I'm curious

[writewords]

Is anyone in here part of a congregation that Is part of the Missouri Synod? I am a Christian writer, journalist and reverend who is interested in learning about other denominations. I have read the Missouri sand Wisconsin Synods confessions of faith. But I would like to speak to laity too.

 

[Resha Caner]

Yes, I'm a member of the LCMS ... and a writer as well.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I'm Lutheran Church Canada; in fellowship with the LCMS.

 

[writewords]

Thank you for replying. What is the doctrinal statements regarding salvation? Are sacraments involved, or is it a grace by Faith position?

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Thank you for replying. What is the doctrinal statements regarding salvation? Are sacraments involved, or is it a grace by Faith position?

Grace by Faith... However God's grace is unlimited, and we also know from God's Word that Baptism, the Eucharist and Confession and Absolution are additional means of grace provided for us. Regarding Sacraments, the Augsburg Confession names the three above as Sacraments, however through the tightening of definitions to include direct institution by Christ and physical element(s) and Grace in the form of forgiveness and healing (spiritual and physical), identify only Baptism (water) and the Eucharist (Bread and Wine) as the two Sacraments. The other five can be called "sacramentals" and the Church retains them; Anointing of the sick, confirmation, ordination, marriage, Confession and Absolution; of these, only two convey grace; and only confession and Absolution were instituted by Christ, only the anointing of the sick has a physical element (oil).

 

[LizaMarie]

Grace by Faith... However God's grace is unlimited, and we also know from God's Word that Baptism, the Eucharist and Confession and Absolution are additional means of grace provided for us. Regarding Sacraments, the Augsburg Confession names the three above as Sacraments, however through the tightening of definitions to include direct institution by Christ and physical element(s) and Grace in the form of forgiveness and healing (spiritual and physical), identify only Baptism (water) and the Eucharist (Bread and Wine) as the two Sacraments. The other five can be called "sacramentals" and the Church retains them; Anointing of the sick, confirmation, ordination, marriage, Confession and Absolution; of these, only two convey grace; and only confession and Absolution were instituted by Christ, only the anointing of the sick has a physical element (oil).

I'm curious- do any Lutheran churches do anointing of the sick?(WELS Lutheran here) I was not aware they did, but perhaps they do. (Anointing with oil, I mean.)I realize it wouldn't be considered a sacrament. Not to derail the thread.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I'm curious- do any Lutheran churches do anointing of the sick?(WELS Lutheran here) I was not aware they did, but perhaps they do. (Anointing with oil, I mean.)I realize it wouldn't be considered a sacrament. Not to derail the thread.

Such is up to the Pastor in our Synod (LCC/LCMS), there is a published order for it in Lutheran Service Book. I would not be surprised if some WELS Pastors did as well. There is also provision for oil to be used in the baptismal rite to anoint before baptism with water. The use of oil is considered Adiaphora, and is not required.

 

[writewords]

Grace by Faith... However God's grace is unlimited, and we also know from God's Word that Baptism, the Eucharist and Confession and Absolution are additional means of grace provided for us. Regarding Sacraments, the Augsburg Confession names the three above as Sacraments, however through the tightening of definitions to include direct institution by Christ and physical element(s) and Grace in the form of forgiveness and healing (spiritual and physical), identify only Baptism (water) and the Eucharist (Bread and Wine) as the two Sacraments. The other five can be called "sacramentals" and the Church retains them; Anointing of the sick, confirmation, ordination, marriage, Confession and Absolution; of these, only two convey grace; and only confession and Absolution were instituted by Christ, only the anointing of the sick has a physical element (oil).

So is it grace by Faith alone or grace by Faith + sacraments to be saved? Or is it more like sacraments are another means of grace, but not necessarily needed to be saved?

 

[Resha Caner]

So is it grace by Faith alone or grace by Faith + sacraments to be saved? Or is it more like sacraments are another means of grace, but not necessarily needed to be saved?

I'm sure Mark will give you an answer, but my reply would be:

sola gratia
solo Christo
sola fide
sola scriptura
soli Deo gloria

Therefore, the sacraments are a blessing, not a requirement. To further emphasize that, the sacraments are not something we can do, but something God gives. For the most part, all we can do is reject them.

 

[writewords]

Thank you, brother.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I'm sure Mark will give you an answer, but my reply would be:

sola gratia
solo Christo
sola fide
sola scriptura
soli Deo gloria

Therefore, the sacraments are a blessing, not a requirement. To further emphasize that, the sacraments are not something we can do, but something God gives. For the most part, all we can do is reject them.

Well stated; there are no limits to God's Grace; the sacraments are simply means of grace. God's grace has no limits, why would we put limits on it?