I'm Back to the Forums w/o Much Change - A Salvation Army Soldier Thirsting for The Bread and Wine

[Kajiki]

Hey guys, it’s been awhile. Ya see I thought I had things figured out. I had regained the will to be in the Salvation Army. That massive amount of Theological and Church History research I was doing before had slowed down a good bit. I stopped contacting the Eastern Orthodox church I had been contacting and I stopped going to Mass entirely, not to mention stopped speaking to the Priest there with whom I’ve had many conversations and had even discussed catechumen classes. I still love the Salvation Army but I guess I’m having a bit of a relapse due to many unanswered questions. I’ve dove back into my research a lot heavier this time. I’m reading John Wesley’s works right now and I can say I agree with TSA’s doctrines and am definitely Arminian in theology. However, one thing still bugs me to no end. What biblical reasoning is there to not practice water baptism nor practice communion at all? TSA does neither. Now personally I love traditional churches, part of why I was so enamored by the catholic church and its mass, so with that in mind what should I do? Keep looking for an answer in TSA, go back to Mass, or find a different Arminian church to go to? I will never consider myself Protestant again still but I also am highly against the secularization of the church which seems to be happening in the Catholic Church right now. (The Priest didn’t even seem to believe in Adam and Eve).


For context here are two of my posts from last Fall:

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/a-protestants-first-mass.8040006/

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/why-i-left-am-leaving-the-salvation-army-and-protestantism.8039149/


I’ve had a lot more time to think on it all. I just can’t get over non-sacramental worship.

 

[Sam91]

Hey guys, it’s been awhile. Ya see I thought I had things figured out. I had regained the will to be in the Salvation Army. That massive amount of Theological and Church History research I was doing before had slowed down a good bit. I stopped contacting the Eastern Orthodox church I had been contacting and I stopped going to Mass entirely, not to mention stopped speaking to the Priest there with whom I’ve had many conversations and had even discussed catechumen classes. I still love the Salvation Army but I guess I’m having a bit of a relapse due to many unanswered questions. I’ve dove back into my research a lot heavier this time. I’m reading John Wesley’s works right now and I can say I agree with TSA’s doctrines and am definitely Arminian in theology. However, one thing still bugs me to no end. What biblical reasoning is there to not practice water baptism nor practice communion at all? TSA does neither. Now personally I love traditional churches, part of why I was so enamored by the catholic church and its mass, so with that in mind what should I do? Keep looking for an answer in TSA, go back to Mass, or find a different Arminian church to go to? I will never consider myself Protestant again still but I also am highly against the secularization of the church which seems to be happening in the Catholic Church right now. (The Priest didn’t even seem to believe in Adam and Eve).


For context here are two of my posts from last Fall:

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/a-protestants-first-mass.8040006/

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/why-i-left-am-leaving-the-salvation-army-and-protestantism.8039149/


I’ve had a lot more time to think on it all. I just can’t get over non-sacramental worship.

Hi

I wouldn't know what to suggest. I'm in a Baptist church. However, I don't agree with Calvinism. I do not know if they are Calvinists. I haven't researched Arminist views. The preacher only preaches the Bible though and has not said anything I haven't understood or that conflicts with how I read it.

For fun though why don't you try out this quiz? It might actually be useful.

Christian Denomination Selector, a SelectSmart.com Religion selector. Ask about my top result.

My latest results:

 

[Vicomte13]

However, one thing still bugs me to no end. What biblical reasoning

Once you have figured out the question you are currently researching about water baptism and communion, perhaps you should consider a different viewpoint: why do you think that BIBLICAL reasoning, specifically, is the reasoning that God wants you to take towards religious subjects and approaching and understanding him. The Muslim in the same position as you: born into a culture and a religion that tells him that everything he needs to know about God is in one book. As long as he believes that, he will peer into that book to see the truth, and insist on it. That is why he knows that we Christians are blasphemers: we place others beside God, and pretend that God is a plurality of persons - his book forbids both, so he knows for sure that we're wrong.

Now, likewise, we know we're right and he's wrong, and the easiest way to get there is through Biblical reasoning. Our book says so, his book contradicts, so it's wrong.

All of the faith, then, hangs on the book. That's why you are insisting on finding biblical reasoning, just as he insists on finding Quranic reasoning. Using that same reasoning, his co-religionists have launched wars against unbelievers, and so have ours. That is where reasoning from a book leads.

You've devoted many years to making your understanding of the religion square with the book.
Perhaps you should next ask yourself the question: why the book? And why THIS book and not THAT book? You already know the base answer: because this is the culture I was born into. That is true of all people everywhere. Why do you believe that yours is the only right one? Can you really sustain that belief?

 

[Mary7]

I cannot imagine any church not practicing water baptism or Communion. That seems very clear to me in scripture.
Google shows only these sects that do not and according to books on cults these are listed as non christian.. not conforming to the Creeds etc :
Bahai
Christian Scientists
Unitarian
Quaker
Salvation Army

I read Walter Martin's 'Kingdom of the Cults' many years ago .. very good book.
You might want to start with.. does my church line up with Christian doctrine? Does it pass all the tests? Do they believe the Nicean creed?

There is 'ruler' to go by to judge this. Things like Virgin birth , trinity etc.

 

[All4Christ]

Continue to read the Church Fathers, particularly from the first several hundred years. They are even more important imho than later theologians of any kind. Continue searching - and pray for guidance. The sacraments are needed, and they are medicine to our souls.

A quick note: You are always welcome to pick our minds over in TAW if you have any questions or just to fellowship if desired!

