I'm Presbyterian...but I've never been to a service.

[ProgressivePresbyterian]

Okay, that is a fib. I was baptized in the PC (USA) as an infant, and my parents brought my sister and I to church when I was very young, but when I was around 4 years old, they stopped going. We always identified as a Christian family, though I was the only one who attended church. I began in high school, when my curiosity was peaked. I spend several years in the Eastern Orthodox church, I joined the Roman Catholic church my first year of college, and I attended a non-denominational Evangelical church on and off for a while. (I also went to a Lutheran (LCMS) daycare when I was small, and going to services in the chapel was part of that.)

I've always been very fascinated by Christian spirituality, and the different flavors of the church universal. Only I have struggled to choose a church to which I might belong. I want to be involved in a church community and make it my home. As I've become more intellectual, I've been able to study the scriptures and assess my own convictions. I believe in the reformation and the reformed tradition - thus, going back to my Presbyterian roots seems like the most logical step. After all, what am I if not Presbyterian?

I want to ask what a Presbyterian service is like. What should I expect? How does communion work? May I participate in it, as a baptized Presbyterian? (My mother always told me communion was only a symbolic memorial, and that we don't believe in transubstantiation like the Papists do - though she didn't go to church, my mother impressed a good amount of theology upon me from very young.)

I'm interested in the traditional service. I'll be visiting the church in which I was baptized this weekend - I don't remember anything about it, but it is where my sister and I were baptized, and where my parents were married.

I'd love to know what I might experience, and how I should conduct myself. I assume one doesn't genuflect to the altar when one enters the sanctuary, and things like that. Protestantism, though it is where my roots are, is still a bit of a foreign culture to me (which is why I've joined this forum!)

Thanks for any help you can give!

 

[High Fidelity]

I'll leave it to the Presbyterians to answer, but I think you'll love it.

 

[brightlights]

Presbyterian services might differ greatly from church to church. Most Presbyterians hold to the regulative principle of worship which is not terribly different from Lutheran and even Roman services, though Roman services are going to have some extra-biblical stuff baked into their liturgy.

But a typical Presby service will go something like this:

1. Call to worship
2. Sing a hymn
3. Sing another hymn
4. Scripture reading
5. Pastoral prayer (usually administered by a ruling elder)
6. Sermon
7. Sing a hymn
8. Offeratory
9. Communion (so long as you're a member of an evangelical church you may participate)
10. Sing a hymn
11. Benediction

 

[PloverWing]

Communion (so long as you're a member of an evangelical church you may participate)

Just an information question from a non-Presbyterian: Is this a common restriction -- belonging to an evangelical church? Or is it sufficient to have been baptized as a Christian (i.e., in any Christian church)? Or is this something that varies from one congregation to another?

 

[brightlights]

Just an information question from a non-Presbyterian: Is this a common restriction -- belonging to an evangelical church? Or is it sufficient to have been baptized as a Christian (i.e., in any Christian church)? Or is this something that varies from one congregation to another?

It may vary from one Presbyterian denomination to another. Within a denomination the practice of "fencing the table" can vary from church to church. But according to our denomination's Book of Church Order a person coming for communion must be a member of an evangelical church and in good standing.

 

[PloverWing]

It may vary from one Presbyterian denomination to another. Within a denomination the practice of "fencing the table" can vary from church to church. But according to our denomination's Book of Church Order a person coming for communion must be a member of an evangelical church and in good standing.

Okay, thanks.
Which variety of Presbyterian is your church?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Okay, that is a fib. I was baptized in the PC (USA) as an infant, and my parents brought my sister and I to church when I was very young, but when I was around 4 years old, they stopped going. We always identified as a Christian family, though I was the only one who attended church. I began in high school, when my curiosity was peaked. I spend several years in the Eastern Orthodox church, I joined the Roman Catholic church my first year of college, and I attended a non-denominational Evangelical church on and off for a while. (I also went to a Lutheran (LCMS) daycare when I was small, and going to services in the chapel was part of that.)

I've always been very fascinated by Christian spirituality, and the different flavors of the church universal. Only I have struggled to choose a church to which I might belong. I want to be involved in a church community and make it my home. As I've become more intellectual, I've been able to study the scriptures and assess my own convictions. I believe in the reformation and the reformed tradition - thus, going back to my Presbyterian roots seems like the most logical step. After all, what am I if not Presbyterian?

I want to ask what a Presbyterian service is like. What should I expect? How does communion work? May I participate in it, as a baptized Presbyterian? (My mother always told me communion was only a symbolic memorial, and that we don't believe in transubstantiation like the Papists do - though she didn't go to church, my mother impressed a good amount of theology upon me from very young.)

I'm interested in the traditional service. I'll be visiting the church in which I was baptized this weekend - I don't remember anything about it, but it is where my sister and I were baptized, and where my parents were married.

