I'm back (and looking for a church)

[BrAndreyu]

I made this account a while ago and was going through a rough spot in my life. That rough spot is still going, but it's getting better because for the first time in my entire life, I have seen (and accepted) responsibility for how I got myself to this point, my criminal record, etc. and I have entered into a season of repentance.

I understand now that every other time, my "Christian periods" did not stick because I was not repentant. I would go to a church for a few weeks, a few months, then go right back out into the world to do awful things to myself and other people because I wanted to live a "fast lane" lifestyle.

Well that's finished now. Finally. Christ has set me free from the things that I was allowing to pin me down because I accepted responsibility for my own actions. As a result of this, and now that the pandemic is over, I want to begin actively attending and being involved with a church-- but the problem is, I don't know where to go anymore. I was attending a United Methodist Church in town, but my ex girlfriend who I had a pretty bad falling out with goes there and is one of the singers, so I think I need to go somewhere else. I am not sure of where I should begin to attend and have been torn between just going back to the Catholic church again (which has never led to positive outcomes for me spiritually) and a few other places, one of which being a Mennonite(?) affiliated church that is part of the Evana church network (which I know nothing about).

If the members of the forum that are reading this could pray for me that I would be led to a church where I will grow through this season of repentance, it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Phronema]

Have you considered an Orthodox Church? It's similar to the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church liturgically.

You certainly have my prayers, and I pray that Christ along with His Angels will illumine your path.

 

[Tigger45]

Hi BrAndreyu

Can you give us more information for what type of church you like and dislike?

 

[chevyontheriver]

I made this account a while ago and was going through a rough spot in my life. That rough spot is still going, but it's getting better because for the first time in my entire life, I have seen (and accepted) responsibility for how I got myself to this point, my criminal record, etc. and I have entered into a season of repentance.

I understand now that every other time, my "Christian periods" did not stick because I was not repentant. I would go to a church for a few weeks, a few months, then go right back out into the world to do awful things to myself and other people because I wanted to live a "fast lane" lifestyle.

Well that's finished now. Finally. Christ has set me free from the things that I was allowing to pin me down because I accepted responsibility for my own actions. As a result of this, and now that the pandemic is over, I want to begin actively attending and being involved with a church-- but the problem is, I don't know where to go anymore. I was attending a United Methodist Church in town, but my ex girlfriend who I had a pretty bad falling out with goes there and is one of the singers, so I think I need to go somewhere else. I am not sure of where I should begin to attend and have been torn between just going back to the Catholic church again (which has never led to positive outcomes for me spiritually) and a few other places, one of which being a Mennonite(?) affiliated church that is part of the Evana church network (which I know nothing about).

If the members of the forum that are reading this could pray for me that I would be led to a church where I will grow through this season of repentance, it would be greatly appreciated.

The Catholic Church has aided innumerable saints along the way. That you have not had positive outcomes may be in how you approach being Catholic more than anything. One can be Catholic in name only, be a lukewarm Catholic, or a serious Catholic. There are all manner of ways of being a serious Catholic. Sounds like you need a way of being an accountable Christian, a balanced and stable Christian, one who has some good spiritual direction. All that is available in the Catholic Church, but nobody will twist your arm to get you there. You have to set it up. But just as with the saints, it's ready for you too.

Praying for you.

 

[BrAndreyu]

The Catholic Church has aided innumerable saints along the way. That you have not had positive outcomes may be in how you approach being Catholic more than anything.

I don't hate the Catholic church at all, so don't get me wrong. I like the fact that it feels like what I expect a church to feel like. That's what I came out of, I just don't feel like there's a lot of people in the Catholic church that even take it remotely as seriously as some of the more evangelical churches.

It's very hard to remain accountable in the Catholic church around here because it's mostly elderly people... all of the family & working aged people go to the more evangelical churches and evangelicalism has a pretty big footprint down here, so the majority of people my age go to those churches where there is the "worship" music and the teaching is relevant to their lives. There was a point in time where I went to mass every morning and none of it was ever really all that relevant to what I was dealing with in my own life, because the diocese of my area doesn't really focus on the lives of it's family & working aged parishioners... the priests don't preach on things that are relevant to my life & the diocese doesn't do that much work in the community on evangelism or anything like that, they tend to "keep it to themselves" and the people that go to mass around here are very cold & distant, the diocese won't let laypeople run any sort of bible studies or anything, so there isn't a lot of support or ability to grow as a Christian aside from going to mass as often as possible and hoping that the priest is going to touch on an issue with relevance to your life.

