I'm tired of hearing "God wins"

VCR-2000

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I know a lot of people say "God wins" but to me this feels more like a happy-talk slogan or propaganda. I think the values of good are losing the war and if anything it appears to be growing in intensity every day. If I saw this "good" manifest materially I'll be inclined to have more faith in it.
 

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Well many may see this as a spiritual war. God does remain God, and prevails over satan's attempt to dethrone God. But as for humans what is important is that we correctly understand how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life. So we will have the life of God that God requires to live with Him in eternity on the new earth.
 
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HTacianas

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I know a lot of people say "God wins" but to me this feels more like a happy-talk slogan or propaganda. I think the values of good are losing the war and if anything it appears to be growing in intensity every day. If I saw this "good" manifest materially I'll be inclined to have more faith in it.

That's according to plan. But honestly, merely recognizing it puts you ahead of the curve. Note two things that tend to repeat themselves:

Mat 24:12 “And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.

Rev 20:8 and (Satan) will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth...

Those two things do more to strengthen my faith than probably anything else. I know ahead of time that the nations will be deceived and that lawlessness will abound. So when I see it happening it gives me hope.
 
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Lost Witness

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I know a lot of people say "God wins" but to me this feels more like a happy-talk slogan or propaganda. I think the values of good are losing the war and if anything it appears to be growing in intensity every day. If I saw this "good" manifest materially I'll be inclined to have more faith in it.
The LORD has already won.
He proclaimed the end from the beginning,
It's all just playing out now.
 
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Unqualified

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The world will be worthy of His wrath when it comes in the not to distant future. But are you in need of encouragement? Just know again that all this is according to His plan. If we are in the Beginning of Sorrows it’s going to hurt a little. Aren’t you looking forward to the rapture of the Church? It will happen just don’t get to depressed. God loves you. What do you do when you are sick or in for a bit of pain? Remember Gods peace and love. Some people are way to easily unpurposed. I know things can be intolerable for a moment, but if you are reading your Bible (?) that should keep you encouraged. If you are just a seeker you don’t believe with all your heart mind and soul.
 
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VCR-2000

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That's according to plan. But honestly, merely recognizing it puts you ahead of the curve. Note two things that tend to repeat themselves:

Mat 24:12 “And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.

Rev 20:8 and (Satan) will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth...

Those two things do more to strengthen my faith than probably anything else. I know ahead of time that the nations will be deceived and that lawlessness will abound. So when I see it happening it gives me hope.

That's according to plan. But honestly, merely recognizing it puts you ahead of the curve. Note two things that tend to repeat themselves:

Mat 24:12 “And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.

Rev 20:8 and (Satan) will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth...

Those two things do more to strengthen my faith than probably anything else. I know ahead of time that the nations will be deceived and that lawlessness will abound. So when I see it happening it gives me hope.
But I also want to see an earthly trial and punishment for them, like the Nazis had faced during Nuremberg. I want all the earthly things they touched and destroyed to be restored and rejuvinated.
 
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Lost Witness

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I wish I lived my life in another era of this earth.
That wouldn't change anything.
The outcome no matter the era ends with everyone bowing and professing Jesus is LORD.
It can be a joyous moment.
One Just needs to accept him as LORD and be saved.


Shalom Aleichem
 
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SavedByGrace3

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We talk about this every once in a while.
How would you know if God saved your life today? I mean He does not announce it on a billboard.
We may find out one day that He has saved us many times and we did not even know it.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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I wish I lived my life in another era of this earth.
That is kind of like running from a tornado. The place you run to may be in the path of the storm.
 
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Mark Quayle

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know a lot of people say "God wins" but to me this feels more like a happy-talk slogan or propaganda. I think the values of good are losing the war and if anything it appears to be growing in intensity every day. If I saw this "good" manifest materially I'll be inclined to have more faith in it.
We are very short-sighted.

Logically, as cause-and-effect would imply, God being First Cause, all unfortunate fact is still, intentionally, fact, but not for its own sake; instead, rather, it is so for the production of precisely what God set out from the beginning to accomplish. Sin sets itself against God, but God ordained that sin be, for GOD's own purposes. Satan, foaming at the mouth with anger and frustration, knowing that his every thought and deed just feeds right into what God has ordained from the beginning, can't help but continue down the path he has chosen. Yep --God wins.
 
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Hawkins

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God forsaw this 2000 years ago. That's why the New Covenant distinguishes people by faith, not be actions. We are in a world that no one is righteous in terms of our actions. Only those with faith can be deemed righteous at the end. God really won, by turning the measurement device from Law to Faith.
 
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FutureAndAHope

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I know a lot of people say "God wins" but to me this feels more like a happy-talk slogan or propaganda. I think the values of good are losing the war and if anything it appears to be growing in intensity every day. If I saw this "good" manifest materially I'll be inclined to have more faith in it.

The Bible tells us that God is love (1 John 4:8), God nature is seen in what He imparts to people:

Gal 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.