I'd love to know what I might experience, and how I should conduct myself. I assume one doesn't genuflect to the altar when one enters the sanctuary, and things like that. Protestantism, though it is where my roots are, is still a bit of a foreign culture to me (which is why I've joined this forum!)

Thanks for any help you can give!

My hope is that you become a member of a local church. Preferably of a conservative Presbyterian variety in which the preaching is true to God's word.

I did find something rather startling about your post. Not what it contained, but what was left out. You spoke of church(es), services, and spirituality. . . but you didn't mention Christ or any desire to know Him better.

I think it's wonderful that you want to find a church home, but it would be helpful to understand how would you describe your relationship to Christ before offering advice on how to connect with His Church.

 

[hedrick]

There are several Presbyterian denominations. The PCUSA is the largest, so if you go to the nearest Presbyterian church it will probably be PCUSA. (Also, your name identifies you as progressive. In that case you should specifically verify that the church is PCUSA.) This matters because the rules for communion are different, and I think the liturgy may be a bit different as well. Most participants in this forum are from more conservative denominations.

Here’s an explanation of the typical order of worship: https://www.pcusa.org/site_media/me...p/pdfs/order_of_worship_brochure_dec_2008.pdf. The only exception I’d note is that most of the churches I’ve been in have two Scripture readings, OT and NT. That is an order for a Sunday without communion.

It used to be that communion was once a quarter, but most churches have now moved to once a month, commonly on the first Sunday of the month. Communion is typically done near the end. It’s normally based on the following historical model: Anaphora of the Apostolic Tradition - Wikipedia, except that typically there’s typically a couple of additional sections. Here’s a typical PCUSA service: https://www.pcusa.org/site_media/media/uploads/sharedcelebration/pdfs/liturgy.pdf. However it is common to put the words of institution right before the elements are distributed.

The PCUSA has open communion. (Rules on admission to communion vary across the Presbyterian denominations.) Anyone who trusts in Christ is invited to join, whatever their denomination. The invitation given by the pastor should make that clear. Technically baptism is a requirement.* Yours definitely counts. We also want to make sure people understand what it means, so children should get some instruction on the meaning before they participate. There’s no minimum age, but the requirement for some level of understanding establishes a practical minimum of 2nd grade or so. When Sunday School is held at the same time as worship, kids should be given the opportunity to leave class and participate in communion. You'll sometimes see them come back into the service after the sermon.

What you heard about the purely symbolic nature of communion does not fully represent the Presbyterian tradition. We believe that in communion we truly partake, in a spiritual way, of Christ’s body and blood. That doesn’t mean that they are physically present in the bread and wine, but that the Holy Spirit unites us with Christ. When you are handed the bread and wine, many churches will say simply “the body of Christ” and “the blood of Christ.” We think that God established the bread and wine as “means of grace,” so that through the bread and wine you are truly offered Christ’s body and blood, though in the sense I just mentioned.

The people distributing communion will normally be ordained elders and deacons. You will note that this includes women, and in some churches (including ours) teenagers.

No, we don't usually genuflect or use the sign of the cross, though there's nothing wrong with doing so. Typically the bulletin will tell you where to stand. That's about it for movement, except that there's usually a section where people are asked to greet each other.

The style of services varies from church to church, from fairly staid with a choir singing classical music, to more informal with a rock band. Some churches have more than one service with different styles. You can normally discover this from the church's web page.

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* I say technically because we sometimes have kids who fully participate in the church but are from a Baptist background, so they weren't baptized. Normally they are baptized as part of confirmation. I would advocate that they should still participate in communion.

 

[ProgressivePresbyterian]

My hope is that you become a member of a local church. Preferably of a conservative Presbyterian variety in which the preaching is true to God's word.

I did find something rather startling about your post. Not what it contained, but what was left out. You spoke of church(es), services, and spirituality. . . but you didn't mention Christ or any desire to know Him better.

I think it's wonderful that you want to find a church home, but it would be helpful to understand how would you describe your relationship to Christ before offering advice on how to connect with His Church.

I'm happy to tell you about it. I'm in a sort of recovery from quite a long time of committed Atheism. I have begun studying the Bible and praying regularly. That is why I want to start going to church again - I want to build a better relationship with Christ and let that relationship transform me. It's taken time for me to be open to faith, to intellectually believe, etc. I'd just like to attend church and bible study regularly and continue to develop spiritually, within a church community.

 

[ProgressivePresbyterian]

There are several Presbyterian denominations. The PCUSA is the largest, so if you go to the nearest Presbyterian church it will probably be PCUSA. (Also, your name identifies you as progressive. In that case you should specifically verify that the church is PCUSA.)

I know that the two Prebsyterian churches in my town are both PCUSA - and that is also my home denomination. I regret my username choice because it reveals to which side I lean - I made this account a while ago and I thought I would only lurk around, not post anything. At this point though, I would prefer a more moderate-left congregation. There may be a time when I am moved to seek a more conservative Presbyterian community, but for the time being PCUSA will do.