Again, I don't hold ill will toward the Catholic church. I know it works well for a lot of people, but I feel like the problem might be that I need to be in a more evangelical church environment in order to actually stick with it. This does in fact sort of sadden me, because I like the trappings of the Catholic church, I just feel like it's spiritually empty around here based on the problems within the diocese itself and how they treat the laypeople.

I really don't know what to do. Like I said, I'm considering going to this church affiliated with the Mennonites and seeing how that works out for me. I'd consider going back to the Catholic church because then I could go to mass every day, but it's just the lack of opportunities for laypeople under the age of 65 that really eats at me in a bad way.

 

[BrAndreyu]

Hi BrAndreyu

Can you give us more information for what type of church you like and dislike?

It's strange because like I said in the other comment, I like the fact that the Catholic Church feels like a church, but when compared to the Evangelical churches in the area, the ones that don't have the stained glass windows, holy water, candles, or images of the saints; it feels like the Holy Spirit is not there. The people seem to just be going through the motions most of the time and don't read the bible daily or put any of what they hear at mass into practice in their own lives, because the preaching from the priests is very... nebulous, for lack of a better term. It's only ever relevant to life when they talk about abortion, but there isn't a whole lot of direction from the preaching and people aren't really encouraged to read the bible on their own (I am reading the bible cover to cover right now and have been since I was in jail last year... I reached Micah today so I am almost done with the OT).

Another user has suggested that I look at the Orthodox Church. I would do this, but there isn't one in my town and I'd have to make a fairly long drive to get to one... and I don't think that they say the divine liturgy in English, as these are typically ethnic churches. Part of the reason I stopped going to the Ukr. Greek Catholic Church was because they stopped doing Mass in English and started doing it in Ukrainian. My grandparents never taught me how to speak Ukrainian, as they didn't have the best command of it either, as they were first generation Americans and although Ukrainian was somewhat spoken at home, their parents wanted them to learn English and "Be American".

Like I said previously, I'm thinking about looking into the Mennonite church but I'm not sure if I would fit in there either or if I would eventually want to have the "Church environment" that I am used to again. I guess the best thing that I can really do is pray about it and see what (if any) answers I get.

 

[Bass4Jesus]

I think all you can do is get on the Internet and find out what churches are in your (driving-distance) area, and then start checking them out in person one week at a time. Don't disqualify a church based solely on its denomination. Sometimes a church's stated denomination doesn't accurately reflect what really goes on in a service. Furthermore, some the more-conservative churches are finally realizing they've got to start appealing to younger people, or else die off with the baby boomers who currently attend, and be forced to sell the property for condo units or professional offices. Finally, don't overlook a church simply because it's located in a strip mall, next to a Chick-fil-A. You might just find a treasure in one of those.

 

[BrAndreyu]

Don't disqualify a church based solely on its denomination. Sometimes a church's stated denomination doesn't accurately reflect what really goes on in a service.

The one thing I'm trying to avoid is "shouting churches". It's not that I'm against preaching, I just don't like churches where the preachers are always screaming, especially about political issues (I cannot legally vote anymore due to a criminal record, so politics are not really important to me at all anymore). Being passionate when you're preaching is fine, but screaming from the pulpit because you're angry about something isn't the reason why I'm going to church: I'm not there to be angry about what's going on in the world, I'm going there to get away from the world for an hour or so every week. Like I'm not looking for a Jack Hyles/Hammond Baptist type church, but one that actually cares about doing good in the community for the sake of doing good, not simply going out and trying to win converts so that they get more tithes and offerings every week.

The other thing I want to stay away from, are churches that pipe their preaching in from a megachurch. I want a church that's in and of my community, with a pastor/minister/priest/etc who is from the community and is gifted enough to be able to preach on things that are relevant to what we in the area are going through rather than someone who stands back while a livestream of some famous megachurch pastor plays on a screen. I've noticed that there are more and more churches going this route in my area (piping in sermons from Churches in California, Colorado, etc) rather than the actual leader of that church delivering his own sermon. That feels too much like commoditized, fast food Christianity.