The LORD would have His creation act according to His nature. But the reality is that humankind has moved away from the nature of love, and delights in evil. This evil is not by God's doing. God has the willingness to save, and draw people to a kinder Spirit led life, but many are not willing.

Luke 13:34 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were not willing!

We see in Genisis the problem with man's heart. It was so bad that God was sorry he had created man.

Gen 6:5-6 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.

What we see is the result of that heart bent on evil. Some things are a result of man's heart, others are God's judgment on sin. Our job no matter what is going on in the world is to follow the nature of God's love, only through that will we gain eternal life.
 
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Bob Crowley

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My old Presbyterian pastor said to me once "I sometimes wonder if God wants to win", adding "He doesn't seem to help His own people much".

In another discussion, we were talking about God's alleged "love". The pastor said "I sometimes wonder if it's true. He seems to write people off pretty easily."

This world can be very discouraging for Christians, or for that matter anyone who is appalled by what seems to be the constant rise of evil.

But God's judgement catches up with us all. I know that because I've often said that the night my own father died, he appeared in my room. We talked and argued, but at the end of the episode he gave this almighty scream and disappeared. When you've seen your deceased father screaming his head off no more than about ten feet away from you, you sort of get the idea that judgment just might be real.

I think he went to Hell. If you'd seen the scream I think you would say the same thing. Now he thought he hadn't been seen, but at the end he found out he answered for the lot.

Whether God "wins" in a situation like that I don't know. Does the devil win? The reason I ask that is because at one stage my father blurted out "I always was doomed! I never really had any choice!" I argued back, even though I was an atheist at the time, saying "That can't be right!"

He replied "Oh, it's right all right, you can see that from here!" It was obvious during the whole exchange he was looking at something over my head and behind me. If I turned around to see what it was, all I could see was the bedroom wall.

But later he admitted "I was WILLING!". So he may have been predestined, but he also admitted he was "WILLING".

Judas was the "one who must be lost", but was he WILLING? It would appear so - he was prepared to hand Christ over to the chief priests, although I think he wanted to force Christ into a corner so he would use His obvious supernatural powers to get rid of the Romans. Judas had seen Christ still a storm, walk on water, curse a fig tree so it withered to the roots overnight, raise the dead, heal the deaf, dumb and blind, feed 5000 starting with a mere handful of bread and fish. He knew what Christ could do, and I think he wanted Christ to use His powers to destroy the Romans.

This leaves the question "Does God win?" when it is clear Satan has gained another human soul? I don't know. If we take the line there's a spiritual war on, then I fail to see how God can possibly win every time.

I think He often loses. There are many times that God has good plans for people, but for whatever reason they have not fulfilled them and are lost.

I suppose I'm thinking here of a young bloke (whom I didn't know - I think this happened around the same time as I joined the Presbyterian Church way back in 1982) who was riding his motor bike dangerously. The pastor said it was obvious to everybody. He said he warned him, but later wished he had used different words as he said he found that if he said something it tended to happen.

He said to the young bloke "If you don't smarten up and start riding your machine more carefully, you won't last two weeks!" He said he felt a bit guilty about the wording as he buried him two weeks to the day after warning him.

Now I'm not presuming the young bloke went to Hell, since presumably he was a Christian. But what plans God might have had for his life were thrown out the window by his sheer stupidity in the way he rode his motor bike despite being warned by the pastor. God couldn't use him for anything - he was gone.

I'll repeat - I think God often loses.
 
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I's2C

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GOD laid down laws for us to fallow to be healthy, wealthy and wise. GOD never loses; its man that loses when they don’t do things HIS way. For instance GOD says if someone murders then send them to ME and I will deal with them. HE says if someone rapes and kills a child to send them to me because the one they murdered is waiting to meet them face to face. You want peace and prosperity in society than do it GODS way or you get the garbage we have now. When you do as HE says it ceases to be among us. But what have we allowed in our society? We allowed perversion to get a foot hold to now it is in our schools, our government. You can’t turn on a TV without seeing perverted confused people. We have the leader of the free world promoting perverted confused people to spread their filth where our children think its ok. GOD set laws to fallow but time after time HIS own children have rejected HIM, taking GOD out of everything where the void is filled by evil. GOD set a plan in motion and gave man the tools and a letter how too. GOD does not interfere in anyone’s life unless they ask but if the one asking does not live the way HE tells you, don’t expect any blessings. If GOD interfered then when time of judgement comes they will say “well you interfered”. To have a free will society with fair and equal justice than what GOD did for one HE would have to do for all and that would lead to dictatorship. GOD wants your love by you freely and willingly loving HIM. If HE ordered all to love HIM; HE might as well of just created robots. Your choice to except HIM or Satan.
 
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Mark Quayle

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My old Presbyterian pastor said to me once "I sometimes wonder if God wants to win", adding "He doesn't seem to help His own people much".

In another discussion, we were talking about God's alleged "love". The pastor said "I sometimes wonder if it's true. He seems to write people off pretty easily."

