you, no matter what happens in your life. It's pretty simple.

This is why it's crucial to believe in eternal security. If you believe that you can lose your salvation, then you are not saved because haven't put all of your faith in Jesus Christ yet.

And then people respond by saying something like this: "You just want to have licence to sin!"

Well, better to have a licence to sin because the Bible says that if we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. And that also applies to saved people. If we didn't have a licence to sin, we would all go to hell. So good luck if you want to be without a licence.

John 10:28~~ His sheep never perish. The Majority of believers go off the deep end into religion and "saving themselves."~~~

Gal 3: 1You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? 2This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 3Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

So, if we are faithless He remains faithful.........Because we can NEVER perish.Are sealed forever. Have eternal life, His life. And will not be condemned.

Many believers don't believe in eternal security( It's a shame and blasphemous to Him) But He is faithful to all believers who had a moment of clarity and trusted in Him alone.

 

[Charis55]

Amen. Believers who truly understand His Grace are rare these day's.

God is love pure perfect love. His grace is more powerful than any of us can even imagine. All who have called on His name in faith He will finish the work He has started in them. Unfortunately modern preaching has placed so much condemnation on His people that you have to debate milk/meat with a brother in the hopes they can see that love. I’m convinced that we are going into that season of great revelation, that season when He is going to overwhelm His people with His grace and love like never before. Look forward to seeing you around.

 

[5thKingdom]

I’m convinced that we are going into that season of great revelation, that season when He is going to overwhelm His people with His grace and love like never before. Look forward to seeing you around.

What Scripture teaches about such a time?