But I'll keep your suggestions in mind. Thank you for your help.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I don't hate the Catholic church at all, so don't get me wrong.

I didn't think that, so no worries.

I like the fact that it feels like what I expect a church to feel like. That's what I came out of, I just don't feel like there's a lot of people in the Catholic church that even take it remotely as seriously as some of the more evangelical churches.

There are lots of people who don't take their religion seriously. Some of those are indeed Catholics. Catholics in name only maybe, Sunday only Catholics, Catholics with a faith an inch deep. But there are also many of us who are totally serious about our faith.

It's very hard to remain accountable in the Catholic church around here because it's mostly elderly people... all of the family & working aged people go to the more evangelical churches and evangelicalism has a pretty big footprint down here, so the majority of people my age go to those churches where there is the "worship" music and the teaching is relevant to their lives. There was a point in time where I went to mass every morning and none of it was ever really all that relevant to what I was dealing with in my own life, because the diocese of my area doesn't really focus on the lives of it's family & working aged parishioners... the priests don't preach on things that are relevant to my life & the diocese doesn't do that much work in the community on evangelism or anything like that, they tend to "keep it to themselves" and the people that go to mass around here are very cold & distant, the diocese won't let laypeople run any sort of bible studies or anything, so there isn't a lot of support or ability to grow as a Christian aside from going to mass as often as possible and hoping that the priest is going to touch on an issue with relevance to your life.

Again, I don't hold ill will toward the Catholic church. I know it works well for a lot of people, but I feel like the problem might be that I need to be in a more evangelical church environment in order to actually stick with it. This does in fact sort of sadden me, because I like the trappings of the Catholic church, I just feel like it's spiritually empty around here based on the problems within the diocese itself and how they treat the laypeople.

I really don't know what to do. Like I said, I'm considering going to this church affiliated with the Mennonites and seeing how that works out for me. I'd consider going back to the Catholic church because then I could go to mass every day, but it's just the lack of opportunities for laypeople under the age of 65 that really eats at me in a bad way.

The difference between a good Catholic church and a good evangelical church will mostly come down to the Eucharist and a quiet reverence for that vs excitement. The excitement is fine but the Catholic depth of reverence lasts. Combine that with frequent confession and spiritual direction and what looks cold will appear more to be a long discipleship in the same direction.

 

[Tigger45]

It's strange because like I said in the other comment, I like the fact that the Catholic Church feels like a church, but when compared to the Evangelical churches in the area, the ones that don't have the stained glass windows, holy water, candles, or images of the saints; it feels like the Holy Spirit is not there. The people seem to just be going through the motions most of the time and don't read the bible daily or put any of what they hear at mass into practice in their own lives, because the preaching from the priests is very... nebulous, for lack of a better term. It's only ever relevant to life when they talk about abortion, but there isn't a whole lot of direction from the preaching and people aren't really encouraged to read the bible on their own (I am reading the bible cover to cover right now and have been since I was in jail last year... I reached Micah today so I am almost done with the OT).

Another user has suggested that I look at the Orthodox Church. I would do this, but there isn't one in my town and I'd have to make a fairly long drive to get to one... and I don't think that they say the divine liturgy in English, as these are typically ethnic churches. Part of the reason I stopped going to the Ukr. Greek Catholic Church was because they stopped doing Mass in English and started doing it in Ukrainian. My grandparents never taught me how to speak Ukrainian, as they didn't have the best command of it either, as they were first generation Americans and although Ukrainian was somewhat spoken at home, their parents wanted them to learn English and "Be American".

Like I said previously, I'm thinking about looking into the Mennonite church but I'm not sure if I would fit in there either or if I would eventually want to have the "Church environment" that I am used to again. I guess the best thing that I can really do is pray about it and see what (if any) answers I get.

I was baptized in the Catholic church as an infant and was raised in a nominally RC home so I'm very familiar with them. I have visited all of our local parishes and one has a priest who I really appreciate as a spiritual leader but hence there are a few RC doctrines I'm not found of which would inhibit me from joining. We have an Antiochian parish who does their services in English and in fact over half of the members are converts including both priests which helps in feeling included in the church culture. But none of that does you any good. Are there any Lutheran or Anglican churches in your local area?