 

[hedrick]

Depending upon area and congregation, the PCUSA ranges from moderate conservative to quite liberal. But moderate-left is common. Within Colorado there's still a range, with Denver tending towards liberal and W Colorado conservative.

 

[ProgressivePresbyterian]

Depending upon area and congregation, the PCUSA ranges from moderate conservative to quite liberal. But moderate-left is common. Within Colorado there's still a range, with Denver tending towards liberal and W Colorado conservative.

To be quite honest, I'm one of those people who doesn't enjoy politics being spoken about from the pulpit. I am not in church to discuss my views with people. I'm not concerned which way a church leans, so long as they stick to preaching the Gospel.

 

[hedrick]

i was thinking in theological terms mote than political. but even there, differences often arent so visible in worship.

 

[ProgressivePresbyterian]

i was thinking in theological terms mote than political. but even there, differences often arent so visible in worship.

Can you please explain the distinction between liberal and conservative theology?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

I'm happy to tell you about it. I'm in a sort of recovery from quite a long time of committed Atheism. I have begun studying the Bible and praying regularly. That is why I want to start going to church again - I want to build a better relationship with Christ and let that relationship transform me. It's taken time for me to be open to faith, to intellectually believe, etc. I'd just like to attend church and bible study regularly and continue to develop spiritually, within a church community.

You will find that at a church in which the Bible is held in the highest esteem and taught from faithfully, which is why, based on your above post, I would recommend that you seek out a conservative Presbyterian church.

 

[hedrick]

Can you please explain the distinction between liberal and conservative theology?

I had a blog post that I was going to point to, but it seems to have disappeared. Roughly, liberal theology is the result of the Enlightenment, meaning that it applies critical thought to Christianity. Main differences:

* The Bible is considered a book written by humans who experienced God. But as a human report it has human limitations. Secular science and archaeology are accepted, which implies that the OT before about the time of King David is unlikely to be very accurate historically. The NT was written much closer to the events, but still has the usual problems with human reports. Not all of the books were written by their traditional or claimed authors.

* The NT letters are considered to be aimed at the specific readers. Much of what they say is useful to us. In fact Paul is the easiest witness to Christ; one interesting part of recent scholarship on Paul looks in detail at his understanding of Christ. It turns out that his theology is surprisingly similar to John’s. (This is an antidote to some claims early in the 20th Cent — which you still see in some less informed secular sources — that John’s theology was a late development influenced by Gnosticism and other non-Christian sources.) But there are questions today that the writers never had to deal with, and trying to transplant what they say to our situation “literally” can be a mistake. This affects most visibly issues related to gender, including both the role of women and gays.

* We respect the efforts of Christians through the years in bringing the Gospel to their cultures. But translating Jewish ideas to Greek metaphysics was a compromise. Our theology tends to be based more directly on the Biblical concepts. We believe in the Incarnation and Trinity, but try to formulate them in Scriptural terms, rather than with persons and essences. For example of how that works out, see these documents, with the Northern and Southern branches of the Church, respectively, before their merger: Confession of 1967, A Declaration of Faith - Introduction.

* The churches of the Reformation have traditionally tended to base theology on Paul, and have often focused on individual salvation, seen as saving people from hell. Liberal theology tends to start with Jesus’ teaching. Jesus defined the Gospel as the news that he was bringing the Kingdom of God, that we are called both to be members of it and to bring others into it, and that we will be held responsible for how we respond. Eternal life is certainly an implication, but we object to focusing too narrowly on that. Our churches try for a balance between “social action” and spirituality. We don’t always make it; some church overemphasize one or the other, but our tradition certainly does consider worship, prayer, and spiritual life essential to being Christian.

* Many of us think some traditional doctrines have weak Scriptural foundation. Presbyterians traditionally understand the atonement in terms of penal substitution. Many of us prefer understandings from earlier in Church history, or directly from Jesus and Paul. Similarly, lots of people have questions about the idea of eternal torment in hell. (That particular issue can only be pursued at CF in “Controversial Christian Theology.”) Most of us are inclusive, meaning that we think non-Christians can be saved, though a recent survey also showed a large majority saying that Christ is the only way to God.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Most of us are inclusive, meaning that we think non-Christians can be saved,

Are you being self-referential? Do you believe that?

 

[hedrick]

Are you being self-referential? Do you believe that?

yes

 

[jimmyjimmy]

yes

I wish I knew that a long time ago. I could have saved myself a lot of typing.

I think I'm done with CF.

 

[hedrick]

I wish I knew that a long time ago. I could have saved myself a lot of typing.

I think I'm done with CF.

Because there are a few liberal participants??
CF members and staff are primarily conservative. So are the participants in this forum. I'm responding only because the OP seemed to be interested specifically in the PCUSA.