Imagination, Prayer, and Charismatic Influences

[Hermit76]

I am interested in discussing the influence of imagination in our lives before Orthodoxy as well as Orthodoxy's warnings against imagination.

My very first "Pentecostal" experience was an emotional vision of a hand reaching down for me. It was very touching, amazing, real, and preceded several years of spiritual confusion. Pentecostals and other Protestants accept visions and imaginations as a sign of increased spirituality. They seem to seek after these visions. I was not surprised to find that Orthodoxy warns against such experiences and uses of the mind. I am finding that quieting my mind for prayer is a daunting task. I am used to letting it go and accepting the thoughts and ramblings as part of "hearing from God."

The following article issued a challenge to work harder to rid myself of those old tendencies and influences. I would like to hear your thoughts.

Please take note that this is the Orthodox Forum. Please respect the rules of posting.

Mental Imagery in Eastern Orthodox Private Devotion

 

[Lukaris]

I attended a 4 Square P. Church for about 7 months before becoming Orthodox. Although there was charismatic tendencies there it was not really overwhelming and I never experienced signs or tongues. These were not a prerequisite to joining either.

There seemed to be more emphasis on street ministry. They worked with a ministry called New York City Relief which ( I think) had an association with the late Dave Wilkerson; I went on a couple of trips to NYC. Interestingly Fr Anthony Coniaris briefly & favorably mentions Wilkerson in his book on the Orthodox Church.

One other thing, the Pastor there actually had a silent prayer group that met Saturday evenings. I went a few times and nothing beyond a whisper was desired. The pastor seemed to practice something close to the Jesus Prayer; he would say, “Lord Jesus” in repititions. It was ok really.

 

[Hermit76]

I attended a 4 Square P. Church for about 7 months before becoming Orthodox. Although there was charismatic tendencies there it was not really overwhelming and I never experienced signs or tongues. These were not a prerequisite to joining either.

There seemed to be more emphasis on street ministry. They worked with a ministry called New York City Relief which ( I think) had an association with the late Dave Wilkerson; I went on a couple of trips to NYC. Interestingly Fr Anthony Coniaris briefly & favorably mentions Wilkerson in his book on the Orthodox Church.

One other thing, the Pastor there actually had a silent prayer group that met Saturday evenings. I went a few times and nothing beyond a whisper was desired. The pastor seemed to practice something close to the Jesus Prayer; he would say, “Lord Jesus” in repititions. It was ok really.

I started Pentecostal in the Assemblies of God. I found a variety of experiences, not all bad. I also found quite a focus on street ministry. I loved doing street ministry.

 

[Lukaris]

I agree that the tendency towards visions seems more a distraction than actually praying. All the same, I choose not to comment about anyone’s vision unless it is crucial to discern. Even the Orthodox visions in the article I shy away from. Prayer for me is intercessory by the commandments ( the Lord’s Prayer) and for repentance of my sin (the Jesus Prayer sparingly).

Btw, good article.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I came from the Catholic Church. Thankfully no weird ecstatic charisma and jumping around petting rattlesnakes, just a heavy dose of guilt, legalism, boredom, and bad modernist Liturgies!

 

[Lukaris]

I think one good observation of an Orthodox “vision” is from St Theodoros ( the great ascetic, 7th-9th century?, records are uneven): “Love has fittingly been called the citadel of the virtues, the sum of the Law and the prophets ( cf. Matthew 22:40 ; Romans 13:10 ). So let us make every effort until we attain it. Through love we shall shake off the tyranny of the passions and rise to heaven, lifted up on the wings of the virtues; and we shall see God, so far as this is possible for human nature.”

Philokalia Vol.2 ; St. Theodoros,great ascetic, A Century of Spiritual Texts, #82.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I briefly was an evangelical. while the friends from the parish were great, I went for a service and it was so chaotic I said never again.

 

[Andrei D]

For someone who was told to avoid imagining things while praying because "demons can come through" ever since I could talk, this is scary stuff.

My take is still the same: if really highly advanced hesychasts are afraid of visions and creeping delusion, then we mere faithful who are embalmed, for lack of a better word, in passions, should be really careful with anything that is "unsober" in the slightest. At the very least, be really on the lookout for deep, sometimes hard to detect *desire* or *expectation* of "something" happening. That's always the first problem. Stop, confess, ask for advice right away if you have any of that. Especially true for lay people who "overdo" the Jesus prayer with breathing techniques, navel gazing and other "fancy" monachic stuff expecting some instant illumination.. can literally be dangerous.

 

[~Anastasia~]

My background is pretty varied prior to becoming Orthodox.

I'm not sure how much discussion you want.

I read books on prayer and other topics before getting a good foundation in my faith as an adult - without discrimination (I knew no better), I read works variously by Orthodox monastics, Catholic monastics, mystics, and reformers. And I put it all into practice, with no guidance. I wish those books had been printed with a warning.

I did not purposely create images in my mind, but I had many kinds of them, that I tried to understand and fit within the frame of reference I was given, but I know full well now that I made mistakes.

It was due to "experiences" and the fact that my Baptist denomination denied they ever happened that I sought out the Pentecostals for understanding.

The problem there is that I received too much praise and was thought very "spiritual" for the sake of things that happened, which is not conducive to developing humility, and further feeds into delusion. Also there was a level of expectation there, which encouraged deliberate seeking of such things. I could appreciate even now their enthusiasm, but they understood neither the dangers and so continued to encourage me along the wrong path, nor did they understand the good things God was actually doing in me (which I came to understand only years later through reading Orthodox teaching) and so while they didn't quench it totally, I learned quickly to hide such things and not speak of them.

I didn't lose my mind as a result (or maybe only temporarily lol), but I did do some VERY foolish things and developed some VERY wrong ideas of what God wanted me to do.

But accepting mental images was a big part of it. I don't think any were manufactured by myself. But I do know that for a time some of what came to me was clearly demonic, that I could tell even back then. That's the only thing I would say about the article - a thing that one has never imagined or seen can also come from demons. But perhaps the writer didn't mean to disagree on that point.