 

[BrAndreyu]

Combine that with frequent confession and spiritual direction

Most of the churches in my diocese, including the one I was going to, only have reconciliation on Saturdays at around 2-3pm, which isn't a very convenient time because when I am able to actually work (I don't have a regular job, I work for cash with a friend on occasion) it's usually on Saturdays. They only run it for about an hour and sometimes you don't even get in before mass starts if it's snowbird season. It would be better if the churches would run an hour of confession every day of the week, including Sunday mornings but I doubt that a lot of people around here would go as the majority of the Catholics around here don't take the church that seriously & that has the added effect of making it more difficult for people who want to take it seriously because the priests are generally just happy that the older people are showing up for mass and then their homilies are more nebulous and academic, less relevant to real life.

This brings me to my next point: spiritual direction. My diocese simply does not have any sort of spiritual direction if you're not trying to enter the priesthood. Any sort of spiritual direction for laypeople simply doesn't exist and I think it's because our bishop doesn't want laypeople really involved with that sort of thing at all-- they aren't allowed to lead any sorts of ministries or bible studies for some weird reason that I do not understand, and the parish priests have so much to be busy with that they simply cannot act as spiritual directors. Furthermore, I think that there may (not certain) be a shortage of priests in my area. So the individual parishes aren't leading any sort of bible study or adult catechisms or anything. People just don't take it seriously, it's just a weekend and holiday thing for a lot of people around here and I know that I shouldn't make it "about me" but my ability to get spiritual direction suffers as a result and eventually I fall away.

I've been debating going back and trying to make the best of it, but the problem is that I've made a mess of my life and was in jail last year so I feel like I could benefit from some sort of spiritual mentor or something and I don't feel like I'm going to be able to find that in my diocese, which as a cradle Catholic, that really hurts because it serves to sort of prove the anti-Catholic churches around here (and I went to some of them and then left when they began bashing the Church) right about the accusations that they level.

So I really don't know what to do at this point besides pray about it and see if going back to St. Maximilian Kolbe is the right choice to make.

 

[BrAndreyu]

Are there any Lutheran or Anglican churches in your local area?

Not that I'm aware of. I mean there are, they exist but they are dying out. Both the Episcopalian church and the ELCA church are slowly dwindling into having to close as far as I know because they're mostly the elderly and aren't receiving any new blood, as people with families tend to go to churches that have the whole "worship band" thing-- something that I'm not particularly opposed to in the right conditions but the church I was going to like this was basically a weekly rock concert with a little bit of Jesus thrown in as an excuse. What made me stop going was when they started playing Mumford & Sons songs that can be "interpreted spiritually" instead of playing actual worship music and I sort of felt like their hearts were in the wrong place and that they wanted to grow the place into a contemporary megachurch rather than keeping it a United Methodist Church. As a matter of fact, I think that they may have broken away from the United Methodists now over a socio-political issue or something.

 

[Silly Uncle Wayne]

I made this account a while ago and was going through a rough spot in my life. That rough spot is still going, but it's getting better because for the first time in my entire life, I have seen (and accepted) responsibility for how I got myself to this point, my criminal record, etc. and I have entered into a season of repentance.

I understand now that every other time, my "Christian periods" did not stick because I was not repentant. I would go to a church for a few weeks, a few months, then go right back out into the world to do awful things to myself and other people because I wanted to live a "fast lane" lifestyle.

Well that's finished now. Finally. Christ has set me free from the things that I was allowing to pin me down because I accepted responsibility for my own actions. As a result of this, and now that the pandemic is over, I want to begin actively attending and being involved with a church-- but the problem is, I don't know where to go anymore. I was attending a United Methodist Church in town, but my ex girlfriend who I had a pretty bad falling out with goes there and is one of the singers, so I think I need to go somewhere else. I am not sure of where I should begin to attend and have been torn between just going back to the Catholic church again (which has never led to positive outcomes for me spiritually) and a few other places, one of which being a Mennonite(?) affiliated church that is part of the Evana church network (which I know nothing about).

If the members of the forum that are reading this could pray for me that I would be led to a church where I will grow through this season of repentance, it would be greatly appreciated.

Wherever you go, do so tentatively. The Mennonite church sounds good, as the anabaptists generally have a very loving ethos, but not knowing you or your area, it would be difficult to give solid advice.

One thing I have found positive in the past when I have been searching for a church is to ask someone where they would recommend for you.