 

[chevyontheriver]

Hey guys, it’s been awhile. Ya see I thought I had things figured out. I had regained the will to be in the Salvation Army. That massive amount of Theological and Church History research I was doing before had slowed down a good bit. I stopped contacting the Eastern Orthodox church I had been contacting and I stopped going to Mass entirely, not to mention stopped speaking to the Priest there with whom I’ve had many conversations and had even discussed catechumen classes. I still love the Salvation Army but I guess I’m having a bit of a relapse due to many unanswered questions. I’ve dove back into my research a lot heavier this time. I’m reading John Wesley’s works right now and I can say I agree with TSA’s doctrines and am definitely Arminian in theology. However, one thing still bugs me to no end. What biblical reasoning is there to not practice water baptism nor practice communion at all? TSA does neither. Now personally I love traditional churches, part of why I was so enamored by the catholic church and its mass, so with that in mind what should I do? Keep looking for an answer in TSA, go back to Mass, or find a different Arminian church to go to? I will never consider myself Protestant again still but I also am highly against the secularization of the church which seems to be happening in the Catholic Church right now. (The Priest didn’t even seem to believe in Adam and Eve).


For context here are two of my posts from last Fall:

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/a-protestants-first-mass.8040006/

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/why-i-left-am-leaving-the-salvation-army-and-protestantism.8039149/


I’ve had a lot more time to think on it all. I just can’t get over non-sacramental worship.

You have been on quite an adventure with all of this. Here's what I often see from those who have become Catholic after having been Protestant. They appreciate their time as Protestants, where they learned the Bible and learned Christ. They don't repudiate their past, but seem to understand their Catholic faith as a completion of what they started as Protestants.

When you are ready, don't repudiate the Salvation Army so much as come back to the faith as the apostles intended it, the faith as the Fathers wrote of, the faith with the full number of sacraments.

Catholics don't do Arminian vs Calvinist. That's not our fight. Of course God is Lord but of course we have choices. We just don't see the need to be one or the other of these two polar groups.

As to Catholic 'secularization', we have a bit of that. But we also have ways to resist it. Tradition is a great stabilizer. We aren't as likely to be turned in our course overall even if we have places and pockets which are doing badly. And we have those places sadly. For example, that book you were using, 'Christ Among Us'. An inferior book in many ways. And condemned from the Vatican as deficient. Still available, but a much better source is available, tested and approved, composed from the heart of the Church, in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I suggest you pick that up and read it and then see if things settle out differently for you. The CCC has the advantage, in addition to being approved, of being based on the Fathers of the Church and being based on Scripture. It is a solid piece of Tradition in book form. Read it, and no matter what you end up deciding you will be a better Christian for it. Take your time. Whatever you do, along the way, be prayerful.

 

[Kajiki]

I am so so happy to see these familiar faces once more. I would like to add in response to Mary7 that TSA is not a cult. They do agree with the Nicean creed but have been accused of being a cult due to our uniform, the contract we sign when we become members (Soldier's Covenant or Articles of War), and not our non sacramental worship. I'm very confused by the idea that TSA is a cult in line of it following Christian Doctrine.

Here are TSA's doctrines:

We believe that the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments were given by inspiration of God, and that they only constitute the Divine rule of Christian faith and practice.

We believe that there is only one God, who is infinitely perfect, the Creator, Preserver, and Governor of all things, and who is the only proper object of religious worship.

We believe that there are three persons in the Godhead – the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, undivided in essence and co-equal in power and glory.

We believe that in the person of Jesus Christ the Divine and human natures are united, so that He is truly and properly God and truly and properly man.

We believe that our first parents were created in a state of innocency, but by their disobedience they lost their purity and happiness, and that in consequence of their fall all men have become sinners, totally depraved, and as such are justly exposed to the wrath of God.

We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ has by His suffering and death made an atonement for the whole world so that whosoever will may be saved.

We believe that repentance towards God, faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, and regeneration by the Holy Spirit, are necessary to salvation.

We believe that we are justified by grace through faith in our Lord Jesus Christ and that he that believeth hath the witness in himself.

We believe that continuance in a state of salvation depends upon continued obedient faith in Christ.

We believe that it is the privilege of all believers to be wholly sanctified, and that their whole spirit and soul and body may be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

We believe in the immortality of the soul; in the resurrection of the body; in the general judgment at the end of the world; in the eternal happiness of the righteous; and in the endless punishment of the wicked.

 

[SaNcTaMaRiA]

You are always welcome over in the Catholic forums for fellowship and questions. I would suggest lots of prayer and study. Often times the voice of God is found in the silence.

Praying for you.

 

[Albion]

...I can say I agree with TSA’s doctrines and am definitely Arminian in theology. However, one thing still bugs me to no end. What biblical reasoning is there to not practice water baptism nor practice communion at all? TSA does neither. Now personally I love traditional churches, part of why I was so enamored by the catholic church and its mass, so with that in mind what should I do? Keep looking for an answer in TSA, go back to Mass, or find a different Arminian church to go to? I will never consider myself Protestant again still but I also am highly against the secularization of the church which seems to be happening in the Catholic Church right now.

I am not sure that we want to revisit all that you touch on in your post, but it seems to me that you have, logically enough, moved away from TSAs rejection of all the sacraments. And why not? She is almost alone among the thousands of Christian denominations in having no sacraments whatsoever.

So you value liturgical worship, prefer to avoid the Social Gospel, and are an Arminian? Of course there is nothing unusual in any of this. All in all, I would say that you are describing a church such as one of the Continuing Anglican ones or possibly one of the Lutheran bodies. Unfortunately, once we get beyond them there are few churches that are not into partisan politicking but are liturgical in worship style. Sadly, it is unusual these days to find a Methodist church that is very liturgical.