This world can be very discouraging for Christians, or for that matter anyone who is appalled by what seems to be the constant rise of evil.

But God's judgement catches up with us all. I know that because I've often said that the night my own father died, he appeared in my room. We talked and argued, but at the end of the episode he gave this almighty scream and disappeared. When you've seen your deceased father screaming his head off no more than about ten feet away from you, you sort of get the idea that judgment just might be real.

I think he went to Hell. If you'd seen the scream I think you would say the same thing. Now he thought he hadn't been seen, but at the end he found out he answered for the lot.

Whether God "wins" in a situation like that I don't know. Does the devil win? The reason I ask that is because at one stage my father blurted out "I always was doomed! I never really had any choice!" I argued back, even though I was an atheist at the time, saying "That can't be right!"

He replied "Oh, it's right all right, you can see that from here!" It was obvious during the whole exchange he was looking at something over my head and behind me. If I turned around to see what it was, all I could see was the bedroom wall.

But later he admitted "I was WILLING!". So he may have been predestined, but he also admitted he was "WILLING".

Judas was the "one who must be lost", but was he WILLING? It would appear so - he was prepared to hand Christ over to the chief priests, although I think he wanted to force Christ into a corner so he would use His obvious supernatural powers to get rid of the Romans. Judas had seen Christ still a storm, walk on water, curse a fig tree so it withered to the roots overnight, raise the dead, heal the deaf, dumb and blind, feed 5000 starting with a mere handful of bread and fish. He knew what Christ could do, and I think he wanted Christ to use His powers to destroy the Romans.

This leaves the question "Does God win?" when it is clear Satan has gained another human soul? I don't know. If we take the line there's a spiritual war on, then I fail to see how God can possibly win every time.

I think He often loses. There are many times that God has good plans for people, but for whatever reason they have not fulfilled them and are lost.

I suppose I'm thinking here of a young bloke (whom I didn't know - I think this happened around the same time as I joined the Presbyterian Church way back in 1982) who was riding his motor bike dangerously. The pastor said it was obvious to everybody. He said he warned him, but later wished he had used different words as he said he found that if he said something it tended to happen.

He said to the young bloke "If you don't smarten up and start riding your machine more carefully, you won't last two weeks!" He said he felt a bit guilty about the wording as he buried him two weeks to the day after warning him.

Now I'm not presuming the young bloke went to Hell, since presumably he was a Christian. But what plans God might have had for his life were thrown out the window by his sheer stupidity in the way he rode his motor bike despite being warned by the pastor. God couldn't use him for anything - he was gone.

I'll repeat - I think God often loses.
You seem to me to assume that God intends to save everyone; therefore, if one doesn't make it to heaven, God loses. That is not a given. Retason doesn't start there, but with First Cause. If something happens, God intended it to happen when he created. Otherwise, it is mere chance that causes, and there is no such thing as chance. To say that something can happen by chance is self-contradictory.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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In the face of all adversity and contradictory evidence, we much remain in faith. That is the battle.

Hebrews 11:6 KJV
6. But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Regardless if you ever or never receive, the faith stance is always that He is and He does.

Hebrews 11:39 KJV
39. And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
 
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Bob Crowley

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You seem to me to assume that God intends to save everyone; therefore, if one doesn't make it to heaven, God loses. That is not a given. Retason doesn't start there, but with First Cause. If something happens, God intended it to happen when he created. Otherwise, it is mere chance that causes, and there is no such thing as chance. To say that something can happen by chance is self-contradictory.

Ezekiel 33:11 ►
NIV - Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?’


God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked. In addition there must be a lot of people who were not particularly evil, but who prerish anyway, those who lived their own lives without reference to God but by and large lived honorable lives.

As far as I'm concerned, God loses when a soul is lost. They're one of His children, but that's the price He pays because He's given us free will.

If God the Son was so unconcerned with the (predestined?) fate of his persecutors, why did He call on His Father to "... Forgive them. They don't know what they're doing!"
 
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Mark Quayle

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Ezekiel 33:11 ►
NIV - Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?’
What has this to do with, or against, predestination of all things?
God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked. In addition there must be a lot of people who were not particularly evil, but who prerish anyway, those who lived their own lives without reference to God but by and large lived honorable lives.
There is nobody 'not particularly evil'. Any sin is cosmic treason.
As far as I'm concerned, God loses when a soul is lost. They're one of His children, but that's the price He pays because He's given us free will.
As you have repeatedly asserted, and continue to do.
If God the Son was so unconcerned with the (predestined?) fate of his persecutors, why did He call on His Father to "... Forgive them. They don't know what they're doing!"
Apparently, being mere human, you make the logical mistake, that if God predestined something, he would be unconcerned about it? Sounds like those who criticize Reformed/ Calvinism by the notion that if everything is predestined, it will happen automatically —therefore, no effort needed on the part of the believer.

What God has predestined to happen, what God has decreed, will indeed happen. But guess HOW it happens!
 
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