If no-one in the church can recommend anywhere else, then either there is nowhere else... or they don't have good relationships with other churches.

A good church will try and find you the place where you will grow best. A bad church will want not want you to go anywhere else.

 

[chevyontheriver]

It's strange because like I said in the other comment, I like the fact that the Catholic Church feels like a church, but when compared to the Evangelical churches in the area, the ones that don't have the stained glass windows, holy water, candles, or images of the saints; it feels like the Holy Spirit is not there. The people seem to just be going through the motions most of the time and don't read the bible daily or put any of what they hear at mass into practice in their own lives, because the preaching from the priests is very... nebulous, for lack of a better term. It's only ever relevant to life when they talk about abortion, but there isn't a whole lot of direction from the preaching and people aren't really encouraged to read the bible on their own (I am reading the bible cover to cover right now and have been since I was in jail last year... I reached Micah today so I am almost done with the OT).

Fr. Mike Schmitz of the diocese of Duluth MN is doing a Bible in a Year podcast that might be of interest to you. Not as far as Micah yet but very informative. It is one of the most popular podcasts on earth at the moment. And good. And faithful. And free. My daughter has met this priest and says he is better than OK. My wife has listened to all of the podcasts to date. I have listened to some. Very good, and they give context to some of the more bewildering readings.
All Bible in a Year Episodes - Ascension Press Media

 

[BrAndreyu]

Thanks, I will check it out. I'm going to be through Micah tomorrow morning with my coffee & then probably go through Nahum as well. I'm honestly really enjoying the Old Testament because I hadn't read much of it before, but I'm using a NIV that doesn't have the additional books of the Catholic bible so I'm missing those (I do have a NRSV that features these books, so I may go back and read them once I am done as the only one I've read before is Wisdom of Solomon). So far my favorite book has been Judges and the most difficult one to get through was Ezekiel.

Looking forward to getting to the NT though, because the furthest I've gotten in there are the gospels and then skipped straight to Revelation. I don't think I've ever read acts, Romans, Hebrews, or any of that. I think I read Philemeon or Titus once, but won't be able to remember until I reach that point.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Most of the churches in my diocese, including the one I was going to, only have reconciliation on Saturdays at around 2-3pm, which isn't a very convenient time because when I am able to actually work (I don't have a regular job, I work for cash with a friend on occasion) it's usually on Saturdays. They only run it for about an hour and sometimes you don't even get in before mass starts if it's snowbird season. It would be better if the churches would run an hour of confession every day of the week, including Sunday mornings but I doubt that a lot of people around here would go as the majority of the Catholics around here don't take the church that seriously & that has the added effect of making it more difficult for people who want to take it seriously because the priests are generally just happy that the older people are showing up for mass and then their homilies are more nebulous and academic, less relevant to real life.

This brings me to my next point: spiritual direction. My diocese simply does not have any sort of spiritual direction if you're not trying to enter the priesthood. Any sort of spiritual direction for laypeople simply doesn't exist and I think it's because our bishop doesn't want laypeople really involved with that sort of thing at all-- they aren't allowed to lead any sorts of ministries or bible studies for some weird reason that I do not understand, and the parish priests have so much to be busy with that they simply cannot act as spiritual directors. Furthermore, I think that there may (not certain) be a shortage of priests in my area. So the individual parishes aren't leading any sort of bible study or adult catechisms or anything. People just don't take it seriously, it's just a weekend and holiday thing for a lot of people around here and I know that I shouldn't make it "about me" but my ability to get spiritual direction suffers as a result and eventually I fall away.

I've been debating going back and trying to make the best of it, but the problem is that I've made a mess of my life and was in jail last year so I feel like I could benefit from some sort of spiritual mentor or something and I don't feel like I'm going to be able to find that in my diocese, which as a cradle Catholic, that really hurts because it serves to sort of prove the anti-Catholic churches around here (and I went to some of them and then left when they began bashing the Church) right about the accusations that they level.

So I really don't know what to do at this point besides pray about it and see if going back to St. Maximilian Kolbe is the right choice to make.

I'm surprised and disappointed that your diocese will not offer spiritual direction. They should. Who is the bishop who would deny that? I think I ask that as a rhetorical question although I would like to give him a piece of my mind.

Some ideas for you nonetheless. Can you contact the prison chaplain for ideas about spiritual direction on the outside? He might have ideas. Is there a reasonable retreat house that is actually faithful somewhere nearby? If they are faithful they can do spiritual direction on days when they are not doing retreats. And of course, retreats are usually significantly about spiritual direction. If you can't afford a retreat, know that every one I have been to allows people to pay what they can. Some wealthy people have paid a great deal so poorer people like me can go. Some Jesuit retreat houses are wonderful. But some Jesuit provinces have gone off the deep end. Beware. The Minnesota and Wisconsin and Nebraska and South Dakota ones seem OK. Run from the New York ones. If there is no good retreat house near you, there is this gem:




Do It at Home Retreat
By: Fr. Andre Ravier S.J.

Paperback





Reconcilation can be by appointment. If a priest cannot figure out how you can see him by appointment then another priest should be chosen. Do look around for a good confessor. Finding one makes for much solace in the faith. If you aren't pleased, find a new one. Confession is hard enough for us to persevere in without a good priest. Find one.

Spiritual reading is important. Reading the Bible is great. Reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church is also pretty good. But you should also be reading from the saints or from good contemporary Christians. I recommend cardinal Robert Sarah. But there are so many more good faithful books at ignatius.com that you could and should explore.

 

[BrAndreyu]

For some reason that no one understands, our Bishop has a major hangup with letting laypeople do anything in the church other than run bingo games and make coffee. I couldn't tell you why, but my guess is that he doesn't want people who don't know what they're talking about teaching things that are contrary to the catechism. So the only people who are allowed to do anything like run a bible study or whatever are deacons or above, and there simply are not that many of them. I've long said that this puts too much pressure on the clergy and thus, the spiritual health of the diocese suffers as a result. I think that the only thing that laypeople are allowed to do is to teach children's catechism, and I don't even know how many kids are being raised with the sacraments like I was. I highly doubt that most Catholic teenagers even receive Confirmation now, and that makes me sad because that was a big deal for me even though I went my own way in life and ended up where I am now.

The problem with this is, then you have a bunch of people who regularly attend mass and can't tell you a thing that the church teaches or openly support "social issues" which are contrary to the teaching of the church, so we've got a lot of weekend and holiday types around here. It's sad because you figure that Florida would be a place where Catholicism was strong, considering it's unique history as opposed to other states in the union. So then for people like me who want to be serious about it, it's very difficult for us. The church I was going to also likes to make you do face to face confession, which I do not like so I actually used to go to other churches for confession so I could be behind the screen the way it used to be when I was growing up in the 90s.

I've been on a retreat before. I actually went to Harlem in advent of 2014 to stay with the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal for a week and that was a very positive experience for me. I was thinking about taking the novice vow with them at the time, but I have some mental health problems that require medicine and I can't ask the Friars to pay for meds every month when that money can be used for better things. It was truly one of the best experiences of my life and I deeply regret not being able to join them, because I think that my life would have turned out for the better and I would have avoided the problems I now have as a result of being largely directionless in life (never married, no children, no career, living with family who graciously bailed me out of jail and took me in after my girlfriend had bounced me out). I'd go on another one sometime, maybe with a different order and I think that there are ways to do them around here, I'm just not sure if they're offering any now due to the ongoing pandemic that kept our churches shut for a whole year.

That was actually the thing that killed me the most. When I got out of jail, the first thing I wanted to do was go to mass and I couldn't. I'm not even sure if they're doing mass around here again yet, I wouldn't see why they wouldn't because the restrictions have been lifted but I heard that only a certain number of people are allowed to actually attend mass. There are numerous churches in my area, I was going to St Maximilian Kolbe parish but the church I made my confirmation at, San Pedro, is still around and still the only church in my city proper. There are some others in neighboring towns, but I've never been to them and I probably can't make the drive to the Cathedral every week although I would like to see mass there sometime.

I think that had I kept going every day, I wouldn't have gotten myself in any trouble to begin with. But I do think about going back a lot, it's just the lack of support and spiritual direction that gets to me because it's very easy to find spiritual direction in the evangelical churches, but they don't feel the same as what I am used to: which is candles, stained glass, etc.

 

[Tigger45]

For some reason that no one understands, our Bishop has a major hangup with letting laypeople do anything in the church other than run bingo games and make coffee. I couldn't tell you why, but my guess is that he doesn't want people who don't know what they're talking about teaching things that are contrary to the catechism. So the only people who are allowed to do anything like run a bible study or whatever are deacons or above, and there simply are not that many of them. I've long said that this puts too much pressure on the clergy and thus, the spiritual health of the diocese suffers as a result. I think that the only thing that laypeople are allowed to do is to teach children's catechism, and I don't even know how many kids are being raised with the sacraments like I was. I highly doubt that most Catholic teenagers even receive Confirmation now, and that makes me sad because that was a big deal for me even though I went my own way in life and ended up where I am now.

The problem with this is, then you have a bunch of people who regularly attend mass and can't tell you a thing that the church teaches or openly support "social issues" which are contrary to the teaching of the church, so we've got a lot of weekend and holiday types around here. It's sad because you figure that Florida would be a place where Catholicism was strong, considering it's unique history as opposed to other states in the union. So then for people like me who want to be serious about it, it's very difficult for us. The church I was going to also likes to make you do face to face confession, which I do not like so I actually used to go to other churches for confession so I could be behind the screen the way it used to be when I was growing up in the 90s.

I've been on a retreat before. I actually went to Harlem in advent of 2014 to stay with the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal for a week and that was a very positive experience for me. I was thinking about taking the novice vow with them at the time, but I have some mental health problems that require medicine and I can't ask the Friars to pay for meds every month when that money can be used for better things. It was truly one of the best experiences of my life and I deeply regret not being able to join them, because I think that my life would have turned out for the better and I would have avoided the problems I now have as a result of being largely directionless in life (never married, no children, no career, living with family who graciously bailed me out of jail and took me in after my girlfriend had bounced me out). I'd go on another one sometime, maybe with a different order and I think that there are ways to do them around here, I'm just not sure if they're offering any now due to the ongoing pandemic that kept our churches shut for a whole year.

That was actually the thing that killed me the most. When I got out of jail, the first thing I wanted to do was go to mass and I couldn't. I'm not even sure if they're doing mass around here again yet, I wouldn't see why they wouldn't because the restrictions have been lifted but I heard that only a certain number of people are allowed to actually attend mass. There are numerous churches in my area, I was going to St Maximilian Kolbe parish but the church I made my confirmation at, San Pedro, is still around and still the only church in my city proper. There are some others in neighboring towns, but I've never been to them and I probably can't make the drive to the Cathedral every week although I would like to see mass there sometime.

I think that had I kept going every day, I wouldn't have gotten myself in any trouble to begin with. But I do think about going back a lot, it's just the lack of support and spiritual direction that gets to me because it's very easy to find spiritual direction in the evangelical churches, but they don't feel the same as what I am used to: which is candles, stained glass, etc.

If you want to attend Mass and attendance is limited they probably require you to pre-register on-line. I’ve done it many times and it’s fairly easy to do. Take a look at their website and let us know.

 

[chevyontheriver]

For some reason that no one understands, our Bishop has a major hangup with letting laypeople do anything in the church other than run bingo games and make coffee. I couldn't tell you why, but my guess is that he doesn't want people who don't know what they're talking about teaching things that are contrary to the catechism. So the only people who are allowed to do anything like run a bible study or whatever are deacons or above, and there simply are not that many of them. I've long said that this puts too much pressure on the clergy and thus, the spiritual health of the diocese suffers as a result. I think that the only thing that laypeople are allowed to do is to teach children's catechism, and I don't even know how many kids are being raised with the sacraments like I was. I highly doubt that most Catholic teenagers even receive Confirmation now, and that makes me sad because that was a big deal for me even though I went my own way in life and ended up where I am now.

The problem with this is, then you have a bunch of people who regularly attend mass and can't tell you a thing that the church teaches or openly support "social issues" which are contrary to the teaching of the church, so we've got a lot of weekend and holiday types around here. It's sad because you figure that Florida would be a place where Catholicism was strong, considering it's unique history as opposed to other states in the union. So then for people like me who want to be serious about it, it's very difficult for us. The church I was going to also likes to make you do face to face confession, which I do not like so I actually used to go to other churches for confession so I could be behind the screen the way it used to be when I was growing up in the 90s.

I've been on a retreat before. I actually went to Harlem in advent of 2014 to stay with the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal for a week and that was a very positive experience for me. I was thinking about taking the novice vow with them at the time, but I have some mental health problems that require medicine and I can't ask the Friars to pay for meds every month when that money can be used for better things. It was truly one of the best experiences of my life and I deeply regret not being able to join them, because I think that my life would have turned out for the better and I would have avoided the problems I now have as a result of being largely directionless in life (never married, no children, no career, living with family who graciously bailed me out of jail and took me in after my girlfriend had bounced me out). I'd go on another one sometime, maybe with a different order and I think that there are ways to do them around here, I'm just not sure if they're offering any now due to the ongoing pandemic that kept our churches shut for a whole year.

That was actually the thing that killed me the most. When I got out of jail, the first thing I wanted to do was go to mass and I couldn't. I'm not even sure if they're doing mass around here again yet, I wouldn't see why they wouldn't because the restrictions have been lifted but I heard that only a certain number of people are allowed to actually attend mass. There are numerous churches in my area, I was going to St Maximilian Kolbe parish but the church I made my confirmation at, San Pedro, is still around and still the only church in my city proper. There are some others in neighboring towns, but I've never been to them and I probably can't make the drive to the Cathedral every week although I would like to see mass there sometime.

I think that had I kept going every day, I wouldn't have gotten myself in any trouble to begin with. But I do think about going back a lot, it's just the lack of support and spiritual direction that gets to me because it's very easy to find spiritual direction in the evangelical churches, but they don't feel the same as what I am used to: which is candles, stained glass, etc.

Wow!

Where I am they started opening up several months ago and now there are no restrictions. After having been shut out for so many months it is so good to be back. But my goal is not to be back to any same-old-same-old but now as if time is short.

Covid has been a political disease. I know there were a lot of people who died from it so I am not trivializing it as a real disease. But it was used politically, and that doesn't make for good science or good public health. There are lots of people who have it all rather backwards even now, of all political stripes. And some bishops too timid to let God be God as if the very summit of the faith is preventing people from coming into contact with a virus.

Anyhow, I want to propose an idea. If the faith isn't vigorous where you are, consider moving to a place where it is. In other words, do not limit yourself to the small handful of churches in your immediate area. None of them may be good for you. Just consider it.

A bishop who doesn't trust laity gets ignorant laity. We have rights in canon law to a suitable presentation of the faith. We have the right to be equipped to become saints. Bishop needs to figure that out. Or get out of the way. I'm all for orthodox teaching, in fact I insist on it, but when a bishop acts like a gatekeeper he is going to have people making an end run around the gate. When he teaches the faith generously he has many allies in the faith.

 

[BrAndreyu]

If the faith isn't vigorous where you are, consider moving to a place where it is.

My mom and I are planning on moving to Upstate NY in another year or so when I get finished with probation and she retires. She's getting older and fell down last year and I had to carry her to the car and into the hospital, so after I was bailed out of jail, I decided to just move back in with her since my sister has moved to Canada with her husband-to-be and my mother has no one now.

I'm hoping that whatever diocese I am a part of up there has more going on for the laity than we have down here.

Covid has been a political disease. I know there were a lot of people who died from it so I am not trivializing it as a real disease. But it was used politically, and that doesn't make for good science or good public health.

No, I know exactly what you're talking about and I agree. Covid19 was used to shutter churches and damage American religiosity in the year 2020 by the political elements that are very anti-religion, particularly anti-Christianity. As a result, public trust in so-called "scientists" and public health officials has been irreparably damaged because they showed that yes, they are partisan and are part of a very real and incredibly dangerous agenda for this country.

I have just checked the Diocese's COVID policy: those who are fully vaccinated no longer have to wear masks and in-person mass is back. So I'm likely going to go this Saturday evening & see if my mother wants to go with me.

A bishop who doesn't trust laity gets ignorant laity. We have rights in canon law to a suitable presentation of the faith. We have the right to be equipped to become saints. Bishop needs to figure that out. Or get out of the way. I'm all for orthodox teaching, in fact I insist on it, but when a bishop acts like a gatekeeper he is going to have people making an end run around the gate. When he teaches the faith generously he has many allies in the faith.

I agree with this as well. I would love to live in an area where the church would be able to equip me with the skills and knowledge that I need to be able to live the faith boldly and courageously, unfortunately I have to work with what I've got at